Conscience and conflict

With the coming elections, the Catholic Bishops will again be issuing a letter on "Faithful Citizenship." It has been a clear statement on the moral issues and not a political endorsement for years. Full Story
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rudym

Barrington, IL

#1 Feb 26, 2008
Root Causes

The loss of hope of American people dreams is the root cause of despair. People in despair do not visualize a future they care enough about to want to continue a family to proceed them. The signs are all around us. One and one half million abortions yearly, upward trends in murder and suicide,, children selling dope on corners to children, absent fathers in homes, ineffective school systems, loss of manufacturing jobs and the pay and training that went with the jobs, laws unenforced and a decline in morality, Hollywood highest award to a violent sick movie. Something is wrong in the government and moral leadership and order in America society that has led more Americans to hopelessness and the desire for personal guns to protect ourselves from ourselves. Lets work on the root causes of hopelessness in our society that creates the desire to choose murder, suicide and abourtion instesd of hope and desire for a family and future.

Since: Dec 07

United States

#2 Feb 26, 2008
since 1973 crime has gone up all over. In small towns we used to be able to keep our doors unlocked when we went to work, we used to rely on neighbors to help out when something happens. We used to wave at everybody and they would wave back, nowadays you do not dare leave your house unlocked , you do not dare trust your neighbor, you certainly can,t wave at a person going down the street, they might come back and attack you. We have so many crank heads in my small town now. We have had multiple murders too. Before 1973 this town was a pleasant place to live. Since abortion was made legal we have gone down hill so fast.
Amanda

Elk Grove Village, IL

#3 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
since 1973 crime has gone up all over. In small towns we used to be able to keep our doors unlocked when we went to work, we used to rely on neighbors to help out when something happens. We used to wave at everybody and they would wave back, nowadays you do not dare leave your house unlocked , you do not dare trust your neighbor, you certainly can,t wave at a person going down the street, they might come back and attack you. We have so many crank heads in my small town now. We have had multiple murders too. Before 1973 this town was a pleasant place to live. Since abortion was made legal we have gone down hill so fast.
I'm pretty sure it wasn't just the legalization of abortion that caused your town to go downhill so fast. There are many social issues that come into play here. How about a lagging economy? Lack of jobs? Drug abuse? Parents refusing to parent their children?

“CRITICAL THINKING -- try it.”

Since: Sep 07

Location hidden

#4 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
since 1973 crime has gone up all over. In small towns we used to be able to keep our doors unlocked when we went to work, we used to rely on neighbors to help out when something happens. We used to wave at everybody and they would wave back, nowadays you do not dare leave your house unlocked , you do not dare trust your neighbor, you certainly can,t wave at a person going down the street, they might come back and attack you. We have so many crank heads in my small town now. We have had multiple murders too. Before 1973 this town was a pleasant place to live. Since abortion was made legal we have gone down hill so fast.
Yep, the rise in crime is due to abortion. Are you familiar with cause and effect? If so, please apply to this situation and attempt to come up w/a lucid response.

Since: Dec 07

United States

#5 Feb 26, 2008
This started coincidently when Roe v wade became legal, through this law people learned not to respect life, after all abortion is getting rid of an inconveniance, well some people say why not other people who are an inconveniance, sorry your wrong, i grew up in a small town, it has changed for the worse since 1973 People could actually walk at night for miles and not get mugged. We had a terrible triple murder in a town close by in 1991 or 93 because two idiots did not respect someone. We need to respect all life. there is much more violence everywhere , we need to pay more attention to respecting life.
Amanda

Elk Grove Village, IL

#6 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
This started coincidently when Roe v wade became legal, through this law people learned not to respect life, after all abortion is getting rid of an inconveniance, well some people say why not other people who are an inconveniance, sorry your wrong, i grew up in a small town, it has changed for the worse since 1973 People could actually walk at night for miles and not get mugged. We had a terrible triple murder in a town close by in 1991 or 93 because two idiots did not respect someone. We need to respect all life. there is much more violence everywhere , we need to pay more attention to respecting life.
Um, I refer to my earlier post on this. I'm still pretty sure Roe v. Wade did not destroy your town single-handely. Have you considered economic factors? Unemployment? Education level?
cosmo kramer

Jersey City, NJ

#7 Feb 26, 2008
"My respect for the church i.e., authority and tradition, is genuine. However, my conscience (the voice of God resounding in the human heart) puts me in conflict with its teaching at times. I feel that the will of God in important matters can no longer be discerned by simple obedience alone."

Amen!

Thank you, Jim Crane, for an excellent letter.
chad_broski

Chicago, IL

#8 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
This started coincidently when Roe v wade became legal, through this law people learned not to respect life, after all abortion is getting rid of an inconveniance, well some people say why not other people who are an inconveniance, sorry your wrong, i grew up in a small town, it has changed for the worse since 1973 People could actually walk at night for miles and not get mugged. We had a terrible triple murder in a town close by in 1991 or 93 because two idiots did not respect someone. We need to respect all life. there is much more violence everywhere , we need to pay more attention to respecting life.
seems like you need a refresher course on the age-old adage that correlation does not equal causation. that is, just because two events may be correlated does not mean that one caused the other. in fact, there is a bestselling economics book that actually directly refutes your theory, in that crime rates have actually sharply declined since the legalization of abortion. the theory is that unwanted children have more of a tendency to grow up to be criminals than do children of parents who planned/wanted to have them. and this theory is backed up by mountains of statistical data, not just some half-cocked observation from your own particular small town.

