Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision

Full story: Newsday

Thousands of abortion opponents marched from the National Mall to the Supreme Court on Tuesday in their annual remembrance of the court's Roe v. Wade decision.

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#268863
Dec 7, 2012
 
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
"no you weren't."
Yes, I was.
"that would have been "i pity you". sorry is an expression of apology. maybe you were sorry that you pitied me. either way, it's an apology."
You don't get to tell me what I meant, nor control how I express myself. I was expressing my pity toward you. Deal with it.
"damn you're stupid."
No, I'm not. YOU, however, are a control freak. Too bad for you that you get to control nothing.
"a period that you missed."
That's right, a period that never happened. And a missed miscarriage is a miscarriage that never happened, even though the fetus is already dead.
"an appointment that you missed."
That's right, an appointment that never happened. And a missed miscarriage is a miscarriage that never happened, even though the fetus is already dead.
"can you explain to us all what the medical definition of pregnant is?"
Irrelevant to the discussion. A missed miscarriage was explained fully in LynneD's link, where even IT said that the woman was still pregnant even though the fetus was already dead. And since the discussion is about spontaneous abortion, then the medical definition of abortion is what is relevant. The medical definition of abortion clearly states that an abortion is the expulsion of a fetus, whether naturally or induced, and is not dependent on whether or not the fetus is alive at that time.
Another think you'll just have to deal with, Control Freak.
It is a catholic/christian belief that if a fetus dies in utero and requires medical/surgical intervention to be removed, the treatment is not abortive and should not be confused with the procedures for an unwanted pregnancy.

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#268864
Dec 7, 2012
 

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No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Katie: "Now, wasn't your original claim that D&Cs are different depending on spontaneous and induced abortions? From what it says above, there is no difference."
A patient placed within a particular Diagnostic Related Group doesn't mean he/she is same as others in that group. The hospital is reimbursed the same for those in that group, even though they may receive different treatments for different reasons.
Submissions for reimbursement to Medicare for an induced abortion would be clear it is for an induced abortion. Doc/code for Rape/incest/life of mother and Proper ICD-9 code.
I shared yesterday that ICD-9 codes are clear that differences exist:
634 Spontaneous abortion (non-elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...
635 Legally induced abortion (elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...
636 Illegally induced abortion (elective)
http://www.icd9data.com/2012/Volume1/630-679/...
Even Ayakaneo failed to prove a D&C after miscarriage is coded the same as induced abortion.
Back in Oct. when she 1st tried to defend the stupidity from the pro-choicers about D&Cs. We weren't saying D&Cs aren't the same procedure, we were saying that the purpose for the procedure is not the same for induced abortion as it is for spontaneous abortion/miscarriage, and so they'd be charted in patient's file, coded and billed differently. She then provides codes trying to prove me wrong, but proved me right instead, because she doesn't know what we've been talking about.

post 262494
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>For the record DW, I don't read what you copy and paste. I saw a post from Elise stating you were c&p posts from back in January.
<quoted text>
"I don't care what was posted back then. The D&C after an elective abortion is the same D&C after a spontaneous abortion. Therefore it is an abortion procedure and will be charted and coded and transcribed as such WITH THE DISTINCTION OF *ELECTIVE**SPONTANEOUS**MISSED **COMPLETE**INCOMPLETE*. DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT DISTINCTION IS?"


Lil Lily replied
<quoted text>
"And you have proven you don't understand medical coding and billing."
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>
"You are disputing that a D&C for any type of abortion is not charted,coded, or transcribed as a D&C for the type of abortion it is used for. I have told you time and again it is charted as an abortion with THE DISTINCTION OF THE TYPE OF ABORTION. You have denied that. I provided you the codes above."


^^There she displays just how little she knows of the discussion she entered into, blindly defending pro-choicers when she didn't even know what the dispute was. She thought we pro-lifers couldn't accept that miscarriage was a type of "abortion", when we weren't disputing that, because we know it's medically a "spontaneous abortion".

Then she finishes the post with,
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>"I've concluded you know nothing about coding/billing/charting."

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#268865
Dec 7, 2012
 

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I'm orry, I thought thecodes copied as wel Here are te codes Ayakaneo had provided back in Ot.

