Since: Jun 07

Vallejo, CA

#375 Feb 11, 2012
Edited for space
zef wrote:
<quoted text>What a load of hogwash. Nothing you spout off has any basis inscience or knowledge. Any living member of any species at any age means the species is not extinct. There is no such thing as a "potential member of the species". All organism at all ages are a specific species. Age has nothing to do with what is or isn't an organism or what species an organism is or isn't. Adult frozen mammoths exist, yet mammoths are extinct. A vast multitude of species are never born. No plant species is ever born. Are all plants extinct? Are all plants a "potential member of the species".
While frozen mammoth carcasses had been excavated by Europeans as early as 1728 (by German scientist Daniel Messerschmidt), the first mammoth fossil fully documented by modern science was discovered near the delta of the Lena River in 1799 by Ossip Schumachov, a Siberian hunter. Schumachov allowed it to thaw (a process taking several years) until he could retrieve the tusks for sale to the ivory trade in Yakutsk. He then abandoned the specimen, allowing it to largely decay before its recovery, possibly even having been partially devoured by modern wolves. In 1806, Russian botanist Mikhail Adams rescued what remained of the specimen and brought it to the Zoological Museum of the Zoological Institute of the Russian Academy of Sciences in St. Petersburg for study. The specimen, which became known as the Adams mammoth, was stuffed and mounted, and continues to be on display at the Zoological Institute.
All humans in the womb exist. All humans developing in the womb are living.
extinct adj.
1. No longer existing or living
embyro n. pl. em·bry·os
1.
a. An organism in its early stages of development, especially before it has reached a distinctively recognizable form.
b. An organism at any time before full development, birth, or hatching.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/embryo
organism
n
"What a load of hogwash. Nothing you spout off has any basis inscience or knowledge. Any living member of any species at any age means the species is not extinct."

"Any living member", yes. A zef is not a member.

I'm not telling you anything untrue.

Let's take your mammoth, for example. If we cloned a mammoth embryo and were successful in implanting it in an elephant, the mammoth remains extinct. What is the point in creating the cloned embryo? To leave it be? To keep it frozen? If that is all that is necessary to claim the species has been regenerated then there's no need to implant it.

Once the mammoth is born, and not a second before, is the species regenerated. It is no longer extinct so long as it lives.
Ocean56

AOL

#376 Feb 11, 2012
Babylon_Drifter wrote:
So motherhood is based upon the whim of whether or not an ovum gets fertilized? No, being a parent is a choice.
Exactly, being a parent is a CHOICE, not a biological requirement.

A growing number of women (and men also) are choosing to be childfree (which means no kids by CHOICE rather than by circumstance), and that is perfectly normal, no matter WHAT anti-choice imbeciles say.
Ocean56

AOL

#377 Feb 11, 2012
zef wrote:
Pregnancy means reproduction has occured. Abortion kills an individual while that individual is in the womb. In order for an individual to exist reproduction must have occurred.
Offspring in the womb are just as much a mothers offspring as those of any other age. Just because a woman kills her offspring does not mean she never had offspring. There is something seriously wrong with the wanton slaughter of innocent humans at hands of others. Even if the killers are their mothers.
Again, this is OPINION, not fact. You can say nonsense like the above all you want. It is completely irrelevant to ANY woman who doesn't want to BE pregnant or be a mother.

A woman can abort a pregnancy for ANY reason, including the most basic one; she doesn't wish to be pregnant or give birth. She isn't actually a mother until she GIVES BIRTH or she already has other children.
zef

