Intellectual dishonesty at the heart ...

Intellectual dishonesty at the heart of abortion law

There are 77 comments on the The Baltimore Sun story from Mar 4, 2013, titled Intellectual dishonesty at the heart of abortion law. In it, The Baltimore Sun reports that:

It is long past time to question the appalling intellectual dishonesty that has led us to kill 55 million children through abortion in the past 40 years.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Baltimore Sun.

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“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#1 Mar 4, 2013
Seems to me, that boiled down, their whole argument falls back to "woman's only use is bearing children, and women have no rights to bodily autonomy while pregnant...and perhaps when not."

Frankly, I don't give a rat's behind WHEN a fetus is considered a human - no human has the right to conscript the organs of another for his/her survival. Abortion is self-defense. As a born human, I have the right to medical and bodily autonomy, self-defense, and personal risk assessment - therefore, I have the fundamental right to decide whether or not to attempt gestation of any given pregnancy. Period.
Bob

Falls City, NE

#2 Mar 4, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
Seems to me, that boiled down, their whole argument falls back to "woman's only use is bearing children, and women have no rights to bodily autonomy while pregnant...and perhaps when not."
Frankly, I don't give a rat's behind WHEN a fetus is considered a human - no human has the right to conscript the organs of another for his/her survival. Abortion is self-defense. As a born human, I have the right to medical and bodily autonomy, self-defense, and personal risk assessment - therefore, I have the fundamental right to decide whether or not to attempt gestation of any given pregnancy. Period.
Dang, your sick.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#3 Mar 4, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>Dang, your sick.
Being female, and recognizing one's fundamental rights, are not sick. Legally obligating women to attempt gestation against our will? Now THAT'S sick.
Ocean56

AOL

#4 Mar 5, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
Frankly, I don't give a rat's behind WHEN a fetus is considered a human - no human has the right to conscript the organs of another for his/her survival. Abortion is self-defense. As a born human, I have the right to medical and bodily autonomy, self-defense, and personal risk assessment - therefore, I have the fundamental right to decide whether or not to attempt gestation of any given pregnancy. Period.
Exactly. Personally, I think the question of when a fetus is considered a human has been debated constantly because in reality, no one REALLY knows the answer. It is a matter of belief and opinion, and we all know that beliefs and opinions AREN'T facts.

ALL women have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to continue a pregnancy. The problem these regressive anti-choice male imbeciles has with that is their inability to accept that WOMEN are fully capable of making our own sexual and reproductive decisions without their permission or approval. Too bad for them. It isn't THEIR call to make.

Morgana 9

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

Since: Sep 08

Minneapolis

#5 Mar 5, 2013
Bob wrote:
<quoted text>Dang, your sick.
Get back to us Bob when you become pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy or even a wanted one. OH...and don't forget to label and get in the face of some of your male pals who have skipped on their child support, remember to tell them how selfish they are and how obligated they should feel. Clean up your own gender BOB, until you can accomplish that your opinion is moot.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#6 Mar 5, 2013
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Exactly. Personally, I think the question of when a fetus is considered a human has been debated constantly because in reality, no one REALLY knows the answer. It is a matter of belief and opinion, and we all know that beliefs and opinions AREN'T facts.
ALL women have the right to decide for themselves whether or not to continue a pregnancy. The problem these regressive anti-choice male imbeciles has with that is their inability to accept that WOMEN are fully capable of making our own sexual and reproductive decisions without their permission or approval. Too bad for them. It isn't THEIR call to make.
What really gets my panties in a wad, is that these so-called 'pro-life' imbeciles NEVER seem to consider 3 fundamental facts:

1) The vast majority of women gestate, keep, and lovingly raise our children, without the need for interference, permission, or approval.

2)Abortion is a LAST RESORT for the vast majority of women who do choose it - we'd MUCH rather prevent a pregnancy than abort one.

and
3)The vast majority of women who don't want to be mothers, usually aren't very good mothers.

