Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Full story: Newsday 308,008
Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision. Full Story

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#295573 May 11, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Being a nun doesn't excuse her. And where did they get human blood?
<quoted text>
Good question. I was wondering the same thing myself.
rosesz

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#295574 May 11, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. Not all medical schools even administer the oath anymore, and of those who do, many use the modern version, which acknowledges that it may fall to the physician to take life as well as save life.
And
Sadly that says a lot about us a a society. FOR hundreds of years do no harm and sadly now even that is optional..IMO

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#295575 May 11, 2013
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
never. and this is the only screen name i've posted under since 2009, or since chicky tried to steal it.
are you going to have the decency to apologize now?
She did the same thing to me!

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#295576 May 11, 2013
John-K wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Evening "Rach!"
As you're so wont to do,(as far as I've "known" you,) you've once again managed to undermine your reputation as a mere "troll" here and provided yet another interesting, thoughtful, post for us to consider.
"What is this all Ah-Boot eh?!?!"
Good to "see" you again my friend!
;P
I have my moments of clarity! Nice to see you again Johnny K

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#295577 May 11, 2013
rosesz wrote:
<quoted text>
And
Sadly that says a lot about us a a society. FOR hundreds of years do no harm and sadly now even that is optional..IMO
Every must either change, or stagnate and die. Society is no different. I have to disagree with you. For example, I think a doctor should be allowed to assist a terminally ill patient in horrendous pain to die. I also think the family of a brain dead patient should be allowed to let them go by having the doctor turn off the life support. We do that for our pets, why shouldn't we for our loved ones? How would that be possible with a vow to "do no harm"? Not that it's even possible to never do harm anyway.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#295578 May 11, 2013
<Sigh> should be "EveryTHING must change....." Sorry, got distracted while typing.
rosesz

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#295579 May 11, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Every must either change, or stagnate and die. Society is no different. I have to disagree with you. For example, I think a doctor should be allowed to assist a terminally ill patient in horrendous pain to die. I also think the family of a brain dead patient should be allowed to let them go by having the doctor turn off the life support. We do that for our pets, why shouldn't we for our loved ones? How would that be possible with a vow to "do no harm"? Not that it's even possible to never do harm anyway.
Well on some if that I agree. But here is the thing. I used to do REGs. Back in the 70s. Part of it was advertising brain death. we would up the sensitivity so high we could pick up electrical artefacts from the outlets. ANYWAY 2 coastlines. Done in a very specific manner..And they could pull the plug because ONLY THE machine was breathing

Had one patient..man in forties..found after stroke but several days old..He was gone but parents couldn't accept..Now this next is gross.
I DID one..flat went back a few days later. They had put him in a private room the smell was horrid..not only was the MY tube auctioning liquid...the nurse explained he was liquefying.

FINALLY SOMEONE git the machines turned off..ok in these conditions..keeping him plugged in was DOING HARM.

AND I know docs make decisions all the time that have that potential. And may make life and death acts or decision that do the same..
Unless there is malpractice or lunacy..these decisions are about sick or Terminal people..

Only during this abortion debate in the last decades. was the practice of ending a Healthy Human life..in the womb ..an issue..And so for political and other reasons..they changed the Oath..

BITNER..ending a terminal life is arguably doing LESS harm than allowing continued suffering sufferinG.
ENDING a Healthy Human life at whatever whatever stage Is Doing harm to That life.
rosesz

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#295580 May 11, 2013
Sorry..E E G. Brainwaves and back in the day we had big machines we had to move and little wires we actually glued all over the head..But very accurate

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#295581 May 11, 2013
rosesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Well on some if that I agree. But here is the thing. I used to do REGs. Back in the 70s. Part of it was advertising brain death. we would up the sensitivity so high we could pick up electrical artefacts from the outlets. ANYWAY 2 coastlines. Done in a very specific manner..And they could pull the plug because ONLY THE machine was breathing
Had one patient..man in forties..found after stroke but several days old..He was gone but parents couldn't accept..Now this next is gross.
I DID one..flat went back a few days later. They had put him in a private room the smell was horrid..not only was the MY tube auctioning liquid...the nurse explained he was liquefying.
FINALLY SOMEONE git the machines turned off..ok in these conditions..keeping him plugged in was DOING HARM.
AND I know docs make decisions all the time that have that potential. And may make life and death acts or decision that do the same..
Unless there is malpractice or lunacy..these decisions are about sick or Terminal people..
Only during this abortion debate in the last decades. was the practice of ending a Healthy Human life..in the womb ..an issue..And so for political and other reasons..they changed the Oath..
BITNER..ending a terminal life is arguably doing LESS harm than allowing continued suffering sufferinG.
ENDING a Healthy Human life at whatever whatever stage Is Doing harm to That life.
One, no, the oath was not changed due to the abortion debate. It was written in 1964. It had nothing to DO with abortion.

