Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205783 Jan 21, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you obtain this knowledge?
I ask because you are the first human being to possess it.
You believe that Zeus, Odin, Jupiter, Brahma, Osiris, RA, El, Satan, Marduk etc. are all real ?

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#205784 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
http://www.topix.com/forum/rel igion/atheism/TUGI0DVLLAKD7M2H N/post205269
<quoted text>
The Christian majority is dwindling. Extrapolation of the trends of the last quarter century takes us to about 2029 for non-Christians attaining majority status in America.
Hopefully it's obvious by now I'd applaud that, but I do have to wonder about that date. Without looking, where are we at now, about 11-20%, depending on how you slice it? Human nature is all about the pendulum swing, and I expect more radical swings as the inevitable closes down. We're only one catastrophic event away from a 10% back-swing at any given time. Not saying it ain't going to happen (if the nation endures as is) but 2029 seems really optimistic. Could you direct me to further exploration on that topic?

Musing: If and when it does happen, I would expect a cataclysmic backlash by the Christian minority, up to and including armed insurgency. 1st Amendment +(2nd Amendment x 10th Amendment)= dissolution of the Great Experiment. The seeds of the nation's demise may be enshrined in our founding documents.

Among our possible futures - a Rocky Mountain State extending from Idaho to Arizona, splitting the former nation in two. Might be interesting to see how the concepts of christian unity and tolerance manifest with Mormons and Protestants vying for political ascendancy. With all them warhedas, might make the Shi'ite/Sunni rift seem like a rockfight.

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#205785 Jan 21, 2014
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
And I would add to understand the religion of the people who wrote those books and what purpose they were written for.
For example, The OT are Jewish texts and to set aside the several thousand years of agreement on the nature of their texts because it doesn't fit with one's chosen doctrine is disingenuous at best.
For example, In Judaism, the Book of Job has been and still is accepted as a completely fictional allegory of mans relationship with and understanding of God. It is a cautionary tale AGAINST anyone claiming to "know" God's mind.

Hint: the moral of Job is: "We don't understand God at all".
Maybe, but a corollary is, "It's good to be good, but not too good." Being all righteous was downright fatal to Job's family and livelihood.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205786 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I think there is something to that as the treatment of strangers and lack of charity is one of reasons Sodom fell. In fact, Jesus touches on this as well
Matthew 10
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
But here is something often passed over when people try to use Sodom and the Bible to claim New Orleans or other natural disasters are because God is angry at gays or gay marriage. Look at what God said before he took action against Sodom
Genesis 18
26 So the Lord said,“If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.”
The verses work themselves all the way down to ten because the question was why destroy the righteous in the city the punish the sinners. It ends saying:
Genesis 18:32-33
"Then he said,“Let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak but once more: Suppose ten should be found there?” And He said,“I. And He said,“I will not destroy it for the sake of ten.” 33 So the Lord went His way as soon as He had finished speaking with Abraham; and Abraham returned to his place."
So God does would not cause natural disasters to punish sinners if there were any righteous among them. All of Sodom had lost its way. But unless someone is claiming all the Christians killed in the natural disasters were also killed by God then they have no basis to claim God caused it. Certainly not based on S&G
This is why it makes me uncomfortable to say the least when people try to speak for God in general let alone to make claims he is killing people based on one particular sin.
On a side note, have some things i would like to talk to you about personally. When I get a chance I will touch base as I don't plan on being up much longer.
In the Rabbinical Method, one is free to interpret Scripture on a variety of ways to find the deeper meaning of the text. That does not say the interpretation is correct nor "The Word of God".

In the S&G story, only Lot is found to be righteous. Lot demonstrates this by taking in strangers and protecting them; even offering his children in "sacrifice" to the mob outside his door.(An interesting parallel, eh?).
Yet, this righteous man succumbs to drunkenness and incest. Proving that either "no man is righteous" OR "even the righteous are subject to being human".
In Rabbinical Judaism, both views are equally valid and both "true".

