Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Read more

“I want three words:”

Since: Dec 12

"Woman. Atheist. Anarchist."

#206123 Jan 21, 2014
Skum and RRetard;

<quoted text>
Use of condoms to prevent transmission of HIV

Christianity

Catholic
Main article: Catholic Church and AIDS

The Roman Catholic Church opposes condom use between heterosexual couples because it is an artificial form of contraception that does not rely on the functions of the body (and thus also God's will) itself as to whether a conception will occur or not, and the Church believes it also serves to implicitly and inexcusably encourage premarital and extramarital sexuality (and recourse to abortion if the condom fails). The Church therefore promoted the concept of abstinence as the only morally viable course of action. There is still some discussion in the church, particularly in Africa, about whether condoms could be justified, but only if it was already known that one of the partners likely has the virus already. It is considered acceptable for a married couple to use a condom to protect the other partner from infection, but not as a contraceptive.
Dissident groups such as Catholics for Choice disagree with this position.
Pope John Paul II strongly opposed the use of artificial birth control, and rejected the use of condoms to prevent the spread of HIV. Pope Benedict XVI stated in 2005 that condoms were not a sufficient solution to the AIDS crisis, but then in 2009 claimed that AIDS "cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which even aggravates the problems. The Moscow Patriarchate gave support to Benedict XVI's position. In response to Benedict XVI's statements, the United Church of Christ issued a statement encouraging condom distribution at places of worship.
On November 20, 2010, when questioned about the rampant HIV spread in Africa, Pope Benedict XVI suggested that the use of condoms in male prostitution is not a moral solution to stopping AIDS, but could represent a first step in assuming moral responsibility "in the intention of reducing the risk of infection. Vatican City clarifies, after Benedict's statement sows confusion, that the position of the Church on condoms has not changed. It is merely a statement that in homosexual relations, where unnatural contraception is not the main concern, condoms can be seen as moral responsibility in preventing HIV infections. On November 23, 2010, Benedict furthermore stated that the concept of condoms as a lesser evil in preventing HIV infections can be applied to women as well. The use of condoms is the first step in taking responsibility and attempting to prevent the infection of one's partner. The Pope does not say anything about condoms being acceptable as unnatural birth control, only as a responsible approach.

Protestant

Armand Razafimahefa, former head of the Madagascar's Protestant Church, was quoted as saying: "I am firmly opposed to the use of the condom as a means of fighting AIDS, because it promotes promiscuity.
In contrast, many other Protestant denominations have no objection to the use of condoms within the context of a married relationship. Arguably, an infected partner of a married couple has an obligation to use protective measures to safeguard the health of the other partner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_and_HIV...
<quoted text>
Eejits.

“I want three words:”

Since: Dec 12

"Woman. Atheist. Anarchist."

#206124 Jan 21, 2014
Skum and RRetard;

<quoted text>
In 2010, when Pope Benedict XVI opened the door to approve condom use to prevent the transmission of HIV, he opened it just a crack, in a statement so laden with conditions and insult that it was hard to tell whether this was the groundbreaking news many took it to be. Was it an historic change to the church’s longstanding ban on contraceptive use, or waffling rhetoric that altered little more than a headline?

At first, it seemed like big news when Benedict told German journalist Peter Seewald, in his book Light of the World: The Pope, the Church, and the Signs of the Times, that condoms might be permissible in limited situations. But the situations he had in mind were limited indeed: use by male sex workers, for whom trying to prevent HIV transmission could be “a first step in the direction of moralization, a first assumption of responsibility, on the way toward recovering an awareness that not everything is allowed and that one cannot do whatever one wants.” If the condemnation implicit in this statement wasn’t apparent enough, Benedict went further to suggest that illicit sexual relations weren’t quite human, and that condom use was only an option for those so debased that protected sex could constitute “a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality.”

Benedict clarified further that condoms weren’t “really the way to deal with the evil of HIV infection. That can really lie only in a humanization of sexuality,” he said.

Even the further clarification to the news media by the Vatican’s spokesperson, Rev. Federico Lombardi, that the provision was not solely for male prostitutes, was less than fulsome. He said that condom use is “the first step of taking responsibility, of taking into consideration the risk of the life of another with whom you have a relationship. This is if you’re a woman, a man, or a transsexual. We’re at the same point.”