Two, the ancient oath did not say "less harm". It was unequivocal.

I'd have to disagree that any real harm is done to an embryo or fetus that is unaware it even exists, and does not have the capacity for sensation. Still, this issue is not based upon one such aspect. And there is no POV from the embryo/fetus, except what people want to attribute to it, based upon nothing but their imagination.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#295582 May 11, 2013
rosesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol ..And not really funny but I think punishment should fit crime..he held those girls for 10 years and did GOD knows what..And the brothers had to know. Well hope they can keep this stuff from being prejudiced. So no chance for defense to use excuses.
Did they convict Eliz Smarts abductors..Can't remember..this stuff takes a long time..all these victims need prayers
Yes, the victims are going to need lots of help and support.

“Dan IS the Man”

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#295583 May 11, 2013
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
when you quote someone you better get it right. i never said that mixing up a colon and semi colon was a debacle. liar.
" worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
"bit-o-stupid, no matter who she really is, will never live down the colon/semi colon debacle."

“Truly Pro-Life”

Since: Nov 11

Proudly Pro-choice

#295584 May 11, 2013
Long Night Moon 13 wrote:
<quoted text>
" worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
"bit-o-stupid, no matter who she really is, will never live down the colon/semi colon debacle."
I hear in the distance, the drumming of heels from our illustrious fantasy worshiper, upon being hoist on his own (unimpressive) petard.....
rosesz

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#295585 May 11, 2013
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
One, no, the oath was not changed due to the abortion debate. It was written in 1964. It had nothing to DO with abortion.
Two, the ancient oath did not say "less harm". It was unequivocal.
I'd have to disagree that any real harm is done to an embryo or fetus that is unaware it even exists, and does not have the capacity for sensation. Still, this issue is not based upon one such aspect. And there is no POV from the embryo/fetus, except what people want to attribute to it, based upon nothing but their imagination.
Interestingly the phrase do no harm was from Hippocrates but not exactly in the Oath..The earlier oath actually precluded inducing abortions...
That has changed. I could not find a date but I imagine THAT change came with abortion legalization.

Learn something new,every day.

On the Ending if a human life...means to me ..if it is not good for it..it is harmful..it definitely harms the human in the womb to kill it.

And no amount of science will ever convince me that the older the pregnancy..the more likely it will feel pain..And I know all the arguments ..Still. if my baby in my womb will move when I lay on my side..for an example.... it is aware of its surroundings...And can feel pain even if it is not cognitive of what pain is..

Abortion harms the tiny being in the womb..But then docs can do them legally without breaking the modern oath.

And it goes back to my original point..what we say about society.
FOR ME..ITS sad..Especially given the numbers we accept hot this harm.

More could be done ..yes women have rights ..But rights come with exercise of responsibility .To prevent...CONTRACEPTION..even if faulty is still an attempt to preclude abortion...

I don't know the answer..for sure....Just find it sad we have changed our noms so drastically that 50 million is acceptable..in doing away with our own offspring

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#295586 May 11, 2013
rosesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Interestingly the phrase do no harm was from Hippocrates but not exactly in the Oath..The earlier oath actually precluded inducing abortions...
That has changed. I could not find a date but I imagine THAT change came with abortion legalization.
Learn something new,every day.
On the Ending if a human life...means to me ..if it is not good for it..it is harmful..it definitely harms the human in the womb to kill it.
And no amount of science will ever convince me that the older the pregnancy..the more likely it will feel pain..And I know all the arguments ..Still. if my baby in my womb will move when I lay on my side..for an example.... it is aware of its surroundings...And can feel pain even if it is not cognitive of what pain is..
Abortion harms the tiny being in the womb..But then docs can do them legally without breaking the modern oath.
And it goes back to my original point..what we say about society.
FOR ME..ITS sad..Especially given the numbers we accept hot this harm.
More could be done ..yes women have rights ..But rights come with exercise of responsibility .To prevent...CONTRACEPTION..even if faulty is still an attempt to preclude abortion...
I don't know the answer..for sure....Just find it sad we have changed our noms so drastically that 50 million is acceptable..in doing away with our own offspring
Again, no, the change did NOT come with the legalization of abortion. The modern version was written in 1964.

The oath is about the patient, and the patient is the woman in question. She is the one the doctor will attempt to not harm.

