Culture wars: Why gay marriage and abortion have been 'decoupled'

Jun 29, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Christian Science Monitor

Governor Rick Perry addresses a large audience in attendance at the National Right To Life Convention, Thursday in Grapevine, Texas.

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“Truly Pro-Life”

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#1
Jun 29, 2013
 
The article claims that the question of whether or not gays should marry, has more folks answering 'yes' in the last ten years, than the question of whether or not it should be legal to "...Kill Babies..."

This is because the religious right is insistent that a fetus is a 'baby' in the first place, and that when it comes to her rights, its mother should have none, in favor of granting them to the 'baby', in the second.

The reality, as far as public opinion on this score, is that young women are less concerned with their right to bodily autonomy (having gained recognition of this right long before they were born) and take it for granted as not worth fighting for, because they think they wouldn't 'ever' have an abortion. And the religious right has been far more successful at convincing young women, that embryos and fetii are already 'babies' from the moment of conception, than the prochoice movement has been in convincing them that the right to make the decision of when and whether to gestate is important.

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I'm gay. I am, and always have been, against abortion, by anyone, at anytime, for any reason. Abortion is the MURDER of innocent babies.

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Jun 29, 2013
 

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not a playa1965 wrote:
The article claims that the question of whether or not gays should marry, has more folks answering 'yes' in the last ten years, than the question of whether or not it should be legal to "...Kill Babies..."
This is because the religious right is insistent that a fetus is a 'baby' in the first place, and that when it comes to her rights, its mother should have none, in favor of granting them to the 'baby', in the second.
The reality, as far as public opinion on this score, is that young women are less concerned with their right to bodily autonomy (having gained recognition of this right long before they were born) and take it for granted as not worth fighting for, because they think they wouldn't 'ever' have an abortion. And the religious right has been far more successful at convincing young women, that embryos and fetii are already 'babies' from the moment of conception, than the prochoice movement has been in convincing them that the right to make the decision of when and whether to gestate is important.
Why do you give women so little credit when it comes to thinking for themselves?
Broseph

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Jun 29, 2013
 

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Europa Report wrote:
I'm gay. I am, and always have been, against abortion, by anyone, at anytime, for any reason. Abortion is the MURDER of innocent babies.
That's pretty easy to say, considering you'll never have to face any problems that could prompt an abortion.

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Jun 29, 2013
 

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Broseph wrote:
<quoted text>
That's pretty easy to say, considering you'll never have to face any problems that could prompt an abortion.
Lotta things are easy to say when they happen to be the TRUTH.

For instance, "I will NEVER vote for a democrat because they are Evil. PURE EVIL." There. That was easy to say !:) Because it's the TRUTH !

“Truly Pro-Life”

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Susanm wrote:
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Why do you give women so little credit when it comes to thinking for themselves?
I don't - that would be you. If they think for themselves and decide to gestate, you're fine with it...but by golly if they think for themselves, and want to abort, you advocate getting in their faces with vaginally obtained sonographic images, in an attempt to change their minds, as if you are sure they thought they were carrying a grapefruit, or a toaster, until you showed them differently.

Pffft.

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Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
Lotta things are easy to say when they happen to be the TRUTH.
For instance, "I will NEVER vote for a democrat because they are Evil. PURE EVIL." There. That was easy to say !:) Because it's the TRUTH !
yet it is the far evangelical right that continues to stand in the way of our proven techniques for reducing unwanted pregnancies, and thus the need for abortions...

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yet it is the far evangelical right that continues to stand in the way of our proven techniques for reducing unwanted pregnancies, and thus the need for abortions...
Just use effective contraception or stop having sex. It aint that hard.

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Europa Report wrote:
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Just use effective contraception or stop having sex. It aint that hard.
and we have ways of teaching that to kids, yet the far right religious cult freaks don't seem to care, they seem to want to assuage their conscience regardless of the outcomes of their actions. blind cult mentality at it's best...

you would be amazed at the misinformation young kids of sexual age have about pregnancy, contraception and safe sex practices.

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Jun 29, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>and we have ways of teaching that to kids, yet the far right religious cult freaks don't seem to care, they seem to want to assuage their conscience regardless of the outcomes of their actions. blind cult mentality at it's best...
you would be amazed at the misinformation young kids of sexual age have about pregnancy, contraception and safe sex practices.
No, I wouldn't be surprised. And I have always believed in comprehensive sex education in the public schools and private schools. I went to a private school for 5 years and public schools for the rest of my education, and I wish they had taught sex education in those schools, but they didn't.
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Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
Lotta things are easy to say when they happen to be the TRUTH.
For instance, "I will NEVER vote for a democrat because they are Evil. PURE EVIL." There. That was easy to say !:) Because it's the TRUTH !
Since when is your incredibly-simple, unethical, and biased opinion "the truth"? You essentially turned one of the hardest decisions in a woman's life into "You're a baby killer, even though I myself will never be in a bad position, so it's okay for me shamelessly judge all of women who have been there or are". Also, all democrats are evil? The same democrats that have fought to have you recognized as a citizen, within this country, are evil? Are you retarded?