Conservative Catholics rushed to emphasize that Benedict had made no statement addressing condom use within marriage, and thus his statements had no bearing on most Catholics’ sexual lives—that the status quo still reigned. Nonetheless, headlines trumpeted the news as a revolution for the church. Two years later, what it has meant on the ground in countries dealing with epidemic levels of HIV & AIDS is far from clear.

HIV & AIDS advocates have long maintained that the Catholic ban on condom use, though largely ignored in the West, has led to devastating results in developing countries dependent on humanitarian aid, which is often filtered through Catholic or other religious groups. Because Catholic leadership discourages the use of condoms, or religious relief organizations block their distribution, hundreds of millions are left more exposed to disease. Just the year before Seewald’s book was published, in 2009, the pope himself asserted that condoms don’t solve the AIDS crisis, but make it worse by encouraging promiscuity. It’s an attitude shared by many other faith-based NGOs working on the ground in HIV & AIDS hotspots.

ARV drugs photographed on a kitchen table.(Photo by Steve Simon)
One development worker who has tracked the distribution of condoms in African countries, and who requested to speak off the record, illustrated what the ban can mean in countries like Zambia. There, a generalized AIDS crisis has left approximately 13.5% of the adult population HIV-positive according to 2009 estimates. In 2003, AIDS reduced the life expectancy of Zambians to the lowest in the world, at just 33 years old. While the recent availability of antiretroviral (ARV) medical treatment has been transformative, Zambia is still a country where public awareness campaigns note the obvious: every family is either “infected or affected” by the crisis.
http://churchandstate.org.uk/2012/12/the-cath...
<quoted text>
Jethros.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206125 Jan 21, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
I got to experience and be a part of this amazing Universe for over 5 decades. What more reward do I need ?
Why do people want so much from God ?
Well I think if someone is going to be tested like that than there ought to be a reward for passing

But I agree in general. Even with all the bad stuff, if I died tomorrow I would have very few regrets. It's been an interesting journey. And one with way more blessings than I earned and way less punishment than I probably deserved. It's been a pretty good life all in all.

I used to be petrified of dying through like middle school. Used to freak me out thinking about how if I died I might not even have another conscience thought again and even though I wouldn't know that was no consolation as ceasing to exist just freaked me the heck out. But I have lived a lot of life since then. Whenever the end comes, I have no complaints regardless of what happens after

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206126 Jan 21, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the story. Job DID "break". This notion that Job has unwavering faith is a myth. It is not in the story. He demanded of God to know "Why". He didn't get the answer he expected either. God (basically) said "Who do you ignorant humans think you are to question ME ? You are nothing in the grand scheme of things."
Note also that according to the authors of the book (the Jews) it is a work of fiction. There was no man called Job and the events in the book never took place. It is as factual as Aesop's fables. It is a made up story to convey a deeper message. Not history.
Well I see questioning as simply a natural human reaction

But he remained faithful and that was the test. Not that he wouldn't so much as ask why. If anything the answer should have made it more difficult yet he didn't abandon his faith

“I want three words:”

Since: Dec 12

"Woman. Atheist. Anarchist."

#206127 Jan 21, 2014
Skum and RRetard;

<quoted text>
MADAGASCAR: Protestant church against condoms in AIDS battle

Johannesburg, 4 October 2004 (IRIN)- Religious leaders threaten to hamper Madagascar's plans to distribute 15 million free condoms in 2005 as an HIV/AIDS prevention method.

Agence France-Presse quoted Armand Razafimahefa, former head of the island's protestant church, as saying: "I am firmly opposed to the use of the condom as a means of fighting AIDS, because it promotes promiscuity."

Razafimahefa suggested that the money used on condom promotion be used for HIV vaccine research instead.

With research showing a rising prevalence rate of 0.16 percent in 2000 to just over one percent currently, AIDS experts are concerned that Madagascar has entered a phase where AIDS will become generalised.
http://www.irinnews.org/report/37565/madagasc...
<quoted text>
Buffoons.
ROCCO

Desert Hot Springs, CA

#206128 Jan 21, 2014
="RiversideRedneck"]
RiversideRedneck wrote:
The one Catcher believes doesn't believe in .....
<[QUOTEquoted text>
Y whoup.
It's the age-old tale of the hypocritical atheist that claims not to believe in deities but blames the Christian God for "bad things".
It's amazing.[/QUOTE]

Evidence abounds that "Christian God" does nothing, especially given that there is no evidence of such god despite overwhelmingly ample "faith" in same by some, even many.

