Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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190,341 - 190,360 of 226,517 Comments Last updated 8 min ago

“All your bullets ricochet”

Since: Jun 13

The South Pole

#198505 Jan 3, 2014
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
And Krishna was born of a virgin. As were Perseus and Horus and a whole host of other godlings from a host of different religions. Quite a club. And if you include miraculous births (after all, you brought up Joseph) the club grows tremendously. You get Heracles, Apollo, Theseus, Dionysus and Pan, just to name a few, from the Greek stories alone.
Not too original, are they?

“All your bullets ricochet”

Since: Jun 13

The South Pole

#198506 Jan 3, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
Do you have difficulty conceiving of my support of gay people without being gay?
I also support minority rights and women's rights.
It's about common decency, man. Read your bible.
I get it. The reason that you support human rights is because you're a Homo Sapiens.

That's the best reason.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#198508 Jan 3, 2014
Skombolis wrote:
Well that is kind of my point. How do we address that? If we say someone that needs food for their family should steal it, they have to steal it from someone. And whoever they take it from doesn't deserve to be stolen from. Which is why I think even if an act is understandable, we can't eliminate that it was still immoral to steal.
How do you determine that "whoever" they take it from doesn't deserve it? What if they don't even know who they're stealing from? What if it's a terrorist? What if they're stealing food that was stolen in the first place?

I think we have to explore the validity of ownership. Can you own gases in addition to liquids? Can I own the air above my land? What makes something mine?

I do consider stealing to be immoral, but that shortcut is just a rule of thumb. It's deep deep in the grey area for me.

I personally respect the validity of ownership because I want to be able to own things myself. In American society, for a start, ownership is a legal concept. Ethical decisions regarding stealing would need to take that into account.

My moral beliefs about stealing aren't really helpful in making ethical determinations, so I tend to skip the morality and do the calculation the long way, which means I need as many details about a situation as possible. I use my value system, or alternative value systems, to calculate the best solution I can. I also acknowledge if I come up undecided.
Skombolis wrote:
That's a hard one. I guess maybe if someone is weighing their own values against a societal standard that can occur. I have always seen the two as fairly synonymous. If anything, I normally see ethics as less of a breach than morality. For example, let's say I am about to close a sale on Tuesday for 1000 I-phones. I get an email saying as of Wednesday the price will be cut in half. I meet with the buyer on Tuesday and he asks me if this is the best price I can get for him because they really need to stay under budget. Since the new pricing doesn't go into effect until the next day, technically the higher price is the best I can offer him at the time so I tell him that's the best price I can give it to him for. Technically it is true. I didn't do anything immoral. Yet not very ethical IMO not to let him know he can wait one day and save half.
More grey area.

If everyone followed my particular value system, nobody could possibly get rich.
Skombolis wrote:
So I'm trying to think of a situation that technically would be considered immoral but still the right thing to do. Maybe something like I know for a fact someone molested his step-kid. But I know because I saw video that was illegally set up and if I saw that the case will be thrown out. So instead on the stand I lie and say I saw the crime in person. It was immoral to lie but I know if he goes free he will continue to abuse this kid. Maybe something like that I guess
Lying on the witness stand would not usually serve justice, but if it did, why wouldn't it be the right thing to do, if you can get away with it?

You'd have to be sure. You'd have to trust yourself, and take a risk.

People that aren't interested in justice could lie also, and not get caught.

The law influences only a segment of the population. Most of that influence ends up being beneficial, but sometimes it's not.
Skombolis wrote:
Perhaps. It would be hard for anything to cover all situations. But what scares me about that is the subjectivity. People tend to act in their own self-interest. It can be easy to convince one's self that the rulebook shouldn't apply.
The problem of subjectivity in morality has always existed. As societies progress, that problem lessens.

We have better moral systems now. They'll continue to improve where they can. Like biological evolution, these systems are up for natural selection. Those that can't adapt, or can't adapt fast enough, are likely to die.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#198509 Jan 3, 2014
I can see why some need to think there is a God. Some need that thought since most humans are not Evolved enough just yet to know truths or even truths about who a dollar bill has certain things on it.

Most young guys like 20 or younger are Atheists now so religion is gone in the States in 20 years like Western Europe but for the next 20 years, some are going to still need the fake stuff and the government knows it.

Some of us have certain ways we knew early in life the truth but not saying how that was since not getting in trouble here with that info so will stick with science on the topic there is no God.

Be ready for first contact soon. We broke light speed three times now! Yes, humans have visitors for a long time now watching not harming and about to make contact in next ten to 20 years publicly and with it, religion is gone so people grow up for sure and learn this Galaxy has lot of life in it even some on the Solar system and most is positive but some is not but that is tended to by visitors protecting you for thousands of years already.

