Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 244664 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#205861 Jan 21, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
And all of the founding principles are not expressed in the Constitution.
W..T..F...???

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#205862 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
He and I traveled down that road in 2012. We seem to have found a way to do better now. I have seen Buck trying to do better with other posters, but then becoming angry and returning to vituperation. I am hoping that our experiment will give him cause to keep working in that direction in all of his Topix relationships. I come from the same place, as many who have posted with me for these last few years know.
Old habits die hard. They are extinguished by choosing to not indulge them.
Hold on, boys.

DS intentionally lied about what I said in certain posts, just in order to push my buttons. It worked.

And on flimsy evidence, made Barton out to be a borderline criminal.

I first killed him on the substance, then called him some of the worse names I could think of. I also went back and copied and pasted my exact posts to prove he was lying about them.

He deserves whatever abuse he gets here. I hope I can capably supply it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205863 Jan 21, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
It's not nearly as undesirable as the consequences of repealing the right of the people to govern themselves - which is what the court did.
Do you think that the Supreme Court acted outside of the law?

Incidentally, what makes you think that the people are still governing themselves? Let me reword that: if the people ever ceased governing themselves, how would you know? Would there definitely be a herald of some sort that there had been a change, or could it happen without being public knowledge?

What would be the telltale signs that you would look for to prove to yourself that no such thing had happened? What things are true where self-government thrives that are not true where it does not?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#205864 Jan 21, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Think you got the moral wrong.You state God acts in a shameful way. This assumes God owes us something. What exactly do you think god owes? In creation every act contrary to the character of God is separation which brings death. Death delayed is grace. Not that you are privy to any alternate explanation since your conclusion appears to be God is unjust. The overall theme of Job has to do with clinging to God in spite of earthly circumstances and bad theological advice from either the wife or Job's comforters. All things work out for the good....and all that. We do not always see it. God is unjust with no one.
…because he isn't real.

“Pillars of Creation....”

Since: Jan 11

Into this world we're thrown

#205865 Jan 21, 2014
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. so, Adam was a pedophile ??..
No, Adam wanted a companion not a child..........

“The future begins”

Since: Jul 07

every moment

#205866 Jan 21, 2014
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Think you got the moral wrong.You state God acts in a shameful way. This assumes God owes us something. What exactly do you think god owes? In creation every act contrary to the character of God is separation which brings death. Death delayed is grace. Not that you are privy to any alternate explanation since your conclusion appears to be God is unjust. The overall theme of Job has to do with clinging to God in spite of earthly circumstances and bad theological advice from either the wife or Job's comforters. All things work out for the good....and all that. We do not always see it. God is unjust with no one.
In God's own words, Job was righteous, which means "right with God", so obviously he was not "contrary to the character of God".

Yet God allowed these horrors to happen to Job for no reason but to win a bet. He willingly encourages a supernatural creature to accost and assail an inoffensive mortal with no recourse to defend himself, and no apprehension as to why it's happening. He "clung to God" throughout his troubles, yet the calamities continued unabated until the cosmic wager was settled.

That paints God as vainglorious, capricious, and unfeeling. Thus man, when he acts the same, is in fact acting "in God's image".

Biblically speaking.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#205867 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You and I reject the ethics of those methods - the tendentiousness that Throckmorton referred to - and don't trust those that embrace them.
Many of us have expressed confusion about why Buck would stand beside a guy like Barton, but he does, and with passion. Maybe he disagrees that those are Barton's methods. We have criticized the ID movement on the same grounds - it's selective handling of data in an effort to make them conform to a faith based conclusion. I think that he would deny that that happens.
If he will not see it our way, and we will not see it his way, then all that can be done is to agree to disagree, and for each to continue making arguments to clarify our own thoughts better, to refine our arguments, and for the benefit of those who can find something of value in them that they hadn't considered before.
"Tendentiousness"? As described by Throckmorton?

Did you read Throckmorton's critique? It's silly.

Some of the better critics of Barton's work have some good points. TM's is a crock.

More is at play between the two than historical accuracy.



Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#205868 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think that the Supreme Court acted outside of the law?
Incidentally, what makes you think that the people are still governing themselves? Let me reword that: if the people ever ceased governing themselves, how would you know? Would there definitely be a herald of some sort that there had been a change, or could it happen without being public knowledge?
What would be the telltale signs that you would look for to prove to yourself that no such thing had happened? What things are true where self-government thrives that are not true where it does not?
Diversity of thought and direction of ideas to implement.