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205787 Jan 21, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/busines s/money/la-fi-mo-oxfam-world-e conomic-forum-income-inequalit y-20140120,0,7080817.story#axz z2qxEXoTZW
This is not a result of religions. These people own you on this Earth. It is not in their interests for you to believe there is a higher power than them.
You couldn't be more wrong. Organized religion serves entrenched power.
http://snipurl.com/rg7o0

These guys ought to know

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”- Seneca the Younger

"How can you have order in a state without religion? For, when one man is dying of hunger near another who is ill of surfeit, he cannot resign himself to this difference unless there is an authority which declares 'God wills it thus.' Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet. Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich." - Napoleon Bonaparte

Napoleon is just echoing the fears of those that exhort the faithful to be meek, to be glad of poverty, and to not only turn the other cheek to those injuring them, but to love them. They are to expect nothing in this life but hardship and injustice, and be glad of it, for these are tests of their faith as with Job, and their reward will come later.

The people that promote those values, which include the überwealthy, don't live by them. As Seneca and Napoleon note, they consider organized religion very useful to convince others to do so.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205788 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I agree
Personally I find it somewhat contradictory and somewhat hubris for anyone to be making societal condemnations while ignoring their own sins
What is the very first thing one must accept for why they need a savior? It is that all men have fallen short of the glory of God and sinned. So how does someone say "I needed to be saved because I am a sinner" and then once they accept Christ turn around and start pointing the finger at everybody else? The two schools of thought are in conflict. If anybody was righteous enough to judge everybody but themselves, they wouldn't need to be saved themselves.
And I think it is simply pride for anyone to claim their sins are "better". And even if they don't come right out and say it, that is pretty much the implication. Because nobody says, oh a natural disaster hit my city in part because of my sins. Of course it must be the sins of others. The people committing the "worse" sins
And if someone believes all their future sins are forgiven and that is why their sins don't count, well then they would be righteous in the eyes of God and He would never kill the righteous to punish sinners
There are a dozen different ways to look at it but I think Matthew summed it up best in two areas. First when it talks about judging hypocritically. And secondly when we are told not to worry about who God punishes, that our job is to love our enemy. Only God can speak for God. Only God knows who or if he passes judgment on anyone before the return of Christ. Instead of anyone claiming to know God is going after others for their sins, which we simply can't know and are told don't worry about it, they would be much better off making sure they are on the narrow path. And that goes for me as well obviously. Until anyone no longer needs a savior because they stopped sinning, their own sins are plenty for them to focus on
I see it much AA. I can not look down on a heroin addict thinking alcoholism made me better than them. I say, " I understand you and have been where you are. I can show you how I find a better way if you are interested in changing your life."
If they aren't interested I say, "OK. If you change your mind you know where to find me."
I don't despise people in the valley simply because I was given the opportunity to climb the mountain.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205789 Jan 21, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. is it possible for the pubic area to sunburn? Wouldn't the hair prevent that ??.. AIN: What's the answer?
http://stevestenzel.com/photos4/ff_warm_penis...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205791 Jan 21, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
Introduced in part in response to gays harassing private businesses for refusing services. There is your backlash. Gay activists targeting businesses brought this on themselves.
Then I trust you are good with any backlash against the church. Christian activists targeting gays bring it on themselves, right?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205792 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I agree
Personally I find it somewhat contradictory and somewhat hubris for anyone to be making societal condemnations while ignoring their own sins
What is the very first thing one must accept for why they need a savior? It is that all men have fallen short of the glory of God and sinned. So how does someone say "I needed to be saved because I am a sinner" and then once they accept Christ turn around and start pointing the finger at everybody else? The two schools of thought are in conflict. If anybody was righteous enough to judge everybody but themselves, they wouldn't need to be saved themselves.
And I think it is simply pride for anyone to claim their sins are "better". And even if they don't come right out and say it, that is pretty much the implication. Because nobody says, oh a natural disaster hit my city in part because of my sins. Of course it must be the sins of others. The people committing the "worse" sins
And if someone believes all their future sins are forgiven and that is why their sins don't count, well then they would be righteous in the eyes of God and He would never kill the righteous to punish sinners
There are a dozen different ways to look at it but I think Matthew summed it up best in two areas. First when it talks about judging hypocritically. And secondly when we are told not to worry about who God punishes, that our job is to love our enemy. Only God can speak for God. Only God knows who or if he passes judgment on anyone before the return of Christ. Instead of anyone claiming to know God is going after others for their sins, which we simply can't know and are told don't worry about it, they would be much better off making sure they are on the narrow path. And that goes for me as well obviously. Until anyone no longer needs a savior because they stopped sinning, their own sins are plenty for them to focus on
I am reminded that my earthly father forgave me everything I did or could do. I still tried to be the best person I could be. I failed often. He corrected me and gave me guidance and never stopped loving me, nor I him.
I hold my "Heavenly Father" in the same esteem.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205793 Jan 21, 2014
Chris Clearwater wrote:
Like most libs I've met you say nothing here concerning the bigotry of people of faith.
You've skipped over a lot of posts. We comment on that a lot.

