Commentary: Getting 15,000 to the sta...

Commentary: Getting 15,000 to the stadium should be easy. Just win

There are 18 comments on the Las Cruces Sun-News story from Jun 14, 2008, titled Commentary: Getting 15,000 to the stadium should be easy. Just win. In it, Las Cruces Sun-News reports that:

This column is meant to address the attendance issue that the New Mexico State University football program is facing heading into the new year.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Las Cruces Sun-News.

But first

Las Cruces, NM

#1 Jun 15, 2008
But first the Board of Regents needs to give Boston and Mumme substantial raises for the fine work they are doing! Maybe throw in a free house, some stock options, a profit-sharing plan, etc.
Aggie Fan

Rio Rancho, NM

#2 Jun 15, 2008
What is important to note in the article is the following:

"Instead, a feeble drawing attended the game, listed at 12,268 spectators when in reality, no more than 8,500 fans seemed to be present."

and

"NMSU claimed 7,537 came out for NMSU's Nov. 17 game against Utah State and just 6,937 fans showed up for the season finale against Fresno State. In both instances, the numbers were inflated, as roughly half those totals were actually present."

I attend Aggie Football games. I hate Coach Mumme and believe he is an embarrassment to my alma mater but I go to support the kids playing. Attendance especially in the second half of the season is poor. When the PA guy states the numbers attending, those of us actually there know he is telling a lie. This does nothing to endear us to the corruptible McKinley Boston who as AD is doing everything he can to inflate the numbers. As an Aggie I am ashamed by Boston's lies.

The student athletes are in the middle. Me and my family go to support them. With ticket prices raised again for the upcoming season and knowing Mumme and Boston are behind the program I am unsure how much more me and my family can endure.
Eric

Santa Fe, NM

#3 Jun 15, 2008
To draw the mandated attendance per NCAA regs. and subsequentially have a"winnng" season it is paramount that NMSU establish the following:
1. Adopt a "winning" attitude every game. This requires...
2. Descipline and teamwork from all, players and coaches this in turn will produce...
3. A healthy and conditioned team in which all players, from current vets. to new recruits can contribute to the goals at any given moment.
It seems to me that "Aggie Pride" has been compromised as of late especially in Football. It is time for a "hero" to emerge and instill a sense of urgency in getting our pride back. Afterall "pride" is contagious. Thanks. Loyal Aggie Fan
enuf

United States

#4 Jun 15, 2008
Everything in Division 1 football hinges on recruiting success,you can ramble on about pride,coaching,loyalty,heroes, schedules,etc but look at the actual ranking by services of our recruits and you will get insights on why wins are few and far between unless the schedule is seeded with known weaker foes.We can't recruit because we have no defined media market or regional or national tv exposure outside of our role as designated sacrificial lamb to national powers,not exactly a ringing endorsement for landing talent that will take our program to the next level.We're continue to run massive deficits to stay in the WAC until we are directed to leave and then the Program will be in ashes due to everyone's delusion that we can be competitive in Div.1.The players are doing the best they can with their talent and skills but we have neither the talent nor depth to play in money games which quickly deplete, through injuries ,our already thin depth. Time to rethink,Boston is certainly not going to do it and Hal will be made the scapegoat after this season so he will be gone and the coaching staff is suspect,c'mon, our new defensive coordinator's last stop was coaching in high school and our defensive improvement is the team's most glaring need.I have seen the future and it isn't pretty,at best,more of the same.
DAG

Albuquerque, NM

#5 Jun 15, 2008
Have ticket prices really been raised?

Enuf- I agree recruiting is key to winning. Everything else you said, not so much. I think recruiting has stepped up considerably under Coach Mumme. Lets not forget he's been crippled because of APR sanctions that drastically cut the number of scholarships available. With those woes ending, I feel Mumme has picked up some very talented players to add to our depth (the talent IS there when healthy).

Dr. Boston has been, hands down, the best AD we've had at NMSU in a long time. There is no doubt in my mind about that. To the poster that used a few choice words for Dr. Boston, let me remind you, almost every college in the land inflates attendance. It's hardly a lie or corruptible. Just the nature of the beast.

In conclusion I believe your crystal ball ain't so crystal clear. Their is a glimmer of light for this years football team. And to breakthrough the players and coaching staff, along with the community, are going to need to step up.