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not a playa1965 wrote:
The article claims that the question of whether or not gays should marry, has more folks answering 'yes' in the last ten years, than the question of whether or not it should be legal to "...Kill Babies..."
This is because the religious right is insistent that a fetus is a 'baby' in the first place, and that when it comes to her rights, its mother should have none, in favor of granting them to the 'baby', in the second.
The reality, as far as public opinion on this score, is that young women are less concerned with their right to bodily autonomy (having gained recognition of this right long before they were born) and take it for granted as not worth fighting for, because they think they wouldn't 'ever' have an abortion. And the religious right has been far more successful at convincing young women, that embryos and fetii are already 'babies' from the moment of conception, than the prochoice movement has been in convincing them that the right to make the decision of when and whether to gestate is important.
Pro-choice is the word you use. It isn't about CHOICE it is about ABORTION. Don't candy coat it, call it what it is! Tell me that embryos or fetii ISN'T alive! Personally, I believe everyone is entitled to one mistake but ABORTIONS need to be regulated, limited and rare. Birth control is so easy to get and the one thing that works 100% of the time is by not doing it until...... fill in the blank. We have 3400 a day not a year, IN ONE DAY!! And liberals want to b*tch about guns. Show me in the Constitution were abortions are is a right. They are legal by law but NOT a right. I can show you in the Constitution were it is my RIGHT to have a gun!
Broseph

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Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
Just use effective contraception or stop having sex. It aint that hard.
Contraception doesn't always work, and education and access to contraception has been blocked in many places by people that are very far-right. Also, people that rape and molest don't tend ton use protection.

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Jun 29, 2013
 
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wouldn't be surprised. And I have always believed in comprehensive sex education in the public schools and private schools. I went to a private school for 5 years and public schools for the rest of my education, and I wish they had taught sex education in those schools, but they didn't.
yet this si what most democrats push for, and are blocked on by the far right...yet you said democrats are pure evil, yet you support the same ideas and program they do???

please explain the contradiction in your statements...

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>yet this si what most democrats push for, and are blocked on by the far right...yet you said democrats are pure evil, yet you support the same ideas and program they do???
please explain the contradiction in your statements...
I am NOT a supporter of the "far right" or the "religious right".

I'm a Libertarian, and a church-going Christian whose denominations I belong to, ELCA & UCC, are very support of equal rights for LGBT people.

I'm a registered Libertarian, and I believe that the Democrats are on equal footing with Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Uncle Joe Stalin, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, and The Obamaniac. Add those things all together ( a + b + c + d + e + f) and you get (=) Evil. PURE EVIL.

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#16
Jun 29, 2013
 
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
I am NOT a supporter of the "far right" or the "religious right".
I'm a Libertarian, and a church-going Christian whose denominations I belong to, ELCA & UCC, are very support of equal rights for LGBT people.
I'm a registered Libertarian, and I believe that the Democrats are on equal footing with Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Uncle Joe Stalin, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, and The Obamaniac. Add those things all together ( a + b + c + d + e + f) and you get (=) Evil. PURE EVIL.
i never suggested you are affiliated with the far right.

please explain the contradiction of your statements that the democrats are pure evil, yet you support the same programs they do?

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i never suggested you are affiliated with the far right.
please explain the contradiction of your statements that the democrats are pure evil, yet you support the same programs they do?
It is doubtful I support ANY government program they do. I'm a Libertarian and a Constitutional Strict Constructionist. The fact that my support for equal rights for LGBT people, such as myself, and the fact that some Democrats support that, is an accidental coincidence, and our support is based on opposing viewpoints of what the U.S. Constitution says and means.

The U.S. constitution MEANS what it SAYS. And SAYS what it MEANS. NO more. And NO less. Don't like what's in there, or notice something missing ? THEN CHANGE IT ! It's been changed before, ya know.

“Truly Pro-Life”

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#18
Jun 29, 2013
 
Retired SOF wrote:
<quoted text>
Pro-choice is the word you use. It isn't about CHOICE it is about ABORTION. Don't candy coat it, call it what it is! Tell me that embryos or fetii ISN'T alive! Personally, I believe everyone is entitled to one mistake but ABORTIONS need to be regulated, limited and rare. Birth control is so easy to get and the one thing that works 100% of the time is by not doing it until...... fill in the blank. We have 3400 a day not a year, IN ONE DAY!! And liberals want to b*tch about guns. Show me in the Constitution were abortions are is a right. They are legal by law but NOT a right. I can show you in the Constitution were it is my RIGHT to have a gun!
I can show you in three different amendments that I, as a citizen, have the same right to make my own medical choices as any other citizen, including you. And the irony of someone who claims to be pro-life, and who wants to remove the rights of any individual to direct their own life, yelling 'Don't take away my gun rights' is too obvious to discuss.

“Truly Pro-Life”

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Jun 29, 2013
 

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Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
I am NOT a supporter of the "far right" or the "religious right".
I'm a Libertarian, and a church-going Christian whose denominations I belong to, ELCA & UCC, are very support of equal rights for LGBT people.
I'm a registered Libertarian, and I believe that the Democrats are on equal footing with Karl Marx, Vladimir Lenin, Uncle Joe Stalin, Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, and The Obamaniac. Add those things all together ( a + b + c + d + e + f) and you get (=) Evil. PURE EVIL.
Oh goodie - another selective libertarian, who desires to remove the individual rights to bodily autonomy, personal risk assessment, and self defense from every INDIVIDUAL pregnant woman.

Pah!!
I spit on your version of Libertarianism, you cherry-picking hypocrite.

“Truly Pro-Life”

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#20
Jun 29, 2013
 
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
Just use effective contraception or stop having sex. It aint that hard.
Just support the Public dissemination of a thorough, complete sex education, and the distribution of contraceptives to all who need them, through public means...it ain't that hard.

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