When a woman is pregnant, it's too late to talk about prevention. And what constitutes responsible action regarding an unplanned pregnancy is a matter of opinion, not fact. And the fact is that the only opinion that matters, is that of the pregnant woman. If SHE sees having an abortion as the responsible action, then it is, for her. What anyone else thinks, is irrelevant.

Reflexive action is separate from sensation and thought. It's a function of the autonomic nervous system, which is in place LONG before there is even a higher brain, nevermind higher brain function. 99% of all abortions, and 100% of all elective abortions, occur before the anatomical structures necessary for pain perception are in place. Pain is not even possible until then, and that's ignoring the roles that consciousness, a frame of reference and experience play in pain perception as well.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#295587 May 11, 2013
Okay, I have to go get ready to go out to dinner with the family. Happy Mother's Day to the moms, if I don't get back on.
rosesz

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#295588 May 11, 2013
Bitner wrote:
Okay, I have to go get ready to go out to dinner with the family. Happy Mother's Day to the moms, if I don't get back on.
Happy Moms day to you also.

Of course it is only my feeling or opinion since what you are talking about is now the legal norm.

And again I will never believe personally that the human being in the womb esp later term feels no pain..call it a response if you ..But it is aware of something not pleasant especially as its systems become older..
There are people who think plants feel pain.who won't squish a bug ..And on upwards..Rescues for wild things which don't think as we do.

I think society has given these tiny beings less care than that in our consciousness.. Sorry BITNER but the norm for humans and most higher animals is CARE of our young..not eradication..
I know it's too late while she is pregnant. But as long as the society finds these numbers the norm. WOMEN...NOT ALL..But a great many will NOT take precaution in higher numbers..it's pretty effective. If the Goal of women's organizations (for one group) was to actively campaign for lowering the numbers..on a scale of say great cancer research...There would be fewer..WITHOUT taking away rights. But for politics it's not in their interest for some of them.

And ITS A LOT BETTER FOR THE WOMAN NOT TO HAVE ONE for many reasons.

More PSA s on it..how much better for a woman to PREVENT pregnancy and STDs..

There us no incentive to do this and it is a business..

Oh well the old debate goes on but responsible people..politicians..organizat ions.. could put more effort into making them RARE..
razzmatazz

Falls City, NE

#295589 May 11, 2013
rosesz wrote:
<quoted text>
Well he was in church..God only knows his heart and soul
If Tiller was going to church and committing murder.... and was still practicing that would make him damned. This is a teaching moment. Unless that man confessed and said he was sorry , then he is alright with God, but he had no intention of stopping his slaughterhouse. Even if he were to ask for forgiveness after death, he would never be on the same level or meet his victims in heaven. NEVER. Christ taught this.
rosesz

Ireland

#295590 May 11, 2013
razzmatazz wrote:
<quoted text>If Tiller was going to church and committing murder.... and was still practicing that would make him damned. This is a teaching moment. Unless that man confessed and said he was sorry , then he is alright with God, but he had no intention of stopping his slaughterhouse. Even if he were to ask for forgiveness after death, he would never be on the same level or meet his victims in heaven. NEVER. Christ taught this.
I agree with some of what you said..But he obviously knew about God . We have no way to know the STATE of his soul AT THE MOMENT of death.
From what I have learned..AFTER. is too late. Maybe I misread you.
razzmatazz

Falls City, NE

#295591 May 11, 2013
rosesz wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with some of what you said..But he obviously knew about God . We have no way to know the STATE of his soul AT THE MOMENT of death.
From what I have learned..AFTER. is too late. Maybe I misread you.
when you come face to face you can ask for forgiveness. Judging Till is not wrong, and we should teach what he did was very wrong and very evil. You need to go back and learn that saying someone is wrong and what they do is a sin is not exactly judgemental.
Gtown71

United States

#295592 May 11, 2013
razzmatazz wrote:
<quoted text>If Tiller was going to church and committing murder.... and was still practicing that would make him damned. This is a teaching moment. Unless that man confessed and said he was sorry , then he is alright with God, but he had no intention of stopping his slaughterhouse. Even if he were to ask for forgiveness after death, he would never be on the same level or meet his victims in heaven. NEVER. Christ taught this.
Well, sitting in church makes a person a child of God, like sitting in a garage makes a person a car.

Many within the "church" are saved, children of God, many are damned, even many many who hold high positions and are at the top. Christ for certain taught that.

I will say, it don't look good for tiller, as the bible says we shall know them by their fruit, and his fruit was rotten. Yet only he knows and God knows if he's in Heaven or Hell. I don't believe in any in between place.
I believe luke 16 tells about what happens to the.lost and saved at death.

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