Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201692 Jan 11, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
I employed an alternate definition of the word worship, just as I do with faith.
You worship your wife. I know you do. That in no way means you think she's your eternal salvation. You also have faith in your wife. That doesn't mean you blindly trusts that she exists......
You are probably correct about how I feel, but we disagree about how words should best be used to describe things. I'm a big fan of giving two different ideas two different names whenever possible. Using the same word for both obscures differences.

I've seen this illustrated repeatedly while learning Spanish, which often assigns two words where English uses one. It's forced me to concentrate on differences in meanings that had been masked by the use of one word for two meanings. A good example is the word "ask," which can be either preguntar or pedir in Spanish. The first is the word you use to ask a question. The second would be the word you use to ask a favor

I asked her what time it is - Le pregunté qué hora es.
I asked her for help - Le pedí ayuda.

These are completely different ideas. One inquires, the other requests. One gets a question mark, the other doesn't. I had never noticed that these two words were one in my language before, and that I effortlessly toggled from one to the other unaware that I did.

I love, respect and trust my wife, but I don't worship her in the literal sense, and I don't have faith in her in the religious sense. So why use those words? I think that people who do literally worship and have faith in a god would like to see the rest of us get cozy with the words, which they might think makes it easier to get cozier with their literal application. Likewise with humanism or evolution a religion.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201693 Jan 11, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
<quoted text>I guess the short version would have been one of the two: 1) Sometimes the way God speaks to us is different or more subtle than what one might expect. For someone new to the faith and hoping to believe, they may have set their sights a little high. For me personally, I find God in the little things much more than I do the bigger things. And I find him the most in others. Little things like him putting an unlikely person in my path at a time I really needed it. I don't chalk up every coincidence to God. It's just hard to explain. When I am living the right way, I just am supremely confident I will be able to handle whatever comes up. And often when I am living the right way, things break better fro me. I don't see ti as a coincidence that my luck is always better when I'm living the right way. And obviously I am talking about things that would have no way of knowing how i was living. Just when you live the right way, good things seem to happen a lot more. And for me, when I'm living that way, I can feel the presence of God not only in myself but am much more attuned to it in others. 2) Maybe you didn't miss a sign. I really don't know. I wish I did

Either way, I believe you put forth the effort
Thanks. I appreciate that.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201694 Jan 11, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
You wish to subjugate everyone underneath your phobias and beliefs, and of the crazies and eccentrics. You wish to let chaos rule. Chaos only destroys. It is a power grab via poisoning society, but you won't see it that way. You see it as a change for the better because it suits YOU, and your future masters of thinking.
You keep posting things like this, as if civilization isn't everywhere and at all times a struggle between competing ideas and ideologies. If your ideas are being pushed aside, then perhaps they should be. If you can't prevail in a peaceful battle of ideas, your idea wasn't good enough to persuade the people that needed persuading..
Dave Nelson wrote:
Why can't you understand that?
We understand. And we also disagree. At least you didn't get this answer:

Drew Carey is a huge fan of the Cleveland Indians, whose logo is a cartoon image of a moronic appearing Indian, about which a variety of Indian interest groups have complained. He likes the logo, and noted that he was in the majority, so his answer to them was (paraphrasing),“if you guys have a problem with it, I guess you should have fought harder.”

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201695 Jan 11, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
An example of what I am describing from the nonbiological world ...an archway. With an arch, remove any one of its stones and the whole thing comes tumbling down. The system is irreducible. Remove one part and whole fails. But was it always that way? No. At the start, it was a wooden frame filling the opening in the arch. This did not function as an arch, but as a support for stones. One by one the stones were added until the keystone is placed on top. After that, the wooden frame is removed. Note that its removal does not cause the arch to fail. What is left is the stone arch which is NOW irreducible. But as noted, it wasn't always irreducible.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Good illustration.
Buck Crick wrote:
Yes, it is a good illustration. But it flatly contradicts the Darwinian model of evolution. I don't think that's what he had in mind.
How does it contradict Darwin?

This appears irreducibly complex. Was it designed?
http://web.mst.edu/~rogersda/phd_research/Lan...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201696 Jan 11, 2014
RiversideRedneck wrote:
Maybe you can enlighten us, open our eyes a little. Please share this elusive evidence of abiogenesis.
Are you really interested? I am aware of plenty of evidence for abiogenesis ranging from the discovery of organic molecules in space[1] to the self-organization of nucleic acids under the influence of a spark [2] to the self-sustained replication of an RNA enzyme [3][4][5]

[1] http://science1.nasa.gov/science-news/science...
[2] http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/05/rib...
[3] http://www.sciencemag.org/content/323/5918/12...
[4] http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/01/...
[5] http://phys.org/news186071435.html

This is preeminent Harvard geneticist Jack Szostak summarizing the state of the art in an hour long YouTube called "The Origin of Cellular Life on Earth" for those interested


Here is a written summary of many of these findings called "The Origins of Cellular Life":
http://www.hhmi.org/research/origins-cellular...

