Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258471 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#206161 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>Prove it

And are the places whose message is "Don't do drugs" responsible for the spread of AIDS among IV users?

That is some brilliant logic you got there

Try personal responsibility for who is to blame for the spread of AIDS

Oh wait, I forgot, you don't do personal responsibility
The proof is everywhere, AIDS is more rampant in countries with high christian influence. It's not up to me to try to make you understand words and statistics, just so you can chuck a tantrum.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206162 Jan 21, 2014
wilderide wrote:
Exactly. Angry and bitter? Delve into the Old Testament and quote Paul. Sweet and loving? Ignore all that and focus on Jesus specifically. You truly can make the Bible say anything you like, at all. To take another example, look at Joel Osteen and the latest trend of "gospel of prosperity". They peddle a message that wealth is the result of God's favor on a person, which DIRECTLY contradicts what Jesus said about camels passing through the eyes of needles.

When you directly contradict what the supposed savior you are worshiping is supposed to have said, and said clearly, then how can you be called a Christian anymore?
Good point.

But on the other hand, who's going to stop you or effectively contradict you whatever your personal version of the bible short of you using it to picket military funerals? Prosperity Christianity has always done well in America. The Vatican treasure is huge and well known, but it hasn't turned the Catholic faithful off. They seem to accept it as their god's will notwithstanding what the bible says.

That would be yet another example illustrating how church doctrine is not determined or even limited by what the bible says. It's the other way around. The church determines how the bible will be understood. The camel / eye of a needle thing simply doesn't apply, and there is nobody to ask the pope why.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206163 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
Ian's this place is eating posts of mine. Gonna wait to see if they show up. Don't know if the last posts are disappearing for anyone else. This has happened to Topix before
You may need to compose them on a Word doc and keep them there until they appear on the thread. That's what I had to do when my computer was crashing twice a day, often mid-post.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206164 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
In the future when that happens, transfer your post to a new reply box with a new 4-digit code and than re-send it. You'll get both copies of the post. If you reuse the same box as you likely did, you must reuse the same code, and the Topix software will delete the second effort automatically.
<quoted text>
OK. Although I disagree with you about there being several sources - I believe that the ones I mentioned are all directly or indirect informed by the church - you should try to make that case if it you are correct, just as I argue the opposite. In this way, the best ideas should ultimately prevail.
Yeah I used the same box. That is what screwed it up

I thought even you said in your post it would be a combination of sources. I may be wrong though as it was pretty late that I was replying. Although I would still make the same claim

I don't know how much I can offer as proof but I can relay my own personal experience. And that was my negative opinion of homosexuals came from the playground, sports teams, classmates, movies, music, etc. Literally my church doesn't even talk about it as our homilies are based on the readings which are from the gospels.

I grew up with a very negative view toward homosexuality. And it also wasn't just how I was socialized. I personally found it very disturbing and the mere idea of the act between men was distasteful to me to say the least.

And like I shared earlier, as I got older I started to be more aware of the hatred they dealt with and that part of my personality that was concerned with social justice and human decency started to overtake any negative feelings. Sure I thought it was messed up but damn, they were still human beings just like anybody else and they didn't need people's permission to be themselves and sure as heck didn't deserve to be bullied or discriminated against. So I just filed the sex act away as "none of my business" and started focusing more on the person themselves and how they were being treated

But that is why I feel numerous things, including just perhaps done personal immaturity and unfamiliarity, played a role in shaking my opinions. I may have never been hateful to someone that was gay but I certainly had some pretty unkind opinions towards homosexuality. And that was pretty much on me and other people my age trying to be what I thought a 'man' should be like and think while still a boy. And the negativity was reinforced in movies and rap songs. Being gay was an insult to call a guy

I am somewhat ashamed looking back that I helped spread the hate as a kid. I hope I never said anything around someone that actually was gay. And I like to think I grew up and grew past the ideas I once had. Some things will always make me uncomfortable. But that's my problem. I try to make sure they don't prevent me from doing the right thing. But I can honestly say for me the church played no role. And even if everybody else thought what they did as done trickle down effect from some church origin (which I don't think is the case) my original personal opinion in it would have been the same regardless. The biggest affect on what shaped my views was my own perception and feelings about a dude engaging in certain things with another guy