Fillmore, CA

#378 Feb 11, 2012
State the Obvious wrote:
Edited for space<quoted text>
"What a load of hogwash. Nothing you spout off has any basis inscience or knowledge. Any living member of any species at any age means the species is not extinct."
"Any living member", yes. A zef is not a member.
I'm not telling you anything untrue.
Let's take your mammoth, for example. If we cloned a mammoth embryo and were successful in implanting it in an elephant, the mammoth remains extinct. What is the point in creating the cloned embryo? To leave it be? To keep it frozen? If that is all that is necessary to claim the species has been regenerated then there's no need to implant it.
Once the mammoth is born, and not a second before, is the species regenerated. It is no longer extinct so long as it lives.
.
A frozen embryo can not be aborted since the mother could not gestate a frozen embryo. Birth has nothing to do with what species an organism is or isn't, or what is or isn't an organism. A vast multitude of organisms of various species never give birth.
Embryo, fetus, child, adolescent, and adult are all stages of development of the human species. A frozen adult is no more or less a member of the species than a frozen embryo. There is no such thing as a "zef". The term "zef" is just a derogatory term used by violent ageist bigots to denegrate the victims of abortion. Adults and adolescents kill embryos and fetus with abortion.

Since: Jun 07

Vallejo, CA

#380 Feb 11, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>.
A frozen embryo can not be aborted since the mother could not gestate a frozen embryo. Birth has nothing to do with what species an organism is or isn't, or what is or isn't an organism. A vast multitude of organisms of various species never give birth.
Embryo, fetus, child, adolescent, and adult are all stages of development of the human species. A frozen adult is no more or less a member of the species than a frozen embryo. There is no such thing as a "zef". The term "zef" is just a derogatory term used by violent ageist bigots to denegrate the victims of abortion. Adults and adolescents kill embryos and fetus with abortion.
You are not refuting my points. You're doing your "Pete and Repeat sat on a wall; Pete fell off so who was left?" bullshit.

When the last person in the universe dies, frozen or not, the species is extinct. EVEN if an alien is gestating a human zef OR if a bunch of frozen human embryos exist somewhere.
zef

Fillmore, CA

#381 Feb 11, 2012
State the Obvious wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not refuting my points. You're doing your "Pete and Repeat sat on a wall; Pete fell off so who was left?" bullshit.
When the last person in the universe dies, frozen or not, the species is extinct. EVEN if an alien is gestating a human zef OR if a bunch of frozen human embryos exist somewhere.
There is no such thing as a "zef". The term "zef" is just a derogatory term used by violent ageist bigots to denegrate the victims of abortion. Adults and adolescents kill embryos and fetus with abortion.
All humans developing in the womb exist. All humans developing in the womb are alive.
extinct adj.
1. No longer existing or living: an extinct species.

Since: Jun 07

Vallejo, CA

#382 Feb 11, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>There is no such thing as a "zef". The term "zef" is just a derogatory term used by violent ageist bigots to denegrate the victims of abortion. Adults and adolescents kill embryos and fetus with abortion.
All humans developing in the womb exist. All humans developing in the womb are alive.
extinct adj.
1. No longer existing or living: an extinct species.
Zefs are potential members of the species, and unless they are born alive their existence does not regenerate the extinct species.

Keep ignoring that fact, Repeat.
zef

Fillmore, CA

#383 Feb 11, 2012
State the Obvious wrote:
<quoted text>
Zefs are potential members of the species, and unless they are born alive their existence does not regenerate the extinct species.
Keep ignoring that fact, Repeat.
What extinct species? What are you babbling about?
There is no such thing as a "zef". The term "zef" is just a derogatory term used by violent ageist bigots to denegrate the victims of abortion. Adults and adolescents kill embryos and fetus with abortion.

Stages of physical development of the species Homo sapien:
embryo
fetus
child
adolescent
adult

Relative Embryo Growth Rates in the Annual Cicer L. Species
Early embryo growth rates were studied in the nine annual species of Cicer L., namely, C. arietinum L., C. bijugum Rech., C. chorassanicum (Bge.) M. Pop., C. cuneatum Rich., C. echinospermum Dav., C. judaicum Boiss, C. pinnatifidum J. and S., C. reticulatum Lad. and C. yamashitae Kit. The number of embryo cells increased exponentially with time and was log linear in all the species. Species differed in their mean cell doubling time (MCDT). Cicer echinospermum and C. yamashitae had, respectively, the longest and the shortest MCDT which ranged from 9.67 to 16.15 h for the nine species. Failure of successful interspecific hybridization between C. arietinum and the wild annual species was only partly explained by differences in MCDT of the parental species. Relative genetic closeness still plays the major role in determining success of interspecific hybridization in Cicer.
http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/68/6/48...

