What was/is your opinion of Partial Birth Abortion?

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Dara

United States

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#1
Dec 2, 2006
 
I am pro-life all the way, but was really interested in what most of the world thought about partial birth abortion. Abortion, in itself, is bad enough, but partial birth abortion is downright abominous and I don't know how someone could even think of passing a bill like that. What are your thoughts?
Dee

United States

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#3
Dec 2, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
I think it's the most heinous and barbaric crime that can be committed against a child. It's the kind of "allowable" MURDER that should be abolished completely!
Has it been abolished completely? I haven't kept up with it, though I should have. I know Bush sometime back was trying to do away with it. What do you know?
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#5
Dec 3, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think it is. I think it's still allowed under certain circumstances.
Perhaps you should actually read the news on the Supreme Court cases, Lynne. You know, instead of just guessing.
BrnAgnAtheist

Naugatuck, CT

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#6
Dec 3, 2006
 
Guessing and making up lies about it. Of course Pro-Fetus Forcers do not care about reality.

Anyone truly interested in the truth about the procedures might learn something by reading the cases.

ALSO even if D&X is banned by these decisions,(and it won't be) there will STILL be late term abortions to save the life of the mother or in the case of fetal deformity or demise. The only difference will be that the CONGRESS and evil GW BUSH will have decided which procedure is better for you and NOT your DOCTOR!

These are medical decisions to be made between the doctor and the mother/woman and no one else.

Here are the links AGAIN!

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/oral_arguments/...

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/oral_arguments/...
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#8
Dec 3, 2006
 
kristie2490 wrote:
It SHOULD NOT be legal (unless death to the Mother is eminent ~ which is VERY rarely an issue in the present Century)
Anyone who suggests that it is NOT the killing of a HUMAN baby ~ needs to have the "procedure" done on them bc they ARE NOT clearly mentally acute functioning members of a CIVIL society!
And anyone who says that it ISNT a BABY in the last trimester is a retched and disgusting LIAR!
No one wants or NEEDS to look up the PROCEDURE ~ They NEED to look up the legalities AND they need to do a quick study on fetal development!
Oh yeah ~ and asking GOD for a heart and the capability of realistic THOUGHT wouldn't hurt either!
Way to go, girl. Lynne should be along any minute now to cheer for you. Saying that no one needs to look up the procedure is quite telling. In other words, ignorance is bliss. If you haven't read the cases, then you don't know enough to comment. The type of abortion you are discussing is done to preserve the health of the woman, and there can be a number of reasons for it. You should find out what they are before accusing others of being incapable of thought.
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#9
Dec 3, 2006
 
Um, and by the way, the word isn't "eminent". Look it up.
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#15
Dec 3, 2006
 
A woman might have an abortion late in a pregnancy because:

Here they are, dear, in short form:

Her financial situation has suddenly deteriorated
She has experienced a drastic change in her relationship with the father
She did not become aware of the pregnancy until it was in its later stages
(In the case of a minor) She concealed her situation from her caretakers and they have only now become aware that she is pregnant
She faced a social, legal, or financial obstacle that prevented her from obtaining an abortion earlier in the pregnancy
A fetal abnormality has been discovered that was undetectable earlier in the pregnancy
The pregnancy has become a risk to her life or health

In fact it is safer for the woman, as you'd know if you had actually read some research. I posted the reasons why on another thread, but suffice it to say that vaginal removal is indeed less risky for a woman's health. In addition, removing the fetus intact involves less chance of damage to the woman than dismemberment, because fewer instruments are inserted into the vagina and uterus. The skull is collapsed because the cervix is not dilated as much as in birth and removing it intact would possibly cause hemorrhage and more damage to the woman's organs. I don't expect this to make a dent in your thick head, but maybe someone else reading here will be more interested in factual information than hysteria.
Denise

San Francisco, CA

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#16
Dec 3, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh bullshit, Sue. That type of "procedure" done to "preserve the health of the woman"? The baby is brought out of the birth canal BREECH, ya that's a whole lot SAFER experience for a woman than a C-section, which would preserve the life of the child as well as the mother. The entire body is birthed but the head, at which point the skull and brain are puctured etc. etc.
Ya, you are just so authoritative in speaking BS. I've noticed it's the one thing you're skilled at here.
You're a doctor now? How many of these have you performed to be such an authority on this subject?

