Catholic Church Waging War on Women a...

Catholic Church Waging War on Women and Gays

There are 219900 comments on the Fables of the reconstruction story from Oct 30, 2007, titled Catholic Church Waging War on Women and Gays. In it, Fables of the reconstruction reports that:

“Pharmacists must seek to raise people's awareness so that all human beings are protected from conception to natural death, and so that medicines truly play a therapeutic role”

Pope Benedict XVI said Monday that pharmacists have a right to use conscientious objection to avoid dispensing emergency contraception or euthanasia drugs - and told them they should also inform patients of the ... via Fables of the reconstruction

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Fables of the reconstruction.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#254322 Jan 11, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
Hello Estelle.
From my perspective, gay Catholic priests just spells dysfunction from the get-go. Not that I have anything against them, but how can they not be ashamed of themselves, if they believe what the Catholic church teaches about homosexuals?
I can't claim to understand the mindset of a gay man who decides to become a Catholic priest, but I'm guessing it involves some warped and unhealthy emotions and thinking. Not because they are gay, but because they can't help but be very aware of what the church teaches. It just seems like a bad idea to me for a person to subject themselves to this.
When you said "gays in the priesthood are ill at ease to reveal that info being gay because of the backlash they would face.." you hit the nail on the head. They shouldn't have to feel ill at ease at all, but their choice to become Catholic priests kind of locks that in... it kind of guarantees an unhealthy environment. Whether it manifests in how they are treated by others, or how they perceive themselves, it just seems like a bad idea to me.
As for the new pope, I've probably already said that I'm skeptical. If he can influence people to be more tolerant and less judgmental toward gay people, that's a good thing.. But the bottom line is, the doctrine isn't going to change.
I'm glad this pope SEEMS to be more humble and in tune with regular people, even if it's just an act... because it's a much better act for people to admire and respect than the reputation of arrogance and harsh judgment that the church had.
This pope really does seem "nicer" and "humbler," and perhaps he actually is. I just think it's interesting that he conveniently came along just when the church really desperately needed a new improved image, and pope Benedict is still alive.
Pope Francis has toned down the rhetoric somewhat and he does come across nicer.

I gather some gay priests deal with their situation differently and better than others.

The one gay priest I knew I just wish I had acquired better wisdom way back then but I was so naive.

There was a time I was even afraid he would kill himself just the way he was reacting.
Once he kept telling me over and over "I adhere to the teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, I adhere to the teachings to the Holy Roman Catholic Church, etc.."

I told him: "Father, I believe you, I believe you adhere to the teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church."

I had to calm him down Thomas. So much bad stuff happened between us and other stuff with another priest friend of his.

The bottom line here is that I stood up for myself, it was time to back off and let go before something even worst happened.

The decision to leave the Catholic Church for me was a slow process. It was not easy but it was the correct decision to make for me.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254323 Jan 13, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
God works in mysterious ways.
LOL! Yep... aha... This is the meaningless cliche one uses when we are expected to just accept things without any rational explanation. All this does is bring about more questions to which you would give this same answer. It's utterly meaningless. I don't believe there was any "god" involved in Benedict resigning and Francis being elected. If God chose popes, he'd have chosen the right one in the first place.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254324 Jan 13, 2014
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Pope Francis has toned down the rhetoric somewhat and he does come across nicer.
I gather some gay priests deal with their situation differently and better than others.
The one gay priest I knew I just wish I had acquired better wisdom way back then but I was so naive.
There was a time I was even afraid he would kill himself just the way he was reacting.
Once he kept telling me over and over "I adhere to the teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, I adhere to the teachings to the Holy Roman Catholic Church, etc.."
I told him: "Father, I believe you, I believe you adhere to the teachings of the Holy Roman Catholic Church."
I had to calm him down Thomas. So much bad stuff happened between us and other stuff with another priest friend of his.
The bottom line here is that I stood up for myself, it was time to back off and let go before something even worst happened.
The decision to leave the Catholic Church for me was a slow process. It was not easy but it was the correct decision to make for me.
I think pope Francis wants the conversation about the church to change to something positive. Much of the conversation about the church in recent years has been about the child abuse scandals, and other negative things like their anti-gay stance, their prohibitions on birth control and abortion... things like this very thread were usually the context of any discussion of the church.

