Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on ...

Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on Black Churches

There are 9647 comments on the The Skanner story from Mar 1, 2012, titled Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on Black Churches. In it, The Skanner reports that:

With Maryland poised to legalize gay marriage, some conservative opponents and religious leaders are counting on members of their congregations, especially in black churches, to upend the legislation at the polls this fall.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Skanner.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#9390 Dec 29, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
No...not a SECULAR document establishing a SECULAR republic. That is nuts.
It established a FREE republic. Secular means apart from religion. The Constitution provides the freedom of religious expression and practice without government intervention.
You secularists just love to rewrite history to silence religion and its influence in the public square but the constitution was intended to do the opposite.
Since the Constitution establishes no teligion (while guranteeing religious freedom); since it akcnowledged no religion as the official religion of the USA; then the Constitution creates a republic separate from, apart from (call it what you will) religion.
In short, a secular republic. As for trying to "silence religion in the public square," the Constitution makes no laws intended to either express or silence religion.
The Constitution is a SECULAR document. The freedom of the free republic is largely due to that secularism.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#9391 Dec 29, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
Sorry, Brian. GLBT's made the decision not to be intimidated by those who would cause us harm long ago. Consider the danger accepted by the small group of marchers in the first NYC Pride. Consider the danger that they've accepted in Russia and even Uganda.
Gay rights are human rights; don't undersell yourself. Every life has infinite value.

.
nhjeff wrote:
Brian, we're not scared of you. Not scared enough to run and hide, anyway.
I'm not threat, I've never written anything against homosexuals. I've always written there is nothing wrong with homosexuals or homosexuality.

I never write insults; I want my posts to appeal to Conservative gays and lesbians. We can work together for human rights or stopping special rights that will turn around and bite. Not everything you get from the government is good.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#9392 Dec 29, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
Hey you lying POC: Don't you remember just threatening us to stop fighting for our rights or risk being set upon roving bands of homophobes?...
^^^This is defamation; I've never written anything against homosexuals. Many gays don't want same sex marriage; homosexuals aren't a monolithic group when it comes to the issue of marriage.

Homosexuals have always married under the same laws as everyone else, Oscar Wilde and Meredith Baxter for examples.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#9393 Dec 29, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Gay rights are human rights; don't undersell yourself. Every life has infinite value.
.
<quoted text>I'm not threat, I've never written anything against homosexuals. I've always written there is nothing wrong with homosexuals or homosexuality.
I never write insults; I want my posts to appeal to Conservative gays and lesbians. We can work together for human rights or stopping special rights that will turn around and bite. Not everything you get from the government is good.
How much value do these starving children have Brian?

http://beta.photobucket.com/images/starving%2...

Around 18,000 die each day.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9394 Dec 29, 2012
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
Since the Constitution establishes no teligion (while guranteeing religious freedom); since it akcnowledged no religion as the official religion of the USA; then the Constitution creates a republic separate from, apart from (call it what you will) religion.
In short, a secular republic. As for trying to "silence religion in the public square," the Constitution makes no laws intended to either express or silence religion.
The Constitution is a SECULAR document. The freedom of the free republic is largely due to that secularism.
No...you are completely wrong. You just WANT to call it secular because you want our society to be free of religious influence.

You should visit Washington sometime. The influence of religion on our country's founding is literally inscribed in the walls (in stone no less). From Moses and the 10 Commandments at the Supreme Court to several verses at the Lincoln memorial the influence of religion on our founding is undeniable.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#9395 Dec 29, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>^^^This is defamation; I've never written anything against homosexuals. Many gays don't want same sex marriage; homosexuals aren't a monolithic group when it comes to the issue of marriage.
Homosexuals have always married under the same laws as everyone else, Oscar Wilde and Meredith Baxter for examples.
Hey you lying POC![That was a mere observation, not an insult.] I don't care who does the threatening. You want gays and lesbians to hide and cower because, you tell us, someone else is going to do bad things to us.

You are no different than a well-dressed mafia boss asking a store-owner to make his latest insurance payment while two large thugs walk around the store with baseball bats. It doesn't matter who does the dirty work. You're still using the treat of violence to make us stay in--what you consider--our place.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#9396 Dec 29, 2012
WasteWater wrote:
How much value do these starving children have Brian?[URL deleted] Around 18,000 die each day.
That's tragic but it doesn't change the fact; every life has infinite value.