Believers in it are responsible for the "bad" done in its name. Yes, you may include yourself in that revelation.

That way, they (and you) can avoid taking responsibility for their own behavior and actions.

While I'm at it, just a curious aside: If you truly have a paying job and a family, is there a good explanation why you don't give them as much time as you give to Topix? "Quality time", especially? Treading water suffices for you, does it?

If you truly have a boss who doesn't care that you usurp so much of the time you're paid to work (and don't), and a wife and kids who truly don't mind you piddling away so much of the time you could otherwise spend with them (assuming they're not at all unhappy that you ignore them in favor of some other activity [Topix]), and bearing in mind you have laid out your excuses for not advancing your education..........why won't/don't you now take advantage of all this free time you have (evidenced by your time devoted to Topix), and go ahead and further your education for the betterment of yourself AND your family?(I know, I know, MYOB.)

Of course, I've assumed you are filthy rich and have no need for anything of value to usurp your time (other than the time you spend trying to prove to us there's a god while failing to prove to us there is one, indeed, by demonstrating anything other than lip service to it while proving by your behavior that you're a complete and utter asshole with no discernible redeeming qualities while doing so).

You're a fraud. Based on the number of your posts, and the audience you've engaged, a compelling one (maybe even interesting/entertaining one); but a fraud, nonetheless. It's somewhat sad that you've found it necessary to project the asshole persona that you do (and even sadder since it probably is what you really are).

I anticipate a smart ass reply, if any at all. I have a reasonably good idea what to expect from you (not much of consequence). I'm not prone to exchanging much conversation with compulsive, windbag know-it-alls, so an acknowledgment (or not) of my post really isn't important to me. What was important for me was to present you with what I have.......fait accompli.

Thanks for letting me introduce myself. You may even assume I'm an atheist if you wish (which would be an incorrect assumption; I've simply not concluded which god to believe in, if any, and have reserved the right to deliberate the matter further to my satisfaction - although I have deduced that yours doesn't measure up to my requirements).

Rocco

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206129 Jan 21, 2014
To the whack job posting links, try reading them all the way thru!

LOL they support what we said

And further illustrate how the conflicting message in trying to teach the faith and accept certain realities is where the challenge is. And that they have softened their stance on it but the main way of battling it is to humanize the problem as they disagree with the morality of people going around sleeping with whomever out of wedlock

Did you spin your 'belief wheel' today? What did it land on? I am curious what you are claiming to be today

:)

Too bad your "mental health" wheel just says whack job in every slot!

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#206130 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Well I think if someone is going to be tested like that than there ought to be a reward for passing
But I agree in general. Even with all the bad stuff, if I died tomorrow I would have very few regrets. It's been an interesting journey. And one with way more blessings than I earned and way less punishment than I probably deserved. It's been a pretty good life all in all.
I used to be petrified of dying through like middle school. Used to freak me out thinking about how if I died I might not even have another conscience thought again and even though I wouldn't know that was no consolation as ceasing to exist just freaked me the heck out. But I have lived a lot of life since then. Whenever the end comes, I have no complaints regardless of what happens after
I know people who have suffered far more than Job, many of them had, and kept, more faith/trust in God than Job did.

It may be that because your concept of "faith" does not include "unquestioning obedience" that you do not see Job's demands for answers to be a breach of faith.
You are not the typical Christian. Probably why I like your posts. <smile>

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#206131 Jan 21, 2014
wilderide wrote:
It has been demonstrated over and over again that, like communism, abstinence only works in theory, not in practice. Therefore, what is the moral culpability to an organization who rejects more effective preventative measures in favor of an ideology that has been proven not to work?
Safe sex DOES work in practice.
You can never expect faith based thinkers to do the right thing when it stands in conflict with what they believe their deity wants them to do.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206132 Jan 21, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
Skum and RRetard;
<quoted text>
MADAGASCAR: Protestant church against condoms in AIDS battle
Johannesburg, 4 October 2004 (IRIN)- Religious leaders threaten to hamper Madagascar's plans to distribute 15 million free condoms in 2005 as an HIV/AIDS prevention method.
Agence France-Presse quoted Armand Razafimahefa, former head of the island's protestant church, as saying: "I am firmly opposed to the use of the condom as a means of fighting AIDS, because it promotes promiscuity."
Razafimahefa suggested that the money used on condom promotion be used for HIV vaccine research instead.
With research showing a rising prevalence rate of 0.16 percent in 2000 to just over one percent currently, AIDS experts are concerned that Madagascar has entered a phase where AIDS will become generalised.
http://www.irinnews.org/report/37565/madagasc...
<quoted text>
Buffoons.
Again stupid, they are opposed to the message of sleep with whoever you want just wear a rubber

They want the main argument to be it is immoral to sleep around with strangers. That is what they teach.