Read the 66 pages and learn something.
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#19
Dec 3, 2006
 
kristie2490 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hum! Funny? In the PREVIOUS post ABOVE it was all about HEALTH RISKS being the ONLY reason......
On page 22 the argument re "health risks" were listed as "Preeclampsia, Plancental Previa..... or some condition ( Can anyone here say LAME!!)
And the chances of it SERIOUSLY coming down to a TRUE NEED for a PBA are SLIM SLIM SLIM!!!
Maybe someone here needs to read up on those two conditions? I just did! There are OTHER methods of control IN MOST CASES!
I find it trite how NOW you say that PBA should be an ok thing for the reasons you've stated above!!
Thats Low ~ REAL low!
Now then ~ I am quite sure that I am JUST as educated on the matter as you or BAA and I am STILL against it being "elective" and/or the "CHOICE" of the woman for those asinine reasons that you have listed above!
IN THE CASE (the very RARE case) of impending death? Then that is for the doctor and parents to decide!
Geez, lady, get a grip. I didn't make up those reasons, nor did I invent the information BAA posted. I simply copied and pasted for you, and BAA simply cited if for you. It's factual, based on statistics and research. You don't have to agree with it, but if you can't produce any evidence to the contrary, then you aren't holding up your end of the discussion. Whether you agree with the reasons women have these procedures or not, they do have them and those are the reasons. Blow your stack all you want, it doesn't change a thing, including minds. I realize you think you're well-educated, but your posts prove otherwise. You don't agree with abortion up to 23 weeks, fine. Don't have one. But these are the reasons some women, and underage girls, have them.
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#20
Dec 3, 2006
 
kristie2490 wrote:
I'll bet the two of you would advocate the killing of a 3 mo old , a 6 mo old, a 6 YEAR old - if society were to start "demanding THAT" as their RIGHT too??
You claim you are well-educated, kristi. This post doesn't bear it out.
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#22
Dec 3, 2006
 
kristie2490 wrote:
It SHOULD NOT be legal (unless death to the Mother is eminent ~ which is VERY rarely an issue in the present Century)
Anyone who suggests that it is NOT the killing of a HUMAN baby ~ needs to have the "procedure" done on them bc they ARE NOT clearly mentally acute functioning members of a CIVIL society!
And anyone who says that it ISNT a BABY in the last trimester is a retched and disgusting LIAR!
No one wants or NEEDS to look up the PROCEDURE ~ They NEED to look up the legalities AND they need to do a quick study on fetal development!
Oh yeah ~ and asking GOD for a heart and the capability of realistic THOUGHT wouldn't hurt either!
Yes, well, you might try that, hon... and it's not 'retched', dear, it's "wretched".
Denise

San Francisco, CA

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#23
Dec 3, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
<quoted text>
Denise, I'm very well aware of what partial birth abortions are. Maybe you could find a forum on manners, read it and learn something.
Lynne wrote:

The baby is brought out of the birth canal BREECH, ya that's a whole lot SAFER experience for a woman than a C-section, which would preserve the life of the child as well as the mother.

How on earth would you know this if you are not a doctor involved in any particular woman's situation?

You can deflect your ignorance all you want, but you don't know anything about every woman's particular circumstance.
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#27
Dec 3, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
<quoted text>
And no one but people like you, "dear" give a flip about your grammar and spelling lessons. Take a course on manners, "hon", it'll take you much farther in life with respect to how to interact with decent people.
Sweetie, the only people I care to interact with are folks who have more brains than the lightweights here. Take a course in anything, Lynne, and maybe you'll actually appear intelligent--it's worth a shot.
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#28
Dec 3, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
<quoted text>
Denise, you're the one who's ignorant. Try educating yourself about it and you'll see that once again, your condescension is wasted.
How about answering Denise's question, Lynne? How do you know what's less risky for the woman, if you're not a doctor? Prove your point.
Denise

San Francisco, CA

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#29
Dec 3, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
<quoted text>
Denise, you're the one who's ignorant. Try educating yourself about it and you'll see that once again, your condescension is wasted.
So what you are saying is that you know more than a doctor in any woman's given situation?

That is the point I've been making, but you want to make it all about me.

Deflection at its best; you're a master at it.