I hope every reader sees, W.W. is arguing against the value of life. This is where we differ.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#9397 Dec 29, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
Hey you lying POC![That was a mere observation, not an insult.] I don't care who does the threatening. You want gays and lesbians to hide and cower because, you tell us, someone else is going to do bad things to us.
No, I'm saying the statement above is untrue. N. is using defamation, not argument. I've never said 'gays and lesbians to hide and cower', that was N. in his false claim above.

I've observed, backlash and scapegoating are well known and documented historical and political acts. They aren't right but they do exist.
.
nhjeff wrote:
You are no different than a well-dressed mafia boss asking a store-owner to make his latest insurance payment while two large thugs walk around the store with baseball bats. It doesn't matter who does the dirty work. You're still using the treat of violence to make us stay in--what you consider--our place.
The homosexual's place is alongside everyone else; there is nothing wrong with homosexuals or homosexuality.

I see some same sex marriage supporters using falsehoods, threats of economic harm by boycotts and vilification of political opponents. That doesn't make all homosexuals bad; it just means those arguments for same sex marriage are bad.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#9398 Dec 29, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
No...you are completely wrong. You just WANT to call it secular because you want our society to be free of religious influence.
You should visit Washington sometime. The influence of religion on our country's founding is literally inscribed in the walls (in stone no less). From Moses and the 10 Commandments at the Supreme Court to several verses at the Lincoln memorial the influence of religion on our founding is undeniable.
Are you trying to say that only people with the exact same religious beliefs as you do should be able to make/change laws?

Who gets to decide which specific religious denomination will hold sway in the government and determine our laws and beliefs? Catholics? Methodists? Baptists? MCC? United Church of Christ?

Who?

What if the denomination in charge marries gay folks? Would you drop all of your objections?

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#9399 Dec 29, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes...gay activists have infiltrated some denominations and turned them away from Biblical teaching.
......
Or, many gay people have accepted Christ as their Savior, and, by their fellow Christians coming to know them personally, the irrational prejudice has begun to fall away.

Sounds more logical to me.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#9400 Dec 29, 2012
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Gay rights are human rights; don't undersell yourself. Every life has infinite value.
.
<quoted text>I'm not threat, I've never written anything against homosexuals........
You only believe that our families should have a lesser value and lesser recognition and protections.

That's a threat to our families, and to us.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#9401 Dec 29, 2012
Quest wrote:
You only believe that our families should have a lesser value and lesser recognition and protections.
That's completely untrue, if homosexuals marry according to the laws of the state, then they have the same value and recognition. If anyone violates our law, then obviously, that causes harm and should be punished. There is no orientation test for a marriage license.

.
Quest wrote:
That's a threat to our families, and to us.
The threats and untruths are told by same sex marriage supporters. They cause economic harm to political opponents with boycotts and vilify them by calling all protectors of marriage 'homophobes' and bigots.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#9402 Dec 29, 2012
Denial of equal treatment under the law harms gay people in a wide variety of ways. The legal marriages of gay people are not recognized equally to the legal marriages of straight couples from the same jurisdiction. This is legalized discrimination, which results in stigamtization, dehumanization, and further abuse.

Dr. Chris Beyrer, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Public Health: "We know for certain that lesbian and gay individuals suffer harm to their physical and psychological health, and to their relationships and quality of life, as result of the shame, isolation and stigma accrued from their social and legal disenfranchisement."

The American Psychological Association : "Prejudice and discrimination have social and personal impact." "The widespread prejudice, discrimination, and violence to which lesbians and gay men are often subjected are significant mental health concerns. Sexual prejudice, sexual orientation discrimination, and anti-gay violence are major sources of stress for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Although social support is crucial in coping with stress, anti-gay attitudes and discrimination may make it difficult for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to find such support."

The Ca. Supreme Court: "While retention of the limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples is not needed to preserve the rights and benefits of opposite-sex couples, the exclusion of same sex couples from the designation of marriage works a real and appreciable harm upon same-sex couples and their children." (In re marriage, p.117)