They are not the health department. They are a religious ideology that believes in sex only between those that are married

But it has been maintained any Christian organization whose purpose is to combat AIDS would not tell people to have unprotected sex with strangers

But the church's position as a faith is the way to avoid AIDS is monogamy and abstinence. If someone doesn't want to follow that instruction that is their choice

This is nothing different than what RR and I have been saying

Looks like the wheel has come up on crazy again

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#206133 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Well I see questioning as simply a natural human reaction
But he remained faithful and that was the test. Not that he wouldn't so much as ask why. If anything the answer should have made it more difficult yet he didn't abandon his faith
OK. Since we are having the only theological discussion here, let's continue.

What "faith" did Job have ? What verses from Job demonstrate his faith ?

It is hard to be a atheist when God is right is front of you, so "belief" isn't "faith" in this instance.

What did Job have faith in ?
Remember that in the earliest versions of the story Job does not get any reward at the end.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206134 Jan 21, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
I know people who have suffered far more than Job, many of them had, and kept, more faith/trust in God than Job did.
It may be that because your concept of "faith" does not include "unquestioning obedience" that you do not see Job's demands for answers to be a breach of faith.
You are not the typical Christian. Probably why I like your posts. <smile>
:)

I question everything!

I am getting better however at accepting I won't always get an answer or the one I was hoping for

(T) Peace

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#206135 Jan 21, 2014
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
You can never expect faith based thinkers to do the right thing when it stands in conflict with what they believe their deity wants them to do.
Not only that.

Their god comes first, no matter what.

Family be damned.

“I want three words:”

Since: Dec 12

"Woman. Atheist. Anarchist."

#206136 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>It is a tale of how strong Job's faith was. Nothing could tear it down.
A borrowed tale much older than your babble.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206137 Jan 21, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. Since we are having the only theological discussion here, let's continue.
What "faith" did Job have ? What verses from Job demonstrate his faith ?
It is hard to be a atheist when God is right is front of you, so "belief" isn't "faith" in this instance.
What did Job have faith in ?
Remember that in the earliest versions of the story Job does not get any reward at the end.
Well by faith in this instance I don't mean belief without proof but rather he did not turn his back on God

Despite the tribulations he faced he stayed loyal to God

The reward I am referring to is eternal life and other things received in Heaven, not any Earthly rewards

“I want three words:”

Since: Dec 12

"Woman. Atheist. Anarchist."

#206138 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>The Topix Atheists! have no right to bitch.

Christians have been doing what they can in Africa for a long time.

If atheists want to hand out condoms all over Africa, they should get off their ass and do it, instead of complaining that someone isn't doing it for them.
All they've done is make the AIDS epidemic grow exponentially.

“What's left to defend?”

Since: Jan 11

Freedom

#206139 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
It is a tale of how strong Job's faith was. Nothing could tear it down.
It's a tale of insanity.

“I want three words:”

Since: Dec 12

"Woman. Atheist. Anarchist."

#206140 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Try a vinegar and water solution. It's natural, organic, and you can use the runoff on your fish and chips.
LOL

Good post but oh the imagery.

“I want three words:”

Since: Dec 12

"Woman. Atheist. Anarchist."

#206141 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>Nah. Not Christians.

We'll stick to teaching morals.

You atheists can hand out the free condoms.

Get to it.
Yeah, morals. Yet AIDS is rampant wherever there is christian involvement.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#206142 Jan 21, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
A borrowed tale much older than your babble.
Really?

I know next to nothing about religion.

When I was in college, I could have taken History of Religion or Philosophy of Religion.

I had no interest. I took lots of other history courses, literature, philosophy, political science, Dante, that sort of stuff.

In hindsight, I wish I had taken one of those two courses.

I could make a better contribution here.

This is a musing, not a post.

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