Every child should be a wanted child. When there are no more abandoned, abused, exploited, ignored, molested, neglected, or labeled 'un-adoptable', for any reason whatsoever, already-born children,
THEN we can talk about adoption being the best-and-only solution to unwanted pregnancy.

Until then? Not so much.

The best-and-only solution to unwanted pregnancy, is to avoid it in the first place. That's what self-esteem and contraceptives are for.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#7 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>Being female, and recognizing one's fundamental rights, are not sick. Legally obligating women to attempt gestation against our will? Now THAT'S sick.
Who obliges women to "attempt gestation"?

Straw man, shovelhead.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#8 Mar 7, 2013
Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
Get back to us Bob when you become pregnant with an unwanted pregnancy or even a wanted one. OH...and don't forget to label and get in the face of some of your male pals who have skipped on their child support, remember to tell them how selfish they are and how obligated they should feel. Clean up your own gender BOB, until you can accomplish that your opinion is moot.
Morgana-

Being female doesn't imbue you with the ability to decide whether something's human or not.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#9 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>What really gets my panties in a wad, is that these so-called 'pro-life' imbeciles NEVER seem to consider 3 fundamental facts:
1) The vast majority of women gestate, keep, and lovingly raise our children, without the need for interference, permission, or approval.
2)Abortion is a LAST RESORT for the vast majority of women who do choose it - we'd MUCH rather prevent a pregnancy than abort one.
and
3)The vast majority of women who don't want to be mothers, usually aren't very good mothers.
Every child should be a wanted child. When there are no more abandoned, abused, exploited, ignored, molested, neglected, or labeled 'un-adoptable', for any reason whatsoever, already-born children,
THEN we can talk about adoption being the best-and-only solution to unwanted pregnancy.
Until then? Not so much.
The best-and-only solution to unwanted pregnancy, is to avoid it in the first place. That's what self-esteem and contraceptives are for.
Being "wanted" isn't a qualifier for being human.

Agreed that of one really doesn't want to be pregnant, the best solution is to not get pregnant.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#10 Mar 7, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Who obliges women to "attempt gestation"?
Straw man, shovelhead.
Laws against abortion leave pregnant women with only one legal choice - to attempt gestation. Are you really this thick, dude? Or do you think we could maybe just wish upon a star, and not be pregnant anymore?

Sheesh.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#11 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>Laws against abortion leave pregnant women with only one legal choice - to attempt gestation. Are you really this thick, dude? Or do you think we could maybe just wish upon a star, and not be pregnant anymore?
Sheesh.
I'm not thick enough, I guess, to forget that gestation doesn't occur spontaneously.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#12 Mar 7, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not thick enough, I guess, to forget that gestation doesn't occur spontaneously.
But just thick enough to opine that the women in whom it does occur, should be 'obliged' to attempt it, by law, in order to assuage your little conscience.

(I say 'attempt gestation', because, as you may know, a large percentage of conceived pregnancies are miscarried, through no deliberate action of the woman involved.)

And yes, it takes two to make a baby - but only one risks a pregnancy, and is subject to the risks pregnancy entails, as a result.

Or are you so thick, that you forgot that part?
Dan

Omaha, NE

#13 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>But just thick enough to opine that the women in whom it does occur, should be 'obliged' to attempt it, by law, in order to assuage your little conscience.
(I say 'attempt gestation', because, as you may know, a large percentage of conceived pregnancies are miscarried, through no deliberate action of the woman involved.)
And yes, it takes two to make a baby - but only one risks a pregnancy, and is subject to the risks pregnancy entails, as a result.
Or are you so thick, that you forgot that part?
You said 'forced to attempt gestation', not I. Unless it's a rape, no one's forced to perform the act that initiates gestation. As such, lamenting the "risks" seems silly now, doesn't it? Those risks are avoidable.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#14 Mar 7, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You said 'forced to attempt gestation', not I. Unless it's a rape, no one's forced to perform the act that initiates gestation. As such, lamenting the "risks" seems silly now, doesn't it? Those risks are avoidable.
Now you've crossed the realm of the inane, to arrive at the completely moronic. Sex is not pregnancy.