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#9403 Dec 29, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
No...you are completely wrong. You just WANT to call it secular because you want our society to be free of religious influence.
You should visit Washington sometime. The influence of religion on our country's founding is literally inscribed in the walls (in stone no less). From Moses and the 10 Commandments at the Supreme Court to several verses at the Lincoln memorial the influence of religion on our founding is undeniable.
In a sociey in which most people are religious I don't expect the country to be "free of religious influences." Only those influences must be volunatry, not imposed by law, and no imposed on people who prefer to be free of religion.
Now this may surprise you, and some fellow seculars may not even agree. But I do not even object to religous expression in public schools providing it is volunatry, and not part of the school program.
if a group of Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or atheistic students and teachers want to give expression to their beliefs--and on their own time--so be it.
But the teacher may not convoke a prayer service in his or her class. And the school administration cannot make that a part of its daily official business.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#9404 Dec 29, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
No...you are completely wrong. You just WANT to call it secular because you want our society to be free of religious influence.
You should visit Washington sometime. The influence of religion on our country's founding is literally inscribed in the walls (in stone no less). From Moses and the 10 Commandments at the Supreme Court to several verses at the Lincoln memorial the influence of religion on our founding is undeniable.
By the way, the influence of religion is one thing and its legal status is another.
As for the influence of religion on the founding of the American republic, that influence does not take the form of law.
Again, the Constitution does not even mention God. It begins with "We the PEOPLE."
And while you may not be aware of this, even mnetion of the Creator in the Declaration of Independence is not an allusion to the god of Judaism or Christianity. For the author first refers to the deity ad "Nature's God"---which is the god of DEISM. a secular idea of the Enlightenment.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9405 Dec 29, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you trying to say that only people with the exact same religious beliefs as you do should be able to make/change laws?
Who gets to decide which specific religious denomination will hold sway in the government and determine our laws and beliefs? Catholics? Methodists? Baptists? MCC? United Church of Christ?
Who?
What if the denomination in charge marries gay folks? Would you drop all of your objections?
Of course not.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9406 Dec 29, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Or, many gay people have accepted Christ as their Savior, and, by their fellow Christians coming to know them personally, the irrational prejudice has begun to fall away.
Sounds more logical to me.
"Irrational prejudice" is not the issue within the church. One either believes what the Bible clearly says or does not.

And allow me to clarify...these people have infiltrated LEADERSHIP within these small, isolated denominations.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9407 Dec 29, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Denial of equal treatment under the law harms gay people in a wide variety of ways. The legal marriages of gay people are not recognized equally to the legal marriages of straight couples from the same jurisdiction. This is legalized discrimination, which results in stigamtization, dehumanization, and further abuse.
Dr. Chris Beyrer, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Public Health: "We know for certain that lesbian and gay individuals suffer harm to their physical and psychological health, and to their relationships and quality of life, as result of the shame, isolation and stigma accrued from their social and legal disenfranchisement."
The American Psychological Association : "Prejudice and discrimination have social and personal impact." "The widespread prejudice, discrimination, and violence to which lesbians and gay men are often subjected are significant mental health concerns. Sexual prejudice, sexual orientation discrimination, and anti-gay violence are major sources of stress for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Although social support is crucial in coping with stress, anti-gay attitudes and discrimination may make it difficult for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to find such support."
The Ca. Supreme Court: "While retention of the limitation of marriage to opposite-sex couples is not needed to preserve the rights and benefits of opposite-sex couples, the exclusion of same sex couples from the designation of marriage works a real and appreciable harm upon same-sex couples and their children." (In re marriage, p.117)
Legalizing gay marriage only legitimizes harmful and sinful behavior resulting in more suffering for a group that needs to find true hope in God.

"We must have great respect for these people who also suffer and who want to find their own way of correct living. On the other hand, to create a legal form of a kind of homosexual marriage, in reality, does not help these people."
Pope Benedict XVI

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9408 Dec 29, 2012
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
In a sociey in which most people are religious I don't expect the country to be "free of religious influences." Only those influences must be volunatry, not imposed by law, and no imposed on people who prefer to be free of religion.
Now this may surprise you, and some fellow seculars may not even agree. But I do not even object to religous expression in public schools providing it is volunatry, and not part of the school program.
if a group of Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu or atheistic students and teachers want to give expression to their beliefs--and on their own time--so be it.
But the teacher may not convoke a prayer service in his or her class. And the school administration cannot make that a part of its daily official business.
Agreed.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9409 Dec 29, 2012
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>
By the way, the influence of religion is one thing and its legal status is another.
As for the influence of religion on the founding of the American republic, that influence does not take the form of law.
Again, the Constitution does not even mention God. It begins with "We the PEOPLE."
And while you may not be aware of this, even mnetion of the Creator in the Declaration of Independence is not an allusion to the god of Judaism or Christianity. For the author first refers to the deity ad "Nature's God"---which is the god of DEISM. a secular idea of the Enlightenment.
Yes...I am aware of the beliefs of Jefferson and other key founding fathers. Actually, it was the less religious ones that had the greatest influence in religious freedom.

But if you are stating that religious ideas or morals don't become law you are incorrect. Look at the sodomy laws. It happens all the time.

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