When you look to the government to tell you how to think you lost it. Watching and listening to Big Brother. Government becomes the Establishment, the Authority. The dictator of ideas. All because you think men have the answers. Government becomes your brain. Especially when you are told there is nothing greater in the universe or existence. You assume they are the best brain cells in the body human.

Self government is a lot more chaotic.

A few decades ago government and special interests seized the microphone and you have been dancing to their tune since. The internet has provided more microphones that those powers are trying to control via the remnants of that original mass media. They will, with your help. Your whole perspective of existence is being part of that body human. Your intellectual prowess is limited to rationalizing what they tell you are "the truths" of your existence, and a faith they are right.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#205869 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I know the deterrents we have don't work. I'm saying we try for harsher deterrents.
I mean really, really harsh.
Drawing and quartering for Jesus.

Gouging out of eyes.

Burning at the stake.

How very Christian.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205870 Jan 21, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>In God's own words, Job was righteous, which means "right with God", so obviously he was not "contrary to the character of God".
Yet God allowed these horrors to happen to Job for no reason but to win a bet. He willingly encourages a supernatural creature to accost and assail an inoffensive mortal with no recourse to defend himself, and no apprehension as to why it's happening. He "clung to God" throughout his troubles, yet the calamities continued unabated until the cosmic wager was settled.
That paints God as vainglorious, capricious, and unfeeling. Thus man, when he acts the same, is in fact acting "in God's image".
Biblically speaking.
Yes, if you want to cast God as a deity.

As an allegory, the Book of Job simply says, " The Universe isn't fair. Deal with it ! ".

Note also that the restoration of Job's family and wealth is a much later addition to the story. In the original form Job is left to die.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#205871 Jan 21, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
I personally want to know if it is indeed something they were taught or if they simply decided individually to say it is biblical. My personal feeling is a lot of this is not actually being [taught] out in the individual churches. I think you probably feel it is. But if we can establish it isn't in the Bible, then at least it creates a need for finding out which it is.
I don't know all of the places it is taught, but it certainly isn't limited to the churches. I just watched the Ann Coulter video somebody linked to. It promulgates homophobia. Then there were the various news items that got attention - Duckman, Canada man and bakery woman. These also reinforce that message. They did with several of the Christians posting here. It's in the air. These stories serve as models for many people - many posting in this thread. They energize them and cause them to intensify their feelings and redouble their resolve,

My belief is that the church is source of most or all of it, where by church I mean an abstraction that includes a large variety of ideas, people and media, and not necessarily brick and mortar buildings with pulpits.. All of these Christians expressing these ideas outside of churches are also part of that.

Coulter mentioned Rick Santorum. He is part of it. So are Pat Robertson and George Bush. So are the Topix theists - people like lightbeamrider, Clearwater. They teach and reinforce one another, They teach their children.

Then somebody like Riverside Redneck will say that the church doesn't promulgate homophobia because he doesn't remember an overtly hateful pastor in a pulpit saying to hate gays.

I appreciate your interest in this. You seem to really want to know in an effort to correct errors and do the right thing. That is admirable.

But you are up against a juggernaut. All that you can do is perhaps help a few people. You can't redirect the church. Neither can we. We just have to wait for it to lose steam and coast to a stop. We may throw a few lassos around it to help a little, but we wouldn't have been able to do even that had the church not lost so much prestige and social cachet on its own. That just weakened the church enough for atheists to start being taken seriously a little rather that to be uniformly viewed as morally bereft and despicable..

And as time passes, as the church weakens further, and as our numbers grow, our opinions will become not only socially acceptable, but the majority opinion. But even then, it will only be because the church self-destructed in plain view first. I think that the Catholic pedophile scandals and the Protestant televangelist scandals of the last few decades were the stories that harmed the church the most.

And although none of those things was new, it seems that the reason these things were so damaging now is modern telecommunications, which shone a light on it all.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205872 Jan 21, 2014
Rider on the Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
No, Adam wanted a companion not a child..........
Correct. After god tried mating Adam with all the animals God finally created a woman.

Yes, that is in the Bible. You should read it sometime.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#205873 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
They are also saying "Don't be promiscuous" and the Africans aren't listening.
Don't blame the missionaries, blame the Africans.
I'm surprised you didn't say, "blame the monkeys."