ICD 9 - International Classification of Diseases
634 Spontaneous Abortion
635 Induced Abortion
636 Illegally Induced Abortion
637 Unspecified Abortion
638 Failed Attempt Abortion
ICD 9 Code for D&C
69.02 - Dilation and curettage following delivery or abortion.
CPT - Current Procedural Terminology
Code 59812
Dilation and curettage for the surgical management of an incomplete abortion.

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#268866
Dec 7, 2012
 

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AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>It makes no difference which post of yours I replied to. Fact is you have called me bonehead, clueless, toots, etc. throughout this same discussion.
<quoted text>Then why didn't you post them here again? You should still have those post numbers.
<quoted text>I didn't just read Foo's post. Elise said it and Katie did too. Are they all pathological liars?
<quoted text>Oh please, so I should just listen to you because you have all the facts and never lie right?
<quoted text>There was no piecing together. You out of the blue come out with that post saying a PCer said it, no prochoicer said it in February prior to you saying they did. Prior to February when it was actually discussed what PC'r said the D&C was an abortion. If it wasn't Foo, Elise or Katie then they have their facts straight.
<quoted text>Go back and read the post yourself. You brought it up in February and you were told then that a D&C was not an abortion by at least 3 PC posters. I told you it wasn't an abortion so that's 4 PC posters. So ruling out the fact that it wasn't me, Foo, Elise or Katie, who said it? You're so good at remembering what people posted and understand the context of what they posted even when you were not posting at the time, you should have no problem remembering who said it.
<quoted text>Foo this, Foo that, every single day it's Foo Foo Foo.
<quoted text>Which claims Lynne? Don't just say Elise makes claims and provides no proof without providing the proof it's true.*facepalm*
Ayakaneo: "You brought it up in February and you were told then that a D&C was not an abortion by at least 3 PC posters. I told you it wasn't an abortion so that's 4 PC posters. So ruling out the fact that it wasn't me, Foo, Elise or Katie, who said it?"

Really? In Feb. you say? Go find those Feb. posts and prove it.

All you post is your claim, but you don't back it with the posts you're making claims about.

Ayakaneo: "You're so good at remembering what people posted and understand the context of what they posted even when you were not posting at the time, you should have no problem remembering who said it."

You're the one who wasn't here when this discussion 1st took place, and you're the one who tries to defend posts you weren't here to read at the time, but YOU think you know what was said. The only reason you know anything is because I'm the one providing the links, post numbers and posts proving the pro-choicers did say what I claimed they said. You provide your version of what you think they meant in what they said, to try to make their claims fit, when what's within their posts proves you wrong.

You did it with the Ariel thing too when you claimed Foo was talking about the other girl missing when mentioning the age of 14, and Foo's the one who proved you wrong, but saying she "misspoke" about the age, in referring to Ariel.

You're a pro-choice kiss up fool who has a habit of trying to make the lies pro-choicers post fit the facts, rather than looking at the facts of what was actually posted and seeing that they lied.

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#268867
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
I wasn't apologizing. You have reading comprehension issues too, huh?
The discussion was about abortions. Hence my use of the medical definition of abortion. Also, LynneD's own source confirmed that even if the fetus is dead, the woman is still pregnant if it remains in her uterus.
No it didn't. Your posts proved you can't read for comprehension.
Just because a woman doesn't know she miscarried, doesn't mean it didn't happen if the fetus IS dead.

You don't even understand what "Missed Miscarriage" is.

http://www.pregnancyetc.com/what-is-a-missed-...
"When it comes to miscarrying, the majority of women experiencing one will have identifiable symptoms such as cramping, nausea, and bleeding, which is often heavy...

... With a missed miscarriage, the woman has no exterior symptoms of losing the pregnancy because the body fails to "notice" the loss of the baby....

... As a result, the fetal tissue is not immediately expelled by the uterus....

...Although there may be no typical signs of a miscarriage, for a woman suffering a missed miscarriage, she may stop feeling the symptoms of pregnancy, such as nausea, tender breasts, etc...