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206165 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You may need to compose them on a Word doc and keep them there until they appear on the thread. That's what I had to do when my computer was crashing twice a day, often mid-post.
Yeah I used to copy then even on my phone. Although my phone used to let me go back and all my old posts would still be there. Now it just says "forum error"

It's annoying. At least this time they showed up later

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206166 Jan 21, 2014
wilderide wrote:
Don't feel too sorry for us Dave; after all, we have reality on our side. If you want to marinade in magical thinking, that's entirely up to you. But it does make your universe alot smaller. And of course, imaginary.
Dave's happy in his lunar reveries. He's like a (permanently) hibernating man typing in his sleep. Dave has no use for reality any more.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#206167 Jan 21, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
<quoted text>
The proof is everywhere, AIDS is more rampant in countries with high christian influence. It's not up to me to try to make you understand words and statistics, just so you can chuck a tantrum.
So no proof

Got it

Apparently it's not up to you to make claims and then back them up either

You are imagining a tantrum

For you to be capable of getting me angry, you would first have to be someone I take seriously. I should be safe. Especially if you keep posting how you have been

:)

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206168 Jan 21, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
"Yet while decades of research support the dramatic impact of comprehensive safer sex and condom distribution programs, recipients of these abstinence grants are disallowed from promoting condom use, distributing condoms, or educating about their proper usage. In effect, this program is morality masquerading as public policy, and the public health effects could be devastating."

.. isn't saving a life more important than teaching morals ??..
I would have said "than teaching faith based morals contradicting the morals of rational ethics" which are not morals at all by my standards. If you know for a fact that preaching abstinence-only will increase the number of cases of AIDS, and that the only justification for it is faith based, then reason combined with compassion tell us that it is not moral to be advocating abstinence-only.

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#206169 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>So no proof

Got it

Apparently it's not up to you to make claims and then back them up either

You are imagining a tantrum

For you to be capable of getting me angry, you would first have to be someone I take seriously. I should be safe. Especially if you keep posting how you have been

:)
http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/zippy%20...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206170 Jan 21, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus promised prosperity.
Mark 11:22
{24} Therefore I say unto you, What things so ever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
John 14:13
And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
3 John 1:2
Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
Do you think that if you held precisely the opposite opinion, that it would be difficult to support using the same book? I said earlier that the bible is something of a verbal Rorschach test. Each psyche gets to choose the set of scriptures it prefers to emphasize and those it prefers to call allegory, mistranslated, or old law.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206171 Jan 21, 2014
River Tam wrote:
Of course there is but I no longer have the patience to explain to you the difference between a violent, criminal act and an affectionate, loving act. It's becoming boringly repetitive. Now, I'm off to teach my dining room chair to walk. I think I have a better chance at that.
Welcome to "This Week In Boulder Rolling" with your host, Riverside Redneck. Our contestant River Tam, now on her eleventh post trying to explain a simple concept, has abandoned the effort with exhaustion.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206172 Jan 21, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/01/21/oregon...
Tromping on religious expression by local authorities in a selective fashion.
How is that tromping on religious expression? It's tromping on bigotry. If they happen to be the same thing, you may have to pay a price to express yourself. You probably consider that unfair.If you do, you are saying that your ability to express your religious prejudices on the job should take precedence over all other societal values. That's one opinion, but not the only one, and not mine,

Society has the right to put limits on religious bigotry just like it does on religious certain sexual and marital practices, religious withholding of medical care for children, and religious animal sacrifices. Not all forms of religious expression are permitted.

We see so little evidence that the church respects the values of non-Christians, yet it appeals to have its values respected. If you need to appeal to popular opinion, you should probably comport yourselves accordingly. It's absurd to take an in-your-face attitude to secular society and then appeal to it to allow you continue against its own interests and values..
Dave Nelson wrote:
Going into gay owned businesses and demanding products that are the antithesis of what they believe in should be a good lesson for them.
Don't forget your credit card.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206173 Jan 21, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
I can't prove it doesn't include penguins. But I think there's a stronger case for it including prosperity.
I smell a book opportunity: Of Penguins and Prosperity: The Central Question of Financial Origins

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206174 Jan 22, 2014
wilderide wrote:
So then what did Jesus mean when he said it was easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
He meant worldly riches mean nothing. All that matters is faith.
And there it is - translation to suit the translator.