Answer the question, or we'll all assume that you think you know more than a doctor does in any woman's given situation.
Denise

San Francisco, CA

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#30
Dec 3, 2006
 
Sue wrote:
<quoted text>
How about answering Denise's question, Lynne? How do you know what's less risky for the woman, if you're not a doctor? Prove your point.


She won't.

I also doubt that if this was done via a C section that it would meet with much approval, either.

This is a procedure that should rarely happen but may be necessary is some cases.

None of us would know any of the facts in those situations, and thus would not be able to comment on any individual's circumstance.
Denise

San Francisco, CA

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#31
Dec 3, 2006
 
Here is a different viewpoint on this subject...

Another expert who has written and lectured extensively in the field is Rabbi David Feldman of the Jewish Center of Teaneck, N.J. "The point is that all abortion is brutalizing and partial birth [abortion] is more so..." said Feldman. But, he added, "it is clear in Jewish law that if the mother's life or health are threatened, then the point at which an abortion takes place does not matter.... The principle is that the mother comes first and we do everything to save her life." He went on to describe a recent case at Hackensack Hospital and Medical Center [N.J.], where the decision regarding an Orthodox woman was particularly complicated. In this particular case a Caesarean section was not desirable. "A woman who has eight children had a problem with a hydroencephalic fetus," Feldman related. "The head was too large for conventional birth, so they recommended a C-section. But she reasoned that a C-section would be adverse to the strength of the uterus for the next child. So here we have not a case of mother vs. child, but child vs. potential future children. And she said,'You must puncture the head of that hydroencephalic fetus, because his life is doomed anyway...and preclude a C-section for me, which is not dangerous to my life, but is adverse to the health and the strength of the uterus for future birth'" The woman's "rabbinic authorities agreed, and so the hospital complied," said Feldman.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/J...
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#32
Dec 3, 2006
 
Denise wrote:
<quoted text>
She won't.
I also doubt that if this was done via a C section that it would meet with much approval, either.
This is a procedure that should rarely happen but may be necessary is some cases.
None of us would know any of the facts in those situations, and thus would not be able to comment on any individual's circumstance.
Part of the problem is a complete lack of any empathy or imagination on her part. Lynne cannot possibly imagine the sort of situations some women might face in their lives. Their lives are so different from her world she can't begin to guess what life-threatening illnesses they might have, what terrible deformities the fetuses might have, or the awful choices some people are forced to make. It's beyond her scope. There are people who endure such terrible problems that force them into situations where there is no good solution, and sometimes it is because they've been careless or irresponsible or ignorant, but often it's not entirely their fault at all. It must be so comforting to sit there in judgment of others she doesn't know and never has to see. One of my favorite poems is by Robert Burns: "O ye who are so good yourselves, so righteous and so holy; ye've naught to do but mark and tell your neighbor's faults and folly; whose life is like a well-run wheel, comlete with store of water..."
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#33
Dec 3, 2006
 
Denise wrote:
Here is a different viewpoint on this subject...
Another expert who has written and lectured extensively in the field is Rabbi David Feldman of the Jewish Center of Teaneck, N.J. "The point is that all abortion is brutalizing and partial birth [abortion] is more so..." said Feldman. But, he added, "it is clear in Jewish law that if the mother's life or health are threatened, then the point at which an abortion takes place does not matter.... The principle is that the mother comes first and we do everything to save her life." He went on to describe a recent case at Hackensack Hospital and Medical Center [N.J.], where the decision regarding an Orthodox woman was particularly complicated. In this particular case a Caesarean section was not desirable. "A woman who has eight children had a problem with a hydroencephalic fetus," Feldman related. "The head was too large for conventional birth, so they recommended a C-section. But she reasoned that a C-section would be adverse to the strength of the uterus for the next child. So here we have not a case of mother vs. child, but child vs. potential future children. And she said,'You must puncture the head of that hydroencephalic fetus, because his life is doomed anyway...and preclude a C-section for me, which is not dangerous to my life, but is adverse to the health and the strength of the uterus for future birth'" The woman's "rabbinic authorities agreed, and so the hospital complied," said Feldman.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/J...
Hmm. A case for Solomon, sounds like. Okay, Lynne, what would be your solution? What would you do if this were you? Or your daugher?
Sue

Martinsburg, WV

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#34
Dec 3, 2006
 
Lynne wrote:
http://www.abortionfacts.com/l iterature/literature_9313pb.as p
Please. This is a self-described pro-life website. Can't you do better than this?

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