To some degree it's working. There's a lot less talk about those things now and a lot more talk about what a wonderful new pope they have.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#254325 Jan 13, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
I think pope Francis wants the conversation about the church to change to something positive. Much of the conversation about the church in recent years has been about the child abuse scandals, and other negative things like their anti-gay stance, their prohibitions on birth control and abortion... things like this very thread were usually the context of any discussion of the church.
To some degree it's working. There's a lot less talk about those things now and a lot more talk about what a wonderful new pope they have.
Pope Francis is doing well in the public relation department that's for sure.

He has many Catholics as well as non-Catholics in awe of him.

Pope said it is alright for a woman to breastfed her baby in the Sistine Chapel and yet he is against birth-control and morning after pill.

I agree he wants the conversation about the church to change to something positive.

Pope Francis has manage to deflect from a lot of the major issues for now.

Pope Francis is what I would call a smooth operator. Sooner or later people will wise up or keep living on in a fairytale mode.
1362
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254326 Jan 14, 2014
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>

Pope Francis is what I would call a smooth operator. Sooner or later people will wise up or keep living on in a fairytale mode.
1362
Wise up to what?
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254327 Jan 14, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! Yep... aha... This is the meaningless cliche one uses when we are expected to just accept things without any rational explanation. All this does is bring about more questions to which you would give this same answer. It's utterly meaningless. I don't believe there was any "god" involved in Benedict resigning and Francis being elected. If God chose popes, he'd have chosen the right one in the first place.
Who is the "right" pope? Is that something that you would decide?

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#254328 Jan 14, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Wise up to what?
Ink you asked me " Wise up to what?" I believe you are referring to that part of my post when I said:

"Pope Francis is what I would call a smooth operator. Sooner or later people will wise up or keep living on in a fairytale mode:"

I use wise up in this context that people should know Pope Francis is human with his own human frailties and faults. He doesn't walk on water. He is nice and clever but he's still avoiding or side stepping many major issues that was already spoken here at this thread like dealing with women's issues and clergy abuse victims for example.

Many people are so caught up in is charismatic ways that they easy forget important other stuff Pope Francis is avoiding. That's all I'm saying.
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254329 Jan 15, 2014
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Ink you asked me " Wise up to what?" I believe you are referring to that part of my post when I said:
"Pope Francis is what I would call a smooth operator. Sooner or later people will wise up or keep living on in a fairytale mode:"
I use wise up in this context that people should know Pope Francis is human with his own human frailties and faults. He doesn't walk on water. He is nice and clever but he's still avoiding or side stepping many major issues that was already spoken here at this thread like dealing with women's issues and clergy abuse victims for example.
Many people are so caught up in is charismatic ways that they easy forget important other stuff Pope Francis is avoiding. That's all I'm saying.
The people from Argentina will tell you that the man you see is the man he is. In Argentina he rode the bus lived very humbly and walked through the ghettos when he was Cardinal Georgie as he was called.

I don't believe that he is avoiding anything. I think that is why he was elected, to take care of all the problems. That doesn't mean the Church is going to do a one ninety on Church doctrine. He is still a Catholic afterall.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254330 Jan 15, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is the "right" pope? Is that something that you would decide?
As usual, you ignore the crux of the discussion and deflect to something irrelevant instead.

I have no personal interest in who the pope is. I'm an EX catholic. To me the pope is just another person with a title, so no... I would not decide that since I don't believe the pope or any clergy speaks for any god. But you already knew that. The point was that GOD (if he existed) would be the one to decide the "right" pope, if there was such a thing.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#254331 Jan 15, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
The people from Argentina will tell you that the man you see is the man he is. In Argentina he rode the bus lived very humbly and walked through the ghettos when he was Cardinal Georgie as he was called.
I don't believe that he is avoiding anything. I think that is why he was elected, to take care of all the problems. That doesn't mean the Church is going to do a one ninety on Church doctrine. He is still a Catholic afterall.
Ink...I'm sure there are people in Argentina will tell you this present Pope when he was Cardinal in Argentina he didn't do enough to protect the victims of clergy abuse. In other words, he's just as guilty as the others in helping covering up crimes it just that he had and still has plenty of help to embellish his public image and THAT is my personal opinion.
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254332 Jan 16, 2014
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Ink...I'm sure there are people in Argentina will tell you this present Pope when he was Cardinal in Argentina he didn't do enough to protect the victims of clergy abuse. In other words, he's just as guilty as the others in helping covering up crimes it just that he had and still has plenty of help to embellish his public image and THAT is my personal opinion.
No they haven't said that and I have quite a lot of family there but you continue to think whatever fits your preconceived judgements.
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254333 Jan 16, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, you ignore the crux of the discussion and deflect to something irrelevant instead.
I have no personal interest in who the pope is. I'm an EX catholic. To me the pope is just another person with a title, so no... I would not decide that since I don't believe the pope or any clergy speaks for any god. But you already knew that. The point was that GOD (if he existed) would be the one to decide the "right" pope, if there was such a thing.
I didn't ignore the crux. My point was, who is to judge who the right pope is. Certainly not you or I. God may have who He wants in place at any given time. Whether or not someone lives up to the job is another story. God doesn't micro manage.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#254334 Jan 16, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
No they haven't said that and I have quite a lot of family there but you continue to think whatever fits your preconceived judgements.
Ink...it's obvious we are at some sort of a crossroad so to speak. You believe and say what you want and that's your right.