The words are obviously a warning to those interested in getting into heaven. If worldly riches make it impossible to get into heaven, they're not merely worthless. They're dangerous.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206175 Jan 22, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
The lesson being trust in God in spite of Earthly circumstances which appear unjust.
Who benefits from you taking that advice?
lightbeamrider wrote:
Humans find themselves in horrible earthly circumstances beyond their control every day and they either trust God in spite of these circumstances or they blame God or they are indifferent to God. That is why the writer of Proverbs wrote to trust in the Lord with all your heart and not lean on your own understanding. Eventually things work out, even if it is not in this life.
That's the slave ethics I referred to earlier that exhort the faithful to be meek, to be glad of poverty, and to not only turn the other cheek to those injuring them, but to love them - to expect nothing in this life but hardship and injustice, and be glad of it, for these are tests of their faith as with Job, and their reward will come later.

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." - Napoleon Bonaparte

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206176 Jan 22, 2014
Eagle 12 wrote:
My good Doctor I will agree thereís a swing to the left in America.
Who are you agreeing with?
Eagle 12 wrote:
Don Imus found himself in a bad situation by making comments about the Rutgers University women's basketball team. Donís an Atheist I believe. And the left skinned him and hung him out to dry.
Who did that?
Eagle 12 wrote:
People make mistakes, all of us have said something later we regretted. But I donít believe Don Imus or Paula Dean are members of the Arian Nation.
I agree.
Eagle 12 wrote:
How about the Duke lacrosse case? In 2006 three white members of the men's lacrosse team at Duke University was found guilty in the public opinion of racism and criminal conduct. They were found innocent and it was the prosecutor who was guilty of criminal conduct.
OK.
Eagle 12 wrote:
There was a sizeable push back on the Phil Robertsonís critics. I think Christian Conservatives will be around for a long time. Maybe not in the numbers we were in the 50ís. Never the less we will be a force to contend with long into the future.
Maybe. I think Christian values will eventually be confined to Christian homes just like Muslim and Hindu values. Would you be OK with that?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206177 Jan 22, 2014
wilderide wrote:
An epistemology is a study of the nature knowledge. So in other words, faith is not a reliable way of determining knowledge or truth. For example, using faith, how would one determine which religion is "true"? They obviously can't all be true, because they all contradict each other in various ways, and thus at least some of them are false. Using faith, how to we determine which are true or false?
For Riverside Redneck:

Experience and experiment (empiricism) can be a path to knowledge. If every time I heat ice to 32įF it melts, I know something. Conflicting ideas cannot be supported by evidence.

Pure reason (rationalism) can be a path to knowledge. It tells us that 7+4=11, and unless we redefine what those symbols mean, no opposite opinion can be supported by reason.

But faith (fideism) can't possibly be a path to truth or knowledge since any position and its opposite can be held by faith.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206178 Jan 22, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
Go your own way and see where you end up but don't say you were not warned.
That's exactly what Muslims say. What will you tell Allah?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#206179 Jan 22, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
Should they also hand out ski masks if people want to commit armed robbery because its in their best interest not to be identified?
Think of them as head condoms.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#206180 Jan 22, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Who benefits from you taking that advice?

That's the slave ethics I referred to earlier that exhort the faithful to be meek, to be glad of poverty, and to not only turn the other cheek to those injuring them, but to love them - to expect nothing in this life but hardship and injustice, and be glad of it, for these are tests of their faith as with Job, and their reward will come later.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." - Napoleon Bonaparte
Job not necessarily poor and i do like the Bonaparte quote and Christianity's early appeal was mostly to the slave class. Why would you assume i am handing out advice? Offering a synopsis of Job is not the same as handing out advice. Hardship and injustice is a fact of life for many people worldwide and has little to do with expectations or personal control. So i don't know what point, if any you are trying to make. Your Bonaparte quote brings up an Ayn Rand quote.

Private property is superstition. One holds property only by the courtesy of those who do not seize it.

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