I have nothing else to offer you but material like this. As I have said before, we cannot drag faith based thinkers into our world without their cooperation. If none of this constitutes evidence for you, I suppose that we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Greens - Tuf

Sydney, Australia

#201697 Jan 11, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
When I heard about infinity as a kid, I borrowed my brother's calculator to try and find it.
I kept multiplying numbers, higher and higher. Eventually, all I got was a E for error.
The way I see it is like this.

A Universe full of particles can be counted , but outside of this Universe it is One.
Number's only exist when you have separation.
Time does not exist on the other side , hence , nor do numbers.

Also there are only really 9 numbers.
1 to nine , that's it , that's all you need.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201698 Jan 11, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
How do you account for the fact that so many professional scientists and those involved in funding their research in this area not only disagree that there is zero evidence, but assume that it is very likely to be the case?. Are they all blind, or might you be overstating the case?
Buck Crick wrote:
No, they are not blind. But they are in search of evidence for a conclusion they already hold. They are trying to create data that fits the hypothesis.
They are discovering data, not creating it like an author creates a work of fiction.

And what else can they do except to investigate nature with a hypothesis, which is not a conclusion? Their search is for the means by which life could have assembled itself. If there is a creator god to thank for life, they'll fail, and possibly even discover evidence for that god.
Buck Crick wrote:
That seems backwards.
How about when the ID scientists set out to prove a hypothesis? Does it seem backwards then as well?
Buck Crick wrote:
There is no evidence abiogenesis has ever occurred.
The attempts to prove so have been woeful.
There is evidence, just no proof. It may never be proven, even if a credible pathway from nonlife to life can be determined. That would only demonstrate that it is possible. We have to have reasonable goals, and proof is not one of them. Nor is reproducing the process, which occurred over deep time under different environmental circumstances.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#201699 Jan 11, 2014
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe a quick prayer to Alien Yahweh would fix things.
Yeah, that'll work~/.
I'm not the one running.

You whoosed out, exposed as a farce.

Smile.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#201700 Jan 11, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
I know this will cause your little mind to explode, but I am telling the truth. Infinity is not a number. It does not belong to any of the set of numbers that are defined. Infinity is larger than any number, which implies that infinity itself is not a number.
http://scienceblogs.com/goodmath/2008/10/13/i...
Infinity is just that beyond what you can measure. It's a direction, not a quantity.

If you can measure it you are within its continuum, or its continuum is within yours.

If there is a null point in the continuum you can't see past it. You aren't "connected" to it. You have to make a leap to get into contact with it. You have to separate yourself from where you were.

At present all we can graph is what we can see. That is why the BBT exists, and why the universe seems to be expanding.

There is an issue with determining volume with modern math. When you assign a volume or increment you create a separation between them. You create objects. For the objects to be separate, you need at least one theoretical increment between them. A space. Get three dimensional and that really becomes an issue when you add them to get a total volume from a fixed position within the whole. Like looking out at the universe from here. It will become infinity dealing with adding from here. A higher perspective gives you an overview that you can then make measurements with.

It is folly for the raisin at the bottom of your bowl of raisin bran to ascertain where it is at by measurements unless it can get a glimpse of the bowl first. It can start counting other raisins and flakes, but all it does is push them around to be counted again, which will break them down into smaller pieces. It never really knows where it is at. Unless it gets a position on the spoon where it can peak over where it was in the bowl and the mouth it is headed for. But that usually doesn't last long or do much for its education.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#201701 Jan 11, 2014
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Lovemuffin, if you like playing S&M you would just love doing the real thing. Nothing like fantasies coming true to warm a girl's heart. How was that, Honey?
.. again, I'm not into S & M ..

.. in the future, I will not respond to any of YOUR posts directed to me if they include terms of endearment ..

.. I hope you are feeling better today and have an adequate supply of cigarettes at home so you don't have to venture outside in cold weather ..

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#201702 Jan 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I made no such claim.
You know that.
You are so obviously trying to divert, it is childish.
You would be smart to just go back in your closet for a while.
Smile.
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that what The Alien Yahweh told you to say to me?
It is obvious to any intelligent human, between my response and yours, who is the adult.

You clearly make you side look bad and embarrassed.

Smile.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201703 Jan 11, 2014
Bongo wrote:
wow dagwood tested God 2 whole years and you a few years.
How long does a god need?

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#201704 Jan 11, 2014
Okay, let me try with any adult atheists. Any out there with a reasoned response???

Exodus 33:18-23 (NASB)
18 Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory!"
19 And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."
20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
21 Then the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 "Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."