I had over fifty years of Catholicism and also been through many major experiences. Your journey is way different than mine. That's a gimme. The only reasonable thing to do is to agree to disagree.

Just picture us at this table in this 'Coffee Shop' you may be having a latte or a bottle water. I'm having a decaf coffee. My point is that I'm leaving my seat and moving on to another table. We might see each other again and say hello. Then again we may bump into each other and decide to go to that 'Coffee Shop' and catch up on some news.

“When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion.” &#8213; Abraham Lincoln
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254335 Jan 16, 2014
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Ink...it's obvious we are at some sort of a crossroad so to speak. You believe and say what you want and that's your right.
I had over fifty years of Catholicism and also been through many major experiences. Your journey is way different than mine. That's a gimme. The only reasonable thing to do is to agree to disagree.
Just picture us at this table in this 'Coffee Shop' you may be having a latte or a bottle water. I'm having a decaf coffee. My point is that I'm leaving my seat and moving on to another table. We might see each other again and say hello. Then again we may bump into each other and decide to go to that 'Coffee Shop' and catch up on some news.
“When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That's my religion.” &#8213; Abraham Lincoln
At least Abraham knew good from bad. Some folks don't.

You may be surprised by my personal journey. It has been as rough as anybody's but it brought me closer to God and I am grateful for that everyday. I know some people's problems drive them away.

It makes a difference on whether or not you blame God for your struggles.
Svaha

Saint Petersburg, FL

#254336 Jan 17, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
At least Abraham knew good from bad. Some folks don't.
You may be surprised by my personal journey. It has been as rough as anybody's but it brought me closer to God and I am grateful for that everyday. I know some people's problems drive them away.
It makes a difference on whether or not you blame God for your struggles.
so when you say that "Abraham knew good from bad. Some folks don't" that means that you, personally, know good from bad and it's all those other people (Tre, Estelle, myself)who don't know "good from bad". Interesting that you don't think other peoples struggles mean squat unless you say so. Good to be god isn't it:-)
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254337 Jan 17, 2014
Svaha wrote:
<quoted text>
so when you say that "Abraham knew good from bad. Some folks don't" that means that you, personally, know good from bad and it's all those other people (Tre, Estelle, myself)who don't know "good from bad". Interesting that you don't think other peoples struggles mean squat unless you say so. Good to be god isn't it:-)
I said nothing of the sort and I certainly didn't say anything personal. Don't put yourself in the middle of something that didn't refrence or involve you.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254338 Jan 20, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't ignore the crux. My point was, who is to judge who the right pope is. Certainly not you or I. God may have who He wants in place at any given time. Whether or not someone lives up to the job is another story. God doesn't micro manage.
Yes, and your reply implies that you think I WAS judging who should be pope, which I wasn't, because I could care less. And I don't believe the pope is an emissary for any god, and I'm not Catholic, so I actually think NO ONE should be pope. But I know god doesn't choose the pope, a council elects him.