...With most any other miscarriage, the body will take care of expelling the fetal tissue on its own, but with a missed miscarriage, you may have to resort to medical intervention to ensure that you do not retain the fetal tissue, which can eventually result in infection. If the pregnancy is earlier than 8 weeks, your doctor may give you misoprostol to encourage the uterus to expel the tissue. After 8 weeks, your doctor may take a wait and see approach to allow the body to eventually react to the miscarriage naturally...."

Did they say wait for the body to react to the miscarriage? What miscarriage? The one that happened when the fetus died but there weren't any symptoms of losing the baby, even though the fetus wasn't expelled, and so the woman doesn't know her pregnancy ended? Why yes, that is what they're saying about a "missed miscarriage".

Miscarriages that have no symptoms are what a missed miscarriage is, and it says that doctors may take a wait and see approach to allow the body to react to the pregnancy having "miscarried".
Missed miscarriage is only about [the (woman's body) not recognizing the pregnancy ended], when the fetus died, and the body is not having the usual symptoms of miscarriage such as "cramping, nausea, and bleeding, which is often heavy".

Don't know how many different ways this can be worded for dummies, but I doubt the pro-choicers will understand it, no matter how it's written. Miscarriage means signs of pregnancy will decrease and ultimately stop because the pregnancy ended. The body does take time for the changes to occur, depending on the type of miscarriage that happened.

Fetus dies, pregnancy is over, whether fetus is still in utero or is expelled naturally.

This discussion is about D&C procedure for miscarriages, and that procedure not being an abortion procedure. Bitner likes to try to bring in "missed miscarriage" so that it can fit the PC lie that a D&C after miscarriage would be an abortion procedure, using the "still pregnant" bullshit. It's ridiculous.

Pro-choicers have tried and failed on every level to make any sense of the stupidity they've posted about it.

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#268868
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Here's more info they won't understand.

Miscarriages have warning signs or there are symptoms once the fetus died. "Missed miscarriage" only means there are no symptoms to indicate the fetus died. That's all missed miscarriage means.

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/pregnancycom...

~"Most of the time all types of miscarriage are just called miscarriage, but you may hear your health care provider refer to other terms or names of miscarriage such as:

Threatened Miscarriage:
Some degree of early pregnancy uterine bleeding accompanied by cramping or lower backache. The cervix remains closed. This bleeding is often the result of implantation.

Inevitable or Incomplete Miscarriage:
Abdominal or back pain accompanied by bleeding with an open cervix. Miscarriage is inevitable when there is a dilation or effacement of the cervix and/or there is rupture of the membranes. Bleeding and cramps may persist if the miscarriage is not complete.

Complete Miscarriage:
A completed miscarriage is when the embryo or products of conception have emptied out of the uterus. Bleeding should subside quickly, as should any pain or cramping. A completed miscarriage can be confirmed by an ultrasound or by having a surgical curettage (D&C) performed.

Missed Miscarriage:
Women can experience a miscarriage without knowing it. A missed miscarriage is when embryonic death has occurred but there is not any expulsion of the embryo. It is not known why this occurs. Signs of this would be a loss of pregnancy symptoms and the absence of fetal heart tones found on an ultrasound."~

All types of spontaneous abortions have symptoms except the "missed miscarriage". That's why it's considered "missed". The body [failed to recognize] the fetus died.

Not at all the same as "missed period" as Bitner the DOPE thinks. What's "missed" in a "missed miscarriage" are [the symptoms] that it happened.
HuskerDu

Falls City, NE

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#268869
Dec 7, 2012
 

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TomTom wrote:
<quoted text>
If not an unbprn child, what? An unobrn dog?
You pagans are all confused becasue of the Hobbit movie. Get your tickets and root for your favorite pagan character.
The Hobbit is based on Catholicism, really interesting.

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#268870
Dec 7, 2012
 

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AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text> ... You out of the blue come out with that post saying a PCer said it, no prochoicer said it in February prior to you saying they did....You brought it up in February and you were told then that a D&C was not an abortion by at least 3 PC posters. I told you it wasn't an abortion so that's 4 PC posters....
To answer one of your questions, yes, Foo, Elise and Katie are all pathological liars. We pro-lifers have proven it about them all. Not only were they saying it in Jan.(I didn't say anything about Feb),(they said it in Oct.) they also said it in Jan.