there are many, many reasons why the crime rate may have increased in your particular neck of the woods that have nothing to do with abortion. and i'd suspect that the overall crime rate has actually declined, but the one grisly yet isolated incident you mention sticks out in people's minds.

yes, there are many problems we face today, and they are the result of a complicated confluence of events, culture, movements, and ideas. boiling them down to a simple explanation is attractive because it's easy. this administration is the all time king of trying to boil complex issues down to simple explanations. but that kind of problem solving doesn't work precisely because it doesn't get to the root of the problem. don't make the same mistake yourself.
JoyofLife

New Orleans, LA

#9 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
This started coincidently when Roe v wade became legal, through this law people learned not to respect life, after all abortion is getting rid of an inconveniance, well some people say why not other people who are an inconveniance, sorry your wrong, i grew up in a small town, it has changed for the worse since 1973 People could actually walk at night for miles and not get mugged. We had a terrible triple murder in a town close by in 1991 or 93 because two idiots did not respect someone. We need to respect all life. there is much more violence everywhere , we need to pay more attention to respecting life.
Yeah except projections for violent crime stats were expected to rise a lot quicker, but since Roe v. Wade those numbers were reduced... I wonder why.

Since: Dec 07

United States

#10 Feb 26, 2008
No, violence has gone up, especially in small towns.

Since: Dec 07

United States

#11 Feb 26, 2008
chad_broski wrote:
<quoted text>
seems like you need a refresher course on the age-old adage that correlation does not equal causation. that is, just because two events may be correlated does not mean that one caused the other. in fact, there is a bestselling economics book that actually directly refutes your theory, in that crime rates have actually sharply declined since the legalization of abortion. the theory is that unwanted children have more of a tendency to grow up to be criminals than do children of parents who planned/wanted to have them. and this theory is backed up by mountains of statistical data, not just some half-cocked observation from your own particular small town.
there are many, many reasons why the crime rate may have increased in your particular neck of the woods that have nothing to do with abortion. and i'd suspect that the overall crime rate has actually declined, but the one grisly yet isolated incident you mention sticks out in people's minds.
yes, there are many problems we face today, and they are the result of a complicated confluence of events, culture, movements, and ideas. boiling them down to a simple explanation is attractive because it's easy. this administration is the all time king of trying to boil complex issues down to simple explanations. but that kind of problem solving doesn't work precisely because it doesn't get to the root of the problem. don't make the same mistake yourself.
Abortion taught people not to respect life.

Since: Dec 07

United States

#12 Feb 26, 2008
C Hamilton wrote:
<quoted text>Yep, the rise in crime is due to abortion. Are you familiar with cause and effect? If so, please apply to this situation and attempt to come up w/a lucid response.
Yes it has gone up, so has immorality, women disrespecting themselves by living with a man. Women disrespect themselves by letting a man live with them without being married. Women who do that are called trailer trash.
Lily

AOL

#13 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
<quoted text>Abortion taught people not to respect life.
Abortion has taught people that they have control over their reproductive choices and that they don't have to let bible thumpers decide what they can or cannot do with their pregnancies.
Amanda

Elk Grove Village, IL

#14 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
<quoted text>Yes it has gone up, so has immorality, women disrespecting themselves by living with a man. Women disrespect themselves by letting a man live with them without being married. Women who do that are called trailer trash.
I feel bad for you that you are so narrow minded that you actually believe this. I lived with my husband for 6 months before getting married, now we're married for 7 years, have 1 son and 1 on the way. Am I trailer trash?
cosmo kramer

Jersey City, NJ

#15 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray:
roe v wade is your tidy excuse for the ills of the world. what you fail to see is the ills of the world caused roe v wade.
Lily

AOL

#16 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
<quoted text>Yes it has gone up, so has immorality, women disrespecting themselves by living with a man. Women disrespect themselves by letting a man live with them without being married. Women who do that are called trailer trash.
Is hate the only thing you spout?
cosmo kramer

Jersey City, NJ

#17 Feb 26, 2008
would Jesus call someone trailer trash? shame on you, knitter/prayer.

“Put prevention first!”

Since: Dec 06

StL

#18 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
No, violence has gone up, especially in small towns.
Yeah, because small towns used to be safe havens to lynch black people and harass them out of town.

All was not peaceful and beautiful up until 1973, don't be naive.

“Put prevention first!”

Since: Dec 06

StL

#19 Feb 26, 2008
knit and pray wrote:
<quoted text>Yes it has gone up, so has immorality, women disrespecting themselves by living with a man. Women disrespect themselves by letting a man live with them without being married. Women who do that are called trailer trash.
Seriously? I've never been called trailer trash and I've lived with a man for a long time. Between us we've got a PhD and two Masters degrees, we own a house and are professionals in our fields.

Trailer trash? And wait a second! Why I am "disrespecting myself" but letting him live with me. Isn't he "disrespecting" himself too?

We're pretty equal in the "disrespecting" I think.

“Reality is better than truth”

Since: Jun 07

Indianapolis

#20 Feb 26, 2008
You missed the entire 1960's, in other words.

Women don't need to disrespect themselves; you disrespect them enough on your own. BTW--trailer trash can be married, and are frequently christian and against abortion.
knit and pray wrote:
<quoted text>Yes it has gone up, so has immorality, women disrespecting themselves by living with a man. Women disrespect themselves by letting a man live with them without being married. Women who do that are called trailer trash.

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