Atheists on the march in America

[john]

Been away with the atheist flu and no longer give this charade of a forum the benefit of reading about their disbelief. Feel free to provide that post # of the position you are willing to defend for the creation of the universe. Now make sure it adheres to the observable and repeatable standard litmus test that only limited thinking allows. Stump an antitheist! Ask him what he believes.

[Fishbait]

john wrote:

Been away with the atheist flu and no longer give this charade of a forum the benefit of reading about their disbelief. Feel free to provide that post # of the position you are willing to defend for the creation of the universe. Now make sure it adheres to the observable and repeatable standard litmus test that only limited thinking allows. Stump an antitheist! Ask him what he believes.

Did you spit the mot hoop?

[Charlie]

NotBuyingIt wrote:

<quoted text>
How can you say they have been successful?
We KNOW that if you can not manage your family lineage - your chances of incest increase - and we KNOW incest increases the changes for genetic propensities to become more prevalent.
<quoted text>
No the MOST compelling reasons have nothing to do with religion at all - but science, psychology and law.
<quoted text>Take out religion and there are still scientific, psychological and legal reasons.

Nope! Monogamy exists in Western countries solely because of Christian religion.

[Charlie]

NotBuyingIt wrote:

<quoted text>
And jews have been around since way before that.. so what? your point is ad hoc.
And before that christianity was spread likewise - islam is just the 'johnny come lately' religion.
Again - another ad hoc argument.
So did the catholic empire... more ad hoc.

You are wrong on that. The Muslim Empire was much earlier than Christianity by several centuries. Christianity did not spread beyond the borders of Europe until the colonial period beginning with the voyage of Christopher Columbus at the end of the 15th Century and reaching its greatest expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries. The Muslim Empire, by this time, was already well established and encompassed the territories from India to Spain, Russia to Africa.

If anyone was the 'johnny come lately' it was Christianity.

Perhaps it started as a religious stigma - but now its biology and genetics that warned of the dangers of increased odds of problems. Decreased chances of disease is only highly regarded by the sane I suppose.

Historically, societies did not rely on biological science and genetics to understand the effects of incestuous relationships. Their religion warned them of this. How did religion know?

Of course!(Smacks forehead!) God knows!

[coughnuroff]

the serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>
It is not faith in atheism. It is simply a lack of evidence to the contrary. I have not had anything happen in my life that I cannot explain(with the exception of the thought processes of my ex-wife), with science or reason.

Yep. You asked for her hand in marriage and it's been in your wallet ever since.

[Charlie]

Actually, the real myth is a godless universe. Ask an atheist to explain the existence of the universe and he'll say in all earnestness and with a straight face that it all happened by accident. This explanation is even less believable than saying God did it!

Logic in this case compels one to choose the least IMPLAUSIBLE of the two explanations, and the God hypothesis proves to be the least implausible.

Postulating a universe of such order and harmony happening purely by accident is myth making in its own way. This is the atheist's fantasy!

[Charlie]

the serpent was right wrote:

<quoted text>
It is not faith in atheism. It is simply a lack of evidence to the contrary. I have not had anything happen in my life that I cannot explain(with the exception of the thought processes of my ex-wife), with science or reason.

Explain the existence of the universe, then!

[Charlie]

Edthirty wrote:

<quoted text>
A better way to phrase that would have been "there would be less war." Given man's violent nature which those of faith loathe to admit as God's creation, it appears he'll always have a reason to be at war with himself.

In those parts of the world where there was no religion the situation was even worse. There were no human rights, there were deaths by the hundreds of millions, there was state tyranny and totalitarian regimes, there was more war. I'm speaking of the communist countries, of course, who believed very much the way you and karl44 believe; that without religion, the world would be a better place.

You have all been wrong.

The problem isn't religion per se. The problem is wrong religion, false religion.

[jack13]

Charlie wrote:

<quoted text>
Explain the existence of the universe, then!

Explain why it took 5 BILLION years that the universe has been expanding, that god just got around to creating human 10 thousand years ago?

[jack13]

Charlie wrote:

<quoted text>
In those parts of the world where there was no religion the situation was even worse. There were no human rights, there were deaths by the hundreds of millions, there was state tyranny and totalitarian regimes, there was more war. I'm speaking of the communist countries, of course, who believed very much the way you and karl44 believe; that without religion, the world would be a better place.
You have all been wrong.
The problem isn't religion per se. The problem is wrong religion, false religion.

Perhaps they were following the lead of the christian church who sponsored hundreds of wars over the last 2,000 years?

[jack13]

Charlie wrote:

<quoted text>
Nope! Monogamy exists in Western countries solely because of Christian religion.

Crap! Monogamy existed long before christianity in Europe and world wide. Monogamy has existed since the human race evolved. It was a necessary adoption for human off springs to survive. Because of the size of the human skull babies are not born capable of fending for themselves. It takes a male to get the food and protect the off spring of their union. Also there are many animals who are monogamous. Did God cause that also?