Oct. 6, 2012
Post 262234
Foo: "...I at NO time EVER made the claim that a D&C is an "abortion procedure for the treatment of an incomplete spontaneous abortion"..."

What is an incomplete spontaneous abortion?
"Inevitable or Incomplete Miscarriage: Abdominal or back pain accompanied by bleeding with an open cervix. Miscarriage is inevitable when there is a dilation or effacement of the cervix and/or there is rupture of the membranes. Bleeding and cramps may persist if the miscarriage is not complete."

No mention of dead fetus having been expelled. Incomplete means "products of conception still remain in uterus and those products may include the dead fetus.

Oct. 7, 2012
Post 262413
~Foo: "If a woman has a dead fetus in her, then yes, it IS an abortion procedure to get rid of the dead fetal matter."~

Foo is saying a D&C "IS an "abortion procedure" for miscarriage.

Post 262385
Oct. 7, 2012
~Elise: "If the fetus is dead the woman is still pregnant and an abortion is performed to terminate the pregnancy and evacuate the uterus. An abortion is an abortion is an abortion as far as medicine is concerned. I don't know why you go on about that and about D&Cs, Lily."~

Elise is saying "and an abortion is performed" for miscarriage, using the claim that woman is "still pregnant".


HuskerDu

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#268871
Dec 7, 2012
 
TomTom wrote:
<quoted text>
If not an unbprn child, what? An unobrn dog?
You pagans are all confused becasue of the Hobbit movie. Get your tickets and root for your favorite pagan character.
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/art...

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#268872
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
One doesn't miscarry a child. A child is already born.
Still, pay attention, Stupid Sassy. The discussion is about a MISSED MISCARRIAGE, not a complete miscarriage. The fetus is dead, but isn't yet expelled. The medical definition of abortion, plus LynneD's own source confirm that in that case, the woman is still pregnant.
Really, if you can't pay better attention, why bother posting?
Whoever said "It's better to remain quiet and thought a fool, than to speak up and remove all doubt" could have been talking about you, specifically.
"One doesn't miscarry a child. A child is already born."

You're always wrong because you can't understand what you read, and ignore what would be impossible for anyone with an IQ above 10 should be able to understand. You people try to ignore what's already been defined, and try to redefine what's already been defined.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/child

"
child
[chahyld] Show IPA

noun, plural chil·dren.
1. a person between birth and full growth; a boy or girl: books for children.

2. a son or daughter: All my children are married.

3. a baby or infant.

4. a human fetus.

5. a childish person: He's such a child about money."

By definition, not only is a fetus a "child" (definition 2 & 4), but you are a "child".(definition 5)

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#268873
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
I wasn't apologizing. You have reading comprehension issues too, huh?
The discussion was about abortions. Hence my use of the medical definition of abortion. Also, LynneD's own source confirmed that even if the fetus is dead, the woman is still pregnant if it remains in her uterus.
No it didn't confirm that, lol. A missed miscarriage is when the woman's body [failed to notice] the "loss of the baby". The woman doesn't know she's no longer pregnant, but she isn't, reagrdless of whether she knows it or not.

http://www.pregnancyetc.com/what-is-a-missed-...
"... With a missed miscarriage, the woman has no exterior symptoms of losing the pregnancy because the body fails to "notice" the loss of the baby....

... As a result, the fetal tissue is not immediately expelled by the uterus....

...Although there may be no typical signs of a miscarriage, for a woman suffering a missed miscarriage, she may stop feeling the symptoms of pregnancy, such as nausea, tender breasts, etc..."

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#268874
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
No, obviously you did NOT understand the discussion, or you wouldn't have asked your question again. Which IS, by the way, unanswerable as one does not miscarry a child. Children are already born, and by that time there is no pregnancy to end.
Once again, the discussion was not about a complete miscarriage, but a MISSED MISCARRIAGE, where the fetus does not naturally expel.
Now, perhaps you will answer the questions I asked LynneD. Could you please explain to us all what a missed period is, or a missed appointment?
You look so stupid each time you post your ignorance about a missed miscarriage, and also each time you try to compare it to a missed appt. or period.