Wouldn't this god know ahead of time whether someone is going to live up to the job? Isn't this god free from constraints of linear time, and doesn't he know all the past present and future? Or does your god sometimes make mistakes? Let me guess... whenever god does something that LOOKS like it might be a mistake, we simply say, "the Lord works in mysterious ways" and there is no need to explain or justify ANYTHING, EVER.
Ink

Havertown, PA

#254339 Jan 21, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and your reply implies that you think I WAS judging who should be pope, which I wasn't, because I could care less. And I don't believe the pope is an emissary for any god, and I'm not Catholic, so I actually think NO ONE should be pope. But I know god doesn't choose the pope, a council elects him.
Wouldn't this god know ahead of time whether someone is going to live up to the job? Isn't this god free from constraints of linear time, and doesn't he know all the past present and future? Or does your god sometimes make mistakes? Let me guess... whenever god does something that LOOKS like it might be a mistake, we simply say, "the Lord works in mysterious ways" and there is no need to explain or justify ANYTHING, EVER.
Lots of people say there is no God because if there was one He would make things perfect for all us humans. Since things aren't perfect there must not be a God.

People of faith would say that all God wants is for us to know Him and love Him and if we do everything else falls into place and we will survive and get stronger with each struggle. I think God has set things in place but each person with his free will will decide their own course. Of course none of us lives in a bubble and what we do affects others, sometimes for the good and sometimes horrifically.

I also believe, which you will laugh at, that through prayer sometimes the hand of God reaches down and can effect changes for the good. I also believe that Christ did initiate a new way of thinking and feeling and a new Church but I don't believe it has been true to Christ's teachings.

In the past you have said that my posts are all over the place and hard to follow. I hope I am clear here.
Sherlayne

Sparta, NJ

#254340 Jan 21, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Most people pray for important things. Most people actually pray for others not the silly drivel you are talking about.
I rarely pray for myself; just for others.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254341 Jan 22, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Lots of people say there is no God because if there was one He would make things perfect for all us humans. Since things aren't perfect there must not be a God.
People of faith would say that all God wants is for us to know Him and love Him and if we do everything else falls into place and we will survive and get stronger with each struggle. I think God has set things in place but each person with his free will will decide their own course. Of course none of us lives in a bubble and what we do affects others, sometimes for the good and sometimes horrifically.
I also believe, which you will laugh at, that through prayer sometimes the hand of God reaches down and can effect changes for the good. I also believe that Christ did initiate a new way of thinking and feeling and a new Church but I don't believe it has been true to Christ's teachings.
In the past you have said that my posts are all over the place and hard to follow. I hope I am clear here.
You do have neat and tidy explanations for most things, it seems. For myself, there are FAR more reasons to not believe in this Christian god than just "things aren't perfect." That isn't even close to accurately describing why I don't believe. It's a gross oversimplification.

Of course, you were careful not to be specific about ME, but said "lot's of people." Really? Have you really heard "lot's of people" say this, or is it just what you are assuming about "lot's of people?" Because I've never heard anyone say this.

Look... I don't really think people who believe in god or prayer are necessarily stupid. I sometimes mock things in order to show how absurd I think some beliefs are once you really think about them. I was raised to believe, and sort of did for a while just because I trusted that my parents were probably right about most things. I wasn't stupid for believing, just human.

If you believe in prayer, that's cool with me. Your belief should not be shaken, weakened or challenged by my non-belief. A prayer begins with a 50/50 chance of being answered. From there the odds go either up or down, depending on what you're asking for. If things go the way you hoped, that doesn't mean that any god "blessed" you with these positive results... that's just the way things turned out, And if things don't go your way, it doesn't mean any god decided anything at all.That's my belief.

For me, it seems about equal to believing in rubbing a magic lamp and a genie will grant your wishes... or any other ancient fairytale or superstition. For me, there is nothing that makes Christian beliefs any more valid or believable than any other beliefs. For me, if I'm going to center my life around fantastic fictional characters and stories, I'd like to choose them for myself rather than have other people dictate to me what I should believe and how I should live my life.

I know I've said things like "for me" a lot here... it's because I'm speaking for myself and not "lots of people."

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Abortion Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Miss Jenny Abortion Procedure (Apr '14) 6 hr kemi 58
News S.C. Gov. Haley signs bill outlawing most abort... 9 hr Retired SOF 145
News Meet the retired nurse who pays women not to ha... 16 hr cpeter1313 1
News Abortion rights advocates: Illuminate meant to ... (Aug '13) Jun 21 xoxo80 49
News Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision (Jan '08) Jun 16 ThomasA 311,316
News Ohio ACLU concerned over buffer zone around abo... Jun 16 cpeter1313 1
News Abortion is the Biggest Single Negative Force o... Jun 14 J Worthington Sno... 3
More from around the web