Go Aggies.
MHS_AGGIE

Las Cruces, NM

#6 Jun 15, 2008
the aggies really shot themselves inm the foot by trying to take the show away from local HS football. I'm not like those who say the local teams can beat the Aggies but if they do play on friday nights then the local teams will always win, in the attendance category! I Know for a fact that local HS fans are avid Aggie fans but if they have to choose, it will be for their local kids. Not playing on friday night will help but of course you gotta win.
If the aggies want some support they need to try to reach the community, ie. the local HS FOOTBALL PLAYERS cause their momma daddy and families are the ones who go to the games!
Alex

Albuquerque, NM

#7 Jun 15, 2008
MHS-Aggie,

I agree and disagree with your take. One is simply a misunderstanding on yours, and many, parts. ESPN scheduled us for the Friday night game to suit their TV agenda. You can't hold it against the Aggies for playing on that day. Many fans hadn't a conversation about how it was stupid, and how ESPN sucked at researching local markets.

I also wish people would look at the Aggies as a local team. It's not like the guys playing, college students, are getting bussed in every Friday for the game on Saturday. They are a part of the community for four years (hopefully), and in many regards, more than that (ever heard of Charlie Johnson?). They chose to come to Cruces and represent our school. I think it at least garners them the title of a local team. No disrespect to the boys who play at the HSs.

Other than that, I was nodding my head. Aggie marketing must recruit the HS crowd. Invite the freshman, JV, and varsity squads from each HS for three seperate games, and get them in free. Get their family in at a discount or something. But get the families.

Of course, winning cures all ills.
Aggie Fan

Rio Rancho, NM

#8 Jun 15, 2008
DAG wrote:
Dr. Boston has been, hands down, the best AD we've had at NMSU in a long time. There is no doubt in my mind about that. To the poster that used a few choice words for Dr. Boston, let me remind you, almost every college in the land inflates attendance. It's hardly a lie or corruptible. Just the nature of the beast.
It is backward thinking like this that has put our Athletics program in the hole ethically and in the red financially. Boston has been, hands down, one of the worst AD to visit our fair campus. His ineptitude is legendary and for you to suggest that since everyone is breaking the rules that means it's okey-dokey for NMSU to do the same is outright shameful. Is that what you teach your children? "It's all right kids if you cheated on your tests just as long as enough of your classmates were also cheating." That is despicable logic and another reason why discriminatory coaches like Mumme have a job.
aggiefansince83

Las Cruces, NM

#9 Jun 16, 2008
Aggie Fan wrote:
What is important to note in the article is the following:
"Instead, a feeble drawing attended the game, listed at 12,268 spectators when in reality, no more than 8,500 fans seemed to be present."
and
"NMSU claimed 7,537 came out for NMSU's Nov. 17 game against Utah State and just 6,937 fans showed up for the season finale against Fresno State. In both instances, the numbers were inflated, as roughly half those totals were actually present."
I attend Aggie Football games. I hate Coach Mumme and believe he is an embarrassment to my alma mater but I go to support the kids playing. Attendance especially in the second half of the season is poor. When the PA guy states the numbers attending, those of us actually there know he is telling a lie. This does nothing to endear us to the corruptible McKinley Boston who as AD is doing everything he can to inflate the numbers. As an Aggie I am ashamed by Boston's lies.
The student athletes are in the middle. Me and my family go to support them. With ticket prices raised again for the upcoming season and knowing Mumme and Boston are behind the program I am unsure how much more me and my family can endure.
Did it ever occur to you that the reason the reported attendance always seemed higher than the actual number of people in the stadium maybe had to do with NMSU reporting the number of tickets sold as opposed to actual people in the stadium. Before you accuse the university of lying you might want to realize there are 2 ways to report attendance.

And as for the idea of letting the local high school players in for free I believe that would be an NCAA violation. It would have to count as an official recruiting visit.
DAG

Albuquerque, NM

#10 Jun 16, 2008
Aggie Fan wrote:
<quoted text>
It is backward thinking like this that has put our Athletics program in the hole ethically and in the red financially. Boston has been, hands down, one of the worst AD to visit our fair campus. His ineptitude is legendary and for you to suggest that since everyone is breaking the rules that means it's okey-dokey for NMSU to do the same is outright shameful. Is that what you teach your children? "It's all right kids if you cheated on your tests just as long as enough of your classmates were also cheating." That is despicable logic and another reason why discriminatory coaches like Mumme have a job.
You can call my thinking backwards, but what you just showed me was you don't think. Was getting the WAC basketball tournament and tennis tournament inept? Was hiring Reggie Theus inept? Where is this legendary ineptitude coming from? I don't see it. I see Mac trying a lot of things to get all the programs off the ground. As the guy who just posted before me, he's not breaking any NCAA rules in the way NMSU reports attendance. Your lack of knowledge on the subject while preaching upon your high horse is what I find despicable.
DAG