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#205874 Jan 21, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the Africans aren't listening.
The best way to avoid HIV is to be abstinent.
The 2nd best choice, since abstinence is obviously very difficult, is to be smarter about who you choose to have sex with and not to be so wild and carefree about sex.
.. do you view HIV as a moral or health issue ??..

.. for faithful African women, marriage is a major risk factor and Bush's AIDS prevention mantra of abstinence only, subsidized by taxpayer dollars, is failing them ..

: how can you compare lives saved by condoms against lives lost through policies based on religious morals that sabotage known prevention measures ??..

.. I'm sorry RR, I find your comments disingenuous. The current HIV prevention program in Africa, underscored by anti-gay views, has become a patronage system for the religious right and the emphasis on abstinence has resulted in unnecessary deaths ..

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#205875 Jan 21, 2014
"And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make a mate for him and out of the ground the Lord God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam."

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#205876 Jan 21, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you care what I believe?
This I know. When someone says there is no god, it is a belief, not knowledge.
Read Hume: Everything is a belief, not knowledge.

If you play billiards, and strike a ball toward another, do you know what will happen?

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#205877 Jan 21, 2014
HipGnosis wrote:
<quoted text>In God's own words, Job was righteous, which means "right with God", so obviously he was not "contrary to the character of God".
Yet God allowed these horrors to happen to Job for no reason but to win a bet. He willingly encourages a supernatural creature to accost and assail an inoffensive mortal with no recourse to defend himself, and no apprehension as to why it's happening. He "clung to God" throughout his troubles, yet the calamities continued unabated until the cosmic wager was settled.
That paints God as vainglorious, capricious, and unfeeling. Thus man, when he acts the same, is in fact acting "in God's image".
Biblically speaking.
From your very limited perspective you come up with those conclusions. The basis of your whining.

It can also be looked at as a quality control operation. The smoke testing I referred to earlier.

You don't let things loose in the house that don't know how to behave on their own.

Even chihuahuas were developed through trial and error and selective improvements. but their adaptability was based upon knowing who supplied the food.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#205878 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think that the Supreme Court acted outside of the law?
Incidentally, what makes you think that the people are still governing themselves? Let me reword that: if the people ever ceased governing themselves, how would you know? Would there definitely be a herald of some sort that there had been a change, or could it happen without being public knowledge?
What would be the telltale signs that you would look for to prove to yourself that no such thing had happened? What things are true where self-government thrives that are not true where it does not?
Yes, the Supreme Court acted outside the law - multiple times.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#205879 Jan 21, 2014
Poor Topix atheists.

The absolute knowledge they are just glorified products of the universal digestive system, the knowledge they are magical minds arising from that pile, the wondrous ability of those magical minds to create and control other piles of that digestive stuff, such as growing crops and managing animals, creating devices they can even launch into space. That is heady stuff. The power, the glory!

Totally preposterous that they could be someone's chihuahua to them. It just can't be!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#205880 Jan 21, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice.
Dang, some sites give for the option of highlighting and/or underlining the specific part of the post someone is replying to. I understand why you had to do it like that. Bit you are gonna get md trouble! LOL

Just kidding. Even by themselves I stand by those comments. I wouldn't want another religion should somehow it become the majority dictating to me as far as my rights. Fair is fair. Even without secular rights attached there would be a strong societal argument for equality. With secular rights attached, to not do so is an injustice.

Nobody else needs approval but what they can demand is the right to make important medical decisions, to citizenship, to spousal privilege, to tax breaks, to medical coverage, to etc, etc. To claim those rights are only available to straight people is wrong. People should have left marriage in the church if they wanted to control when it can be used

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

NCAA Basketball Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 3 min DBWriter 1,261,633
News Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex ma... (Aug '10) 15 min RiccardoFire 201,851
News Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision (Jan '08) 4 hr Truth is might 310,305
News UCLA FOOTBALL NOTEBOOK: Neuheisel says Prince w... (Sep '10) Sat Stewart scott 29,844
News San Diego State basketball: Four-star prospect ... Jul 25 Fart news 2
The Email Address Debacle: Did Hillary Do Somet... Jul 25 xxxrayted 1,714
News 3 Arkansas players arrested on forgery complaint Jul 23 Fart news 2
More from around the web