Note;
-Seeing God was a life-threatening danger.
-God used three forms of protection for the radiation;
Behind a rock
Shielded with His hand
Only allowed a partial view (back)

Exodus 34:29-35 (NASB)
29 It came about when Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the testimony were in Moses' hand as he was coming down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because of his speaking with Him.
30 So when Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him.
31 Then Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the rulers in the congregation returned to him; and Moses spoke to them.
32 Afterward all the sons of Israel came near, and he commanded them to do everything that the LORD had spoken to him on Mount Sinai.
33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.
34 But whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with Him, he would take off the veil until he came out; and whenever he came out and spoke to the sons of Israel what he had been commanded,
35 the sons of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone. So Moses would replace the veil over his face until he went in to speak with Him.

Note; The effect of radiation.

Please explain how a accurate description of radiation's danger, affect and protection appeared in a story about a Alien visiting humans in a fiction book written by numerous authors, distorted by time and translation occurred.

Smile.

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#201705 Jan 11, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the thing, HL.
I do grasp it. I grasp that it cannot exist in physical reality.
Darwin's StepStool does not grasp that. He thinks operations in theoretical math, by inventing the concept of infinity, means it is real.
.. the concept of infinity can be philosophical or scientific ..

.. spiritually, do you believe in infinity - no beginning, no end ??..

.. if so, why are you arguing it with Darwin ??..

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#201706 Jan 11, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
But they don't get it at all. For most people, "infinity" just means a really large value. This is a colloquial meaning, but not the mathematical meaning.
Once, when teaching Calc II, I was working a problem on the board dealing with a limit at infinity. One of my students asked, "What if infinity equals 5,000,000?"
I responded, "But it doesn't."
He came back, "How about if it equals 5,000,005?"
It was headdesk time. I tried to explain, but he just didn't seem to be able to get past his preconceptions. To him, infinity WAS just a really big number.
.. my understanding of higher mathematics is limited ..

.. if there is no number for infinity, if the mystery of time was revealed, where would that leave humanity ??..

.. if everything is everlasting, what is the mechanism that drives it ??..

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#201707 Jan 11, 2014
Jim wrote:
Using acutal logic:
1.If infinity doesn't exist, then god's power is finite.
2. If its finite, then its measurable
.. excellent ..

.. this is why I cannot understand why Buck is taking the position of 'no infinity'..

.. Buck ??..

“MEET ROSEMARY-She Seeks Home”

Since: Oct 10

With Established Harem

#201708 Jan 11, 2014
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
And your First Amendment is widely copied. In our Constitution, the part that guarantees religious freedom is Section 116. It's almost a direct quote.
'The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.'
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol...
.. copycats ..

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201709 Jan 11, 2014
KiMare wrote:
Silly girl. The accurate description of radiation is not a 'prediction'. The problem is, no one predicted another culture becoming exactly what the Alien did. Thousands of years before it happened. Maybe this type of debate is not for you. Smile.
Debate? Is that what you thought you were doing?

Debate is a mutually respectful form of disputation using reasoned argument. What you are doing is putting yourself on display - the quality of your thinking and the quality of your character. How do you think you're doing?

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#201710 Jan 11, 2014
Greens - Tuf wrote:
<quoted text>
The way I see it is like this.
A Universe full of particles can be counted , but outside of this Universe it is One.
Number's only exist when you have separation.
Time does not exist on the other side , hence , nor do numbers.
Also there are only really 9 numbers.
1 to nine , that's it , that's all you need.
Again, I was composing my last post starting before you posted that. We have done that a few times.

But I disagree about the numbers used. Those are just multiples of one turned into blocks, and a one here is just a 1/x, x being unknown. They are also based upon progression in a linear fashion.

The real math of the future will be based on geometry and directions. Using theoretical centerpoints compacted you have 13 comprising the smallest possible 3D "object". Three overlapping planes on a center, eighteen directions to or from the center. Too early in the morning, it may be twelve directions. That is your basic building block. 3D billiard rack. Shared points and continuums creating planes. Even that has issues once you set things in motion due to the nestling of the points.

Those are 60 degree relationships, which just so happens to coincide with cutting angles. Anything over and you start mushing instead slicing.

It takes three centerpoints to create a "dimension", or volume. In all directions. That is the only way you will get a center and two ends of imaginary markers creating a volume. From the initial 13 you can advance one at a time. You just have a shifting center as you progress, IN THAT DIRECTION on that plane. You still need 3 in a row to have a dimension.

The numbering system needs to be changed for math used in physics.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#201711 Jan 11, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Are you planning to share with us what it is that you believe that has given you so much? Maybe some of us would like to have what you have.
KiMare wrote:
You'd need to start with common sense. If you had any, you wouldn't be asking the question... Smirk.
It's remarkable after all of that alien and radiation stuff that you would have any reservations about sharing your core beliefs. But perhaps you have a sense about how you are perceived, and don't want to tarnish your religion.

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