As for other Galaxies, they are teaming with life too well more advanced than this large Galaxy that becomes tiny when going into the Universe and then other Universes in Quantum Physics.

BTW, I can say it since no one here would believe it but I have a design of a ship almost ready to travel warp speed for humans yet some materials needed are not found on earth but magnetism and aluminum are. It takes three sections of wings once anti-gravity kicks in on earth plane level then larger wings close, mid size boost speed once in Space then close and tiny wings reach under light speed since speed of light is limit of light only and then they close and boom, it is light 8 cubed! That is moving. Ship is cigar shaped but all is great since no worry that anyone here would believe much of that truth.

Main thing is to get past the religion BS in humanity so humans can get moving in real progress and be ready for a big future where there are no wars. This is why, I selected the Star Trek image since it is so funny how that one TV series had it all right so one brilliant human who had a little help from will just say friends imo that were out of your world but can look just like you and are not out to harm you or do testing on you in space ships lol That is not what it is. You are being watched in a good way and you had help many times in the past and your technology is not fully human. You are using some things a little fast like the Net but sex addiction seems to be a problem which is why I have nickname sexual type when is not important other than to relate.

Any real Atheists who know you are not alone in the Galaxy feel free to PM me.

I'm not giving out State secrets and fear nothing of any nation since no reason to but I go by your laws.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#198510 Jan 3, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Have you ever studied moral theory - so-called metaethics? You're describing consequentialism, one of three major ways of thinking about ethics. The other two, deontological ethics and virtue ethics, deal with obedience to rules, and good intentions.
From http://www.philosophybasics.com/branch_ethics...
"Consequentialism (or Teleological Ethics) argues that the morality of an action is contingent on the action's outcome or result. Thus, a morally right action is one that produces a good outcome or consequence. Consequentialist theories must consider questions like "What sort of consequences count as good consequences?", "Who is the primary beneficiary of moral action?", "How are the consequences judged and who judges them?"
This is contrasted with deontological ethics and virtue ethics:
"Deontology is an approach to ethics that focuses on the rightness or wrongness of actions themselves, as opposed to the rightness or wrongness of the consequences of those actions. It argues that decisions should be made considering the factors of one's duties and other's rights (the Greek 'deon' means 'obligation' or 'duty')."
"Virtue Ethics, focuses on the inherent character of a person rather than on the nature or consequences of specific actions performed. The system identifies virtues (those habits and behaviours that will allow a person to achieve "eudaimonia", or well being or a good life), counsels practical wisdom to resolve any conflicts between virtues, and claims that a lifetime of practising these virtues leads to, or in effect constitutes, happiness and the good life."
I haven't exactly studied it.

I'm interested.

Most of my education in this area came from watching TV shows, mostly science fiction.

I can see value in each of these constructs. What I follow is my own.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#198511 Jan 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a liar and a bigot and a smear artist. You live by the canard.
Then you preach about what is right or wrong.
Bigot, liar, hypocrite, asshole - that's you. Altogether, you are a despicable human being.
Barton offers more primary source documentation of his point of view than you have brain cells to comprehend.
He achieved. You lie. That's the sum of it. Moron.
You practice your same bigotry with anything that ruffles your dreams - including Intelligent Design. And you are not bright enough to do it well.
Add bumbling bigot to your CV.
There is the spastic dance I prophesied.

Since: Sep 10

United States

#198512 Jan 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
It's offensive to ask someone if they are gay?
That suggests there is something wrong with being gay.
You want gayness to be accepted as normal, but take offense at the suggestion of something normal?
What a moron you are, Darwin's Dogpile.
I disagree with your take, Buck.

The suggestion is implicit in the question.

Or why would a straight person ask it of an anonymous poster?

Since: Sep 10

United States

#198513 Jan 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I interpreted your remark as in the material sense. My mistake.
I have no quarrel with your perspective.
One question that comes to mind, I-man. With no belief in an afterlife, how do you avoid deep pessimism?
I was about to reply to your question, but I'll leave it to IANS, who I am sure shares my perspective and can articulate it much better.

It's all about appreciation of life itself.

It's a wonder, and more than enough for me.

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#198514 Jan 3, 2014
I did enjoy the PM about me watching too much Sci Fi but like I wrote back, I watch very little Television yet I do like your Star Trek because it's inventive and your cell phone idea came from that as well as other things like your 3D printing which is soon to be 4D.

I already know your future for the 2020s and that is your wireless electricity that is coming and how your homes and other structures filled with wires and outlets will be like finding a phone booth soon. That is very close to being your reality so no more cords and useless wires everywhere.