Or maybe you meant bigotry TOWARD people of faith. We comment on that a lot as well. I could provide you with some samples from my files if you'd like. You can find one from me to lightbeamrider on this page a few posts up

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205794 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Ever been with a broad with a hairy snatch? Good grief, it's like kissing a hairy tuna fish.(mental image, that one)
Oh no you di'int! Oh no you di'int! LOL.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205795 Jan 21, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe, but a corollary is, "It's good to be good, but not too good." Being all righteous was downright fatal to Job's family and livelihood.
The proud are often humbled.

Job suffered the sin of pride. That neither made him 'unrighteous' nor the reason for God inflicting him and his family with disaster.

Job, like all men, is a pawn in a great cosmic game that 'God' plays against himself.

We humans may be 'Gods' but we will a die and be eventually forgotten.(based on Psalm 82)

In Job, "God" seems to be saying that there Universe is far more important than mankind and that mankind needs to be knocked of its self made pedestal.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#205796 Jan 21, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism is not a lack of belief.
Nobody on this thread lacks belief. To propose it as a default position is just more atheist dishonesty.
pissoffpatheticloser

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205797 Jan 21, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
So you agree with Buck that "There is no God" is an exact quote from the Bible?

[QUOTE who="RiversideRedneck "]That's an exact, PARTIAL, quote from the Bible.
Psalm 14:1 The fool says in his heart,“There is no God.”
All quotes from the bible are partial. Here's a larger part, which reveals the hateful generalization concealed by your sample of it:

"The fool has said in his heart,“There is no God.” They are corrupt, they have committed abominable deeds; There is no one who does good."

We're abominable. Every one of us.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#205798 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I could have used one of these when I went out running in Patagonia.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#205799 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I don't see how it didn't
It made a direct link to the presence of Christian missions and the spread of Aids
I would have to go back further i guess to see if somehow that evolved from something else
But if the implication wasn't that Christians are teaching people not to use contraception was a direct reason for the increase in the spread of Aids then what was it saying?
That is exactly what it was implying except nobody says "I am going to have a one-night stand with this whore but I am not going to wear a condom because its against my religion"
If someone was following their religion they wouldn't be doing any of it. In fact, hang on, gonna copy the part of post I replied to:
HL wrote:
"today, because of Evangelistic prothletising, AIDS has become a major killer in some African countries .."
What else could that be implying?
I believe I mentioned several things that was implying...none of them the promotion of promiscuity you claimed. You seem to be wearing religious blinders.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#205800 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh no you di'int! Oh no you di'int! LOL.
Actually it says a lot about the type of women he frequents

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205801 Jan 21, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
But mostly no as long as they keep their gayness out of the workplace.
How about keeping straightness out of the workplace, like no wedding rings or pictures of opposite gendered spouses?
Dave Nelson wrote:
Meaning no provocations and disrupting it with arguments.
Arguments take two or more.

What's provocative? Is a bible provocative to a gay or atheist person? Could be. You'll want to ban those from the workplace, as well as symbols of Christianity, like crosses around the neck.

Since: Jul 09

Location hidden

#205802 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I know you are but what am I?
:)
dishonest

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205803 Jan 21, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
Women now are told you wash your hands to protect against things in your mouth, which is similar tissue to a vagina, but not at least rinse inside the vagina.
Some women flap their mouths so much some sunlight will get in to kill germs, That don't happen the other place.
Happy Lesbo wrote:
.. you really hate women, don't you ??..
LOL. What a show this has been.

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