But just to humor you, rape is, indeed, forced sex. And your mindset would oblige even women who ARE forced to "...perform the act that initiates gestation..." should then be forced to attempt to carry a resulting pregnancy to term.

Oh, I know, you enjoy blathering on about 'punishing the child for the father's crime', and all of that, but the fact remains that the woman's will, as far as you're concerned, becomes irrelevant the moment she conceives. Regardless of the circumstances.

I bet you are also in favor of the rapist being granted visitation.

You're about as "cuddly" as a pit viper.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#15 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>Now you've crossed the realm of the inane, to arrive at the completely moronic. Sex is not pregnancy.
But just to humor you, rape is, indeed, forced sex. And your mindset would oblige even women who ARE forced to "...perform the act that initiates gestation..." should then be forced to attempt to carry a resulting pregnancy to term.
Oh, I know, you enjoy blathering on about 'punishing the child for the father's crime', and all of that, but the fact remains that the woman's will, as far as you're concerned, becomes irrelevant the moment she conceives. Regardless of the circumstances.
I bet you are also in favor of the rapist being granted visitation.
You're about as "cuddly" as a pit viper.
Diversion noted.

Come on back when you want to address what I actually did post.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#16 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>Now you've crossed the realm of the inane, to arrive at the completely moronic. Sex is not pregnancy.
But just to humor you, rape is, indeed, forced sex. And your mindset would oblige even women who ARE forced to "...perform the act that initiates gestation..." should then be forced to attempt to carry a resulting pregnancy to term.
Oh, I know, you enjoy blathering on about 'punishing the child for the father's crime', and all of that, but the fact remains that the woman's will, as far as you're concerned, becomes irrelevant the moment she conceives. Regardless of the circumstances.
I bet you are also in favor of the rapist being granted visitation.
You're about as "cuddly" as a pit viper.
BTW, your post here illustrates "intellectual dishonesty" about as well as anything, strawmanhead72.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#17 Mar 7, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, your post here illustrates "intellectual dishonesty" about as well as anything, strawmanhead72.
Get back to me when you understand, intellectually, the concept of 'honesty'. Can you say, in all 'honesty.' you would NEVER engage in sex if you thought you might get pregnant? That's what you're advocating for women. I'm not telling you to 'be quiet,' because you're a man - I'm telling you to shut the hell up, because you're an idiot.

Next.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#18 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>Get back to me when you understand, intellectually, the concept of 'honesty'. Can you say, in all 'honesty.' you would NEVER engage in sex if you thought you might get pregnant? That's what you're advocating for women. I'm not telling you to 'be quiet,' because you're a man - I'm telling you to shut the hell up, because you're an idiot.
Next.
LOL.

Getting better all the time. "shut the hell up".

If I am making the claim, as you do, that pregnancy is chock full of inherent risk and that having an unwanted child is anathema to society, I'd take it at face that the hypothetical woman holding these beliefs would do everything in their power to avoid pregnancy.

I wouldn't make the claims you make and then whine about being "forced to attempt gestation" after the fact.

“searching myself”

Since: Sep 09

In Charming CA

#19 Mar 7, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
Getting better all the time. "shut the hell up".
If I am making the claim, as you do, that pregnancy is chock full of inherent risk and that having an unwanted child is anathema to society, I'd take it at face that the hypothetical woman holding these beliefs would do everything in their power to avoid pregnancy.
I wouldn't make the claims you make and then whine about being "forced to attempt gestation" after the fact.
That's okay - you'd never willingly attempt gestation, either.

I have.

Seven times.

Get bent.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#20 Mar 7, 2013
shovelhead72 wrote:
<quoted text>That's okay - you'd never willingly attempt gestation, either.
I have.
Seven times.
Get bent.
Seven times. Wow.

Want a T-Shirt or something?

"Get bent".

Where do you get your material? You're hilarious. Like Don Rickles.

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