[jack13]

Charlie wrote:

<quoted text>
You are wrong on that. The Muslim Empire was much earlier than Christianity by several centuries. Christianity did not spread beyond the borders of Europe until the colonial period beginning with the voyage of Christopher Columbus at the end of the 15th Century and reaching its greatest expansion in the 18th and 19th centuries. The Muslim Empire, by this time, was already well established and encompassed the territories from India to Spain, Russia to Africa.
If anyone was the 'johnny come lately' it was Christianity.
<quoted text>
Historically, societies did not rely on biological science and genetics to understand the effects of incestuous relationships. Their religion warned them of this. How did religion know?
Of course!(Smacks forehead!) God knows!

Were the ancient Greeks christians? They had strict laws against incestuous relatins. Were the ancient Chinese Christians? Incestuous relations could earn you a rapid death sentence in China. Perhaps your religion copied these early cultures? Actually, I think humans know it is wrong to allow incestuous relationships. Even Native American tribes did not allow incestuous relationships. How do you explain that?

[jack13]

john wrote:

Been away with the atheist flu and no longer give this charade of a forum the benefit of reading about their disbelief. Feel free to provide that post # of the position you are willing to defend for the creation of the universe. Now make sure it adheres to the observable and repeatable standard litmus test that only limited thinking allows. Stump an antitheist! Ask him what he believes.

I guess god is punishing you for your bigotry.

[Borg3of7]

Charlie wrote:

Actually, the real myth is a godless universe. Ask an atheist to explain the existence of the universe and he'll say in all earnestness and with a straight face that it all happened by accident. This explanation is even less believable than saying God did it!
Logic in this case compels one to choose the least IMPLAUSIBLE of the two explanations, and the God hypothesis proves to be the least implausible.
Postulating a universe of such order and harmony happening purely by accident is myth making in its own way. This is the atheist's fantasy!

Sorry Charlie....you are completely wrong...the Universe is NOT an ordered, harmonious thing.....it is chaotic and very violent....huge expanses of time & space merely give us short lived creatures the illusion of serenity & harmony. Now it just might be possible that creatures of a higher dimensional order MIGHT exist....but we would never actually know, as there is no communication between dimensions. Your so-called "logic" is short sighted and very flawed....enough so that it can be discounted as false.

[Borg3of7]

Charlie wrote:

<quoted text>
In those parts of the world where there was no religion the situation was even worse. There were no human rights, there were deaths by the hundreds of millions, there was state tyranny and totalitarian regimes, there was more war. I'm speaking of the communist countries, of course, who believed very much the way you and karl44 believe; that without religion, the world would be a better place.
You have all been wrong.
The problem isn't religion per se. The problem is wrong religion, false religion.

once again you state falsehoods and claim them as truths....this is indicative of your mystic foundation....sure communist Russia persecuted mystics,( bad politics if'n you ask me) but that does not imply that a DEMOCRATIC society would follow suit! The problem in our neck o'the woods is that mystics some how feel that they can impose their mystic faiths on all others. Through social evolution and the democratic process we are finally gaining the rights that all should enjoy....such as our children being educated WITH OUT being pummeled by mystic slop! Or shopping on a sunday....or working on a sunday....or.....well you get the picture.

[scambuster]

wolverine wrote:

Not Agnostic As I Have Had Things Happen In My Life That Cannot Be Explained By Science Or Reason! But I Have No Reason To Try To Force My Beliefs On Atheists....Just Conversing And Trying With-out Sucess To Show That Both Sides Are Using Faith To Guide Them !

What's your point though? I believe that some atheists are dogmatic, but atheism requires no faith, only a lack in the belief in the supernatural.

[wolverine]

Well Scambuster...If You Believe That Science Disproves A Creator, You Are Having Faith In Science Theories ! Are You Not ?? Because Proof Eludes Them !

[mdbuilder]

scambuster wrote:

<quoted text>
What's your point though? I believe that some atheists are dogmatic, but atheism requires no faith, only a lack in the belief in the supernatural.

Many atheists aren't satisfied with acknowledging a "lack" of belief, especially on this site. Some go out of their way to attack and ridicule the believers and the doctrines they follow. To me that indicates a certain defensive desperation.

"Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is the presence of fear with the capacity to manage and overcome it."

[scambuster]

wolverine wrote:

Well Scambuster...If You Believe That Science Disproves A Creator, You Are Having Faith In Science Theories ! Are You Not ?? Because Proof Eludes Them !

I don't believe that. I believe that there's no evidence for one. It's not possible to disprove an invisible creator.

[wolverine]

scambuster wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't believe that. I believe that there's no evidence for one. It's not possible to disprove an invisible creator.

And You Cant Prove A Accidental Big Bang...So Whats It Going To Be....You Have To Put Your Faith Into Either ! NowDo You see My Point ??