If I needed money, I would know which stocks trading for 50 cents that will be $300 a share in five years but not going to do that since not needed but I know the technology that is coming this century through your 29th. All your past, present and future is happening all at once including the Galactic war in your future that earth and allies are losing yet there is hope for that but for this century, getting your world order established as one government like your Star Trek series is needed and it starts with the Americas being as one while Russia and China merge but end of this century no more wars, no more military needed for other nations at least. A new kind of military will be needed for your future and not for one nation against another since there will be only one earth no nations.

It's not aliens that played with your future time travel and got things mixed up for this time. That was you and who says humans are not aliens to this planet? Your DNA is that of Mars and other places combine so you are not even natural to this planet.

There will be no WW3 as governments already found out because it will not be allowed.

The seeing eye in the Pyramids tends to that and it is in the currency you still use for a little longer before you become cashless society in 20 years.

What do you think is on bar codes you use? Mark of a beast? lol. No, there is no such thing but things that are much more important yet it is getting humans ready for first contact since that is near now you broke light speed.

Most here never knew light speed was broken and that I am sure of so will post one of your links.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/ein...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#198515 Jan 3, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree with your take, Buck.
The suggestion is implicit in the question.
Or why would a straight person ask it of an anonymous poster?
For a myriad of possible reasons.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#198516 Jan 3, 2014
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I was about to reply to your question, but I'll leave it to IANS, who I am sure shares my perspective and can articulate it much better.
It's all about appreciation of life itself.
It's a wonder, and more than enough for me.
It's not enough for me.

If 3 score and 7 is all there is, then it is as the writer said,...

"Nasty, brutish, and short"

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#198517 Jan 3, 2014
Jim

Scunthorpe, UK

#198518 Jan 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
For a myriad of possible reasons.
Look what sad creature hath spawned from the sewers of Creationism's Discovery Institute...
Jim

Scunthorpe, UK

#198519 Jan 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not enough for me.
If 3 score and 7 is all there is, then it is as the writer said,...
"Nasty, brutish, and short"
We all know that you're a Creationist Cult Member now, so you can take your hatred and intolerance to another forum instead.

No such thing as god, never has been and nothing you can do about it.

Peace.
Jim

Scunthorpe, UK

#198520 Jan 3, 2014
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not enough for me.
If 3 score and 7 is all there is, then it is as the writer said,...
"Nasty, brutish, and short"
Modern Society is just too smart to buy today's Creationist Bullsh*t.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#198521 Jan 3, 2014
Jim wrote:
<quoted text>
Look what sad creature hath spawned from the sewers of Creationism's Discovery Institute...
Fogbreather, you can say brave things when there is an ocean separating us.

I bet you have a very punchable face.

Brits have a weak, inbred gene pool. That's why you have weak chins and bad teeth.

Your gums are so bad your spit looks like Yoohoo.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#198522 Jan 3, 2014
Jim wrote:
<quoted text>
Modern Society is just too smart to buy today's Creationist Bullsh*t.
Have you had your spotted dick today?

“Ungood doubleplus duckspeak.”

Since: Dec 12

Earth

#198523 Jan 3, 2014
I can't think of anything more pathetic and futile than threatening to hit people online.

Except maybe threatening people with imaginary hell.

I'm sure no one is shaking in their boots.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#198524 Jan 3, 2014
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, Dave, but since we're discussing wisdom. and since you feel free to be candid about me, I'm sure you won't mind if I return the favor and tell you that you are neither kind nor wise. You are fool. This post of yours is the evidence of it yet again, as was your insipid definition of wisdom a few posts back. You are a horrible judge of people, most especially yourself.
You somehow miss the obvious. Evidence doesn't matter to you, or you can't recognize it when it goes by you. Buck and I agree on almost nothing,and yet we have each been kind to the other.
But you're in a coma. You're mentally sluggish. So you just miss that, and make inane comments instead.Your judgment is horrible,
And I can't remember a single constructive sentence from you commending or encouraging somebody else ever. You give nothing.
.
Any time you'd like some more feedback like this, just let me know by giving me one of your nasty little critiques of me, OK?
Or, if you have enough intelligence and self-respect to recognize the consequences of these exchanges for you, maybe you can just put that ugly habit of yours to bed altogether. Your choice. You really don't need anybody pointing out your failings. I promise you that you are the loser. It's remarkable that you haven't discerned that yourself yet.
So what do you say?
yawn

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#198525 Jan 3, 2014
Divinity Surgeon wrote:
I can't think of anything more pathetic and futile than threatening to hit people online.
Except maybe threatening people with imaginary hell.
I'm sure no one is shaking in their boots.
Thank you for your useless and futile opinion, AssLump.

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