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#268875
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but a fetus is neither.
Proof of your mind boggling ignorance.

A fetus IS someone's son or daughter, and anyone who has had a baby and isn't one of you pro-choice boneheads knows it for a fact. Ultra sounds can prove it by 4 months. The gender is determined at week 7.

The child is often given a name by his or her parents in 2nd tri-mester.

So yes, a fetus is either someone's son or daughter.

Even trying to make the claim that it is neither only displays your ridiculousness, senselessness, and sheer stupidity.

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#268876
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, but a fetus is neither.
And...
A fetus IS someone's child.

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#268877
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
You're an idiot.
What fetus? I'm not pregnant.
No, it was either a male or a female fetus in my uterus when I was pregnant.
Deal with it.
And try to pay better attention to the conversations you insert yourself into.
Sassy said your fetus was either your son or daughter, and you answered:
"No, it was either a male or a female fetus in my uterus when I was pregnant."

You're insane if you think that answer proved Sassy wrong, or proved you right that it wasn't your son (male) or daughter (female), moron.

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#268878
Dec 7, 2012
 
worships reality wrote:
<quoted text>
sorry, you apologized.
<quoted text>
the discussion involved you saying a woman carrying a dead fetus was still pregnant. hence, you were wrong.
how does it feel?
<quoted text>
it confirmed no such thing. that was your interpretation of her source.
by definition ( medical definition) a woman carrying a dead fetus is not pregnant.
damn you're stupid.
Exactly.

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#268879
Dec 7, 2012
 
No Relativism wrote:
<quoted text>
Bhitler: "MISSED MISCARRIAGE"
__________
ICD-10-CM Diagnosis Code O02.1
Missed abortion
•Retention in uterus of an abortus that has been dead at least 4 weeks.
Applicable To
•Early fetal death, before completion of 20 weeks of gestation, with retention of dead fetus
Excludes:
•failed induced abortion
•fetal death (intrauterine)(late)
•missed abortion with blighted ovum
•missed abortion with hydatidiform mole
•missed abortion with nonhydatidiform
•missed abortion with other abnormal products of conception
•missed delivery
•stillbirth
http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/O00-O9...
"Missed abortion
•Retention in uterus of an abortus that has been dead at least 4 weeks."

Yes, an "abortus" is a fetus that ABORTED at less than 12 weeks. In the case of a missed miscarriage and for anyone who's not a pc bonehead, that means spontaneously aborted. It's still in utero but it's dead. Pregnancy is done, "abortion" already happened when fetus died, fetus just hasn't spontaneously expelled from body yet.

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#268880
Dec 7, 2012
 

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Katie wrote:
<quoted text>
If you knew you'd miscarried, you'd answer No, you were not pregnant because the spontaneous abortion is complete.
If you hadn't realized you'd miscarried, you'd answer Yes, you are pregnant because the spontaneous was not complete.
Pretty basic stuff, JM.
Not realizing you've miscarried in no way means you are still pregnant. Only that you THINK you are. Medically, you're not.

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#268881
Dec 7, 2012
 
AyakaNeo wrote:
<quoted text>I would answer I am pregnant but there is no heartbeat, I am going in for a D&C tomorrow to terminate the pregnancy so we can try to get pregnant again as soon as possible.
LOL, sure you would. Any reasonable person knows a woman would say she "lost the baby".

You people lie like rugs.
STO

Vallejo, CA

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Dec 7, 2012
 

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lil Lily wrote:
<quoted text>
So nice of you to come out of the woodwork to offer condolences.
Noticed your isp says Cypress, CA. Also noticed a post made by a poster whose isp was Cypress CA, just to post insults, and the name wasn't pbfa. I thought it might be STO, but it was more than likely, you. You pro-choicers make it appear as though you're not posting here, but you people are, under different monikers.
Funny whenever you hypocrites try to accuse others of supposedly being so dishonest, according to you PC, for supposedly doing what you PCers do; post here not using your usual moniker.
You're paranoid.

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