The image to the left shows that embryos of certain species develop almost identically, especially in the early stages. Such physical similarities indicate that there are genetic similarities between the organisms. These similarities can be considered evidence that the organisms shown probably descended from a common ancestor.
http://bioweb.cs.earlham.edu/9-12/evolution/H...

The fetus obviously has the same DNA as everyone else and can’t possibly be classified as any species other than homo sapiens...
http://atheism.about.com/od/abortioncontracep...

The astonishing similarity in the appearance of embryos from different animal species was observed as far back as the 19th century by scientists such as Karl von Baer, Charles Darwin and Ernst Haeckel.
Whether fish or flies -- at a certain stage in their development, the embryos of different animal species within a phylum are almost impossible to distinguish on the basis of their appearance. The greatest similarity arises in the middle of embryonic development, during the "phylotypic stage"; species-specific differences predominate before and after this stage.
"The results show that the similarity between different animal species in the middle of their embryonic development is shaped by selection,"
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/12/...

Since: Jun 07

Vallejo, CA

#384 Feb 11, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
What extinct species? What are you babbling about?
Again, you won't challenge because you know what I'm saying is true.

Yeah, your side often resorts to pretending you were never participating in the conversation.

Take a flying leap, Repeat.

“Let Them Live”

Since: Jan 11

Location hidden

#385 Feb 11, 2012
He's a trip.
bluestreak defiant wrote:
<quoted text>
You're actually male, huh? OK, Kathwynn, I'll go along with the gag. So what's the punchline?

Since: Nov 11

Gastonia, NC

#386 Feb 11, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>There is no such thing as a "potential member of the species".
Cut an nematode into several "fractures"; each fracture has the potential to become an entirely independent organism but each underdeveloped piece is not a nematode but instead a part of the former. It is only until these fractures develop into fully fledged, surviving on their own lifeforms are they ever considered a single organism.

A zygote is only a part of a person; it is roughly a cell which replicates itself until it can become a tissue and eventually an organ. When "lifers" call zygotes "people" it is like saying a tire from a car is a separate car.

Since: Nov 11

Gastonia, NC

#387 Feb 11, 2012
It's nice to see "lifers" taking a break from shrieking how morally destructive abortion is to debate such important issues like a user's sexual identity.

Yeah, I guess over 1 million abortions a year isn't exactly a pressing issue for you guys.

Since: Nov 11

Gastonia, NC

#388 Feb 11, 2012
Kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
tomtom is a person that gives the christian religion a bad name.
God gives the christian religion a bad name.
Nico

San Francisco, CA

#389 Feb 11, 2012
a little arguement suggestion: insulting makes your own self look weak, now continue
zef

Fillmore, CA

#390 Feb 12, 2012
Babylon_Drifter wrote:
<quoted text>
Cut an nematode into several "fractures"; each fracture has the potential to become an entirely independent organism but each underdeveloped piece is not a nematode but instead a part of the former. It is only until these fractures develop into fully fledged, surviving on their own lifeforms are they ever considered a single organism.
A zygote is only a part of a person; it is roughly a cell which replicates itself until it can become a tissue and eventually an organ. When "lifers" call zygotes "people" it is like saying a tire from a car is a separate car.
Zygotes don't become organs. Zygote are human beings at the beginning of there lifespan. Zygote is also the first stage of embryonic development.
Embryogenesis is the process by which the embryo is formed and develops, until it develops into a fetus.
Embryogenesis starts with the fertilization of the ovum (or egg) by sperm. The fertilized ovum is referred to as a zygote. The zygote undergoes rapid mitotic divisions with no significant growth (a process known as cleavage) and cellular differentiation, leading to development of an embryo.
Stages of embryonic development
zygote
blastocyst
embryo
Physical stages of human life
embryo
fetus
child
adolescent
adult
death

“Proud to be a Wiccan Priest”

Since: Jul 09

Jonesboro AR

#391 Feb 12, 2012
Babylon_Drifter wrote:
<quoted text>
God gives the christian religion a bad name.
Actually, I will disagree there.. It is the followers of a religion.