Albuquerque, NM

#11 Jun 16, 2008
aggiefansince83 wrote:
<quoted text>
And as for the idea of letting the local high school players in for free I believe that would be an NCAA violation. It would have to count as an official recruiting visit.
I did not know that. Perhaps NMSU should market to the k-8 crowd instead. Make it much more likely to get the family involved too.
Aggie Fan

Rio Rancho, NM

#12 Jun 16, 2008
DAG wrote:
<quoted text>You can call my thinking backwards, but what you just showed me was you don't think. Was getting the WAC basketball tournament and tennis tournament inept? Was hiring Reggie Theus inept? Where is this legendary ineptitude coming from? I don't see it. I see Mac trying a lot of things to get all the programs off the ground. As the guy who just posted before me, he's not breaking any NCAA rules in the way NMSU reports attendance. Your lack of knowledge on the subject while preaching upon your high horse is what I find despicable.
Getting the WAC - Your ineptitude is showing more and more. The cost of JOINING the WAC was more costly and the fact that NMSU has held three WAC tournaments and is STILL $6,000,000 million in the hole is all I need to know of your brilliant AD. Boston was unable to capitalize on this and the WAC basketball tournament will NEVER be held in LC again. The wind storms ensure that.

Hiring of Theus - He didn't fulfill his contract and when he left early your buddy Mac gave didn't have him pay back the $100,000 fine which was in Theus' contract if he left early.

Hiring of Mumme - This bonehead moved cost NMSU money and reputation. The court costs and settlements alone show this. Instead of firing Mumme he keeps his buddy around.

Introduction of Lasso Larry - Yep this was good 'ol Boston again. This mascot costs thousands of dollars and was rejected by fans. Lasso Larry only lasted one season and was removed. Inept Boston never consulted the Aggie Roping team which informed him AFTER Boston decided he knew what was best mascot wise for NMSU that his Lasso Larry was in fact holding the rope incorrectly. This blunder along with the thousands he paid a firm in El Paso to create the mascot proved disastrous.

Shall I go on? Get your head out of the sand DAG, step off your high and almighty horse and realize you are wrong. You probably work for Boston and now that his partner in crime Martin is leaving you're afraid someone might actually fire Boston for his incompetence and you would be out of a job. Look at the other sports. They are suffering as a result of Mac's leadership because the money isn't there and the wasteful spending will catch up to him.
aggiefansince83

Las Cruces, NM

#13 Jun 16, 2008
Of course NMSU lost money on the WAC tournament. Every school that hosts the WAC tournament loses money on it because the school has to pay the teams that come here and NMSU put up the highest bid and that is why we won to host it for a few years. The school that hosts the WAC tournament always loses money doing so, the winners are hotel and restaurants.
DAG

Albuquerque, NM

#14 Jun 16, 2008
Please. I'm a student at NMSU. And while you continue to harp for a change, I will be patient and supportive. Ever heard of ROI, it doesn't always come over night.

I'm not so blind to say that Mac has been perfect. The Lasso Larry debacle proves that. However, just because Theus was lured by the NBA money, and Mumme has been handcuffed by APR restrictions (and FWIW, I never bought the bogus discrimination charges brought on by under talented family members), doesn't mean Dr. Boston hasn't done a lot of good. Look at the renovations to both AMS and PAC, and the fact we are in a competitive conference with a higher ceiling than the Sun Belt. This has all been helped along by Dr. Boston. So why don't you take off the blinders and see you have proven nothing of your claims of incompetence. In fact all you are showing is your own bias.
Aggie Fan

Las Cruces, NM

#15 Jun 16, 2008
DAG wrote:
(and FWIW, I never bought the bogus discrimination charges brought on by under talented family members) So why don't you take off the blinders and see you have proven nothing of your claims of incompetence. In fact all you are showing is your own bias.
It is sad to know we have students at NMSU that condone and support religious discrimination. The fact is NMSU settled. No one twisted their arm. If Mumme was as innocent as he professed why didn't Boston take it to trial? Spare me he wanted to avoid further cost and time - because NMSU spent a ton of money defending Mumme up until the point they realized he had in fact lied under oath - this was proven when Christian student football players came forward and admitted that Mumme held prayer sessions and told the players of Muslim belief to go somewhere else. So it doesn't matter if you don't "believe" the charges, they were true and NMSU paid a price. BTW, one of the Muslim players was a starting full back but demoted because he didn't pray at the same alter as Mumme. That is simply disgusting.

It is good to know you recognized the Lasso Larry fiasco as it shows a bit of maturity on your part - if you will recall you stated Boston did no wrong and had no ineptitude until I pointed out the facts. So, I did prove his ineptitude.

The upgrades you speak of were already in place long before Boston came aboard. The addition to the Pan Am, the tennis center/courts, the remodeling of the pool - none of that occurred because of Boston.
DAG

Albuquerque, NM

#16 Jun 16, 2008
A quick reply. I don't condone discrimination of any kind. The fact that NMSU settled came as no surprise to me. It is often cheaper to settle than go through the resources of taking something to trial.$165,000 is a drop in the bucket to what it could have cost, even if NMSU and Mumme were found to have done nothing wrong. Poo-poo that argument if you want, but it's not the first time in this overly litigious society that happened. I will research your claim farther about Mumme lying under oath and what the other players said. Your post lacks context.

And I like how you added the player was a starting fullback. He started under Samuels system, which is totally opposite of Mumme's. And Mumme was looking to bring his own players in, who fit his system. It is still my contention that is why he was demoted. Like I said I will research it more throughly.

Please don't put words into my mouth. I never once said Boston did no wrong. And I stand by my opinion that he is not inept at his job, and is one of the best NMSU has ever had. So you didn't prove a thing, the rebranding was not his idea alone. It's a mistake, but still doesn't prove his "legendary" ineptness.

Both new scoreboards at AMS and PAC were installed under Boston's tenure. Who do you suppose was part of securing the necessary funds to purchase those items? What about the northwest entrance at AMS? Yup, Boston too. Can you at least admit the student-athlete community service program he initiated was something he did right?

So it wasn't that quick of a reply, but I will get back to you on some of your other claims, after I research it.
Aggie Fan

Las Cruces, NM

#17 Jun 16, 2008
You must be a realtive of Mumme or a worker for Boston.

Mumme also blamed Samuels after his first season when he went winless. I'll save you the research time - go to ESPN College Football and enjoy his quotes after that season. Mumme claimed he didn't have "his" players in place. Tell me, what excuse after he has another losing year will he use? Perhaps the ghost of Samules haunts NMSU?

Scoreboards - your naivety is sad. The Pan AM scoreboard came because of a donor not Boston. Boston didn't "secure" funding for those. Why do you print lies? The entrance ways to the football stadiums have not been improved but apparently that's what you want to call it.

Here is an idea as you do your research - go talk to the NMSU volley ball players, the cross country team, the swimming/diving team, and softball teams - ask their players and coaches how much they enjoy just being drowned in all the money and improvements from Boston's forward thinking. Oh wait, they are not being drowned in money or seeing improvements but rather experiencing cut backs.

The sarcasm runs deep because it is people like you that post these inane defenses when they simply don't know the truth of the matter - for example Mumme's religious discrimination and Boston's rebranding of Pistol Pete. I do not blame Boston for the entire rebranding of NMSU but he was the driving force behind Lasso Larry. You can't put that manure on someone else's door step.

The Mumme discrimination cost was much higher than $165,000 - remember as you do your research you will find that NMSU had to ante up for several months while the charges moved forward to court. They attempted to get the charges dropped and then tried other legal maneuvering that failed. This costs NMSU money and resources. Glad to know $165K is just a drop in the bucket. You must attend the AD Boston school of finance. It is precisely that kind of thinking and that got NMSU into the red in the first place.
DAG

Albuquerque, NM

#18 Jun 16, 2008
You're short sighted, or possibly just blind. And what is it with you? Just because I don't agree with you I must have some ulterior motive driven by either A) working for Boston B)being a relative of Boston or Mumme. I assure you I am not. I'm pretty much done with this conversation as you take things far too personal.

And guess what Samuels was part of the reason Mumme went 0-12. And Samuels is THE reason why we had APR troubles. Mumme has held his athletes accountable in the classroom.

But it's nice to see you still won't admit any of the good both have done for NMSU.

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