Chances are that the follower has either through ignorance or purpose misinterprets the religions own teachings. Creating an environment that says that their own interpretation whether personal or in a group is the only correct way to understand the religion sacred writings. All other interpretations must be wrong. This same environment creates fear, hate, and deceit. To a point that violence, hatred, and bigotry becomes a norm for that group or person.

Such extreme examples are the islamic terrorists, the westboro baptists, and the prolife extremists that murder, fire bomb and terrorize people.

Since: Nov 11

Gastonia, NC

#393 Feb 12, 2012
zef wrote:
<quoted text>
Zygotes don't become organs.
A zygote is a cell, not a person.

"A zygote or zygocyte, is the initial cell formed when two gamete cells are joined by means of sexual reproduction."

The human body is composed of trillions of cells, not trillions of human beings.
zef wrote:
<quoted text>Zygote are human beings at the beginning of there lifespan.
A human being's life is judged upon a collection of vital signs of life like breathing, heart rate and brain waves. At no point is a human being's life judged upon cellular activity.

Since: Nov 11

Gastonia, NC

#394 Feb 12, 2012
Kathwynn wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I will disagree there.. It is the followers of a religion.
Chances are that the follower has either through ignorance or purpose misinterprets the religions own teachings. Creating an environment that says that their own interpretation whether personal or in a group is the only correct way to understand the religion sacred writings. All other interpretations must be wrong. This same environment creates fear, hate, and deceit. To a point that violence, hatred, and bigotry becomes a norm for that group or person.
Such extreme examples are the islamic terrorists, the westboro baptists, and the prolife extremists that murder, fire bomb and terrorize people.
Their holy book is filled with countless stories of aggressive warmongering, genocide, pillaging, plundering, wanton destruction, sexual slavery, rape, misogyny, child abuse, homophobia, unfair laws, cruel and unusual punishment, the punishment of innocents, and brutal chattel slavery. Their god himself authorized all this, and if Christians worship such a monster then they are no better than the personality cults that followed Stalin, Hitler, Mao and etc..

Since: Nov 11

Gastonia, NC

#397 Feb 12, 2012
Tom Tom wrote:
<quoted text>
So says the hate-filled secular proabortion pagan. You are consumed by hate to the point that your every utterance betrays your vile and hideous spirit. Better go stalk some more kids for one of your pagan rituals.
Attack the message, not the messenger, child. Did I say anything remotely untrue? Either engage me intellectually or go take your hurt feelings somewhere else.
zef

Fillmore, CA

#398 Feb 12, 2012
Babylon_Drifter wrote:
<quoted text>
A zygote is a cell, not a person.
"A zygote or zygocyte, is the initial cell formed when two gamete cells are joined by means of sexual reproduction."
The human body is composed of trillions of cells, not trillions of human beings.
<quoted text>
A human being's life is judged upon a collection of vital signs of life like breathing, heart rate and brain waves. At no point is a human being's life judged upon cellular activity.
Zygote are human beings at the beginning of there lifespan. Zygote is also the first stage of embryonic development.
Embryogenesis is the process by which the embryo is formed and develops, until it develops into a fetus.
Embryogenesis starts with the fertilization of the ovum (or egg) by sperm. The fertilized ovum is referred to as a zygote. The zygote undergoes rapid mitotic divisions with no significant growth (a process known as cleavage) and cellular differentiation, leading to development of an embryo.
Stages of embryonic development
zygote
blastocyst
embryo
Physical stages of human life
embryo
fetus
child
adolescent
adult
death
What is prenatal care?
Prenatal care is the health care you get while you are pregnant. Take care of yourself and your baby by:
•Getting early prenatal care. If you know you're pregnant, or think you might be, call your doctor to schedule a visit.
•Getting regular prenatal care. Your doctor will schedule you for many checkups over the course of your pregnancy. Don't miss any — they are all important.
•Following your doctor's advice.
http://www.womenshealth.gov/publications/our-...

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