Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#195040 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you think of a philosophy that teaches one to divert her attention from this world to another one and from this life to the next one, to think of man as diseased with sin and capable of no good, to see animals as soulless meat bags put on earth to be dominated and exploited, and to think that the world he inhabits is corrupt, evil, getting worse every day, and fit for apocalyptic annihilation any day now?
Is authentic spirituality possible given that world view?
Uh, that is the kind of philosophy that causes one to strive for more and evolve.

The always looking for something better. How you strive to get off Tobacco Road.

You have to look past the immediate for such to occur.

You don't get those things by being a dope smoking intellectual. Lotus eaters make lousy real world intellects.

BTW, since you are atheist you know animals are soulless meat bags. As are men. A major tenet of your "non-religion".

You are less than consistent in your argumentation. Maybe that is because you just like to argue?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#195041 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? The evidence contradicts that. Almost every atheist repudiates those people and their values.
Almost every Christian, however, defends the church and its values.
We could use the theist lie,"They aren't 'real' atheists."

“The who whating how...”

Since: Dec 12

"...with huh?"

#195042 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>What do you think of a philosophy that teaches one to divert her attention from this world to another one and from this life to the next one, to think of man as diseased with sin and capable of no good, to see animals as soulless meat bags put on earth to be dominated and exploited, and to think that the world he inhabits is corrupt, evil, getting worse every day, and fit for apocalyptic annihilation any day now?

Is authentic spirituality possible given that world view?
Doubtful, authentic spirituality requires self realisation, living in a fantasy world would prevent that.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195044 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism, like marijuana, is responsible for no deaths. God beliefs can lead to murder, but the rejection of them cannot. Atheists that have murdered did not murder because they were atheists.
<quoted text>
Those were all religions with human gods.
Totalitarian ideologies like Stalinism and Maoism and religions like Islam and Christianity are cults of personality that require worship and obeisance to a larger-than-life übermensch, human in one case, supernatural in the other.
Besides requiring worship, they all employ terrorism, thought and information control techniques, and a requirement for submission and absolute obedience. Each feature long histories of genocide.
Both the totalitarian regimes you named and religions are characterized by excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to the god or godlike personality, which is required, and whose dicta are treated as truths beyond debate.Members thoughts and behaviors are dictated, and shame, guilt, and threats are employed to control them. Whatever means are deemed necessary to achieve some larger than life goal are justified, leading initiates to do things that they would have considered reprehensible outside of the group. These are the values of Christianity, Stalinism, Islam, and Maoism.
By contrast, most atheists are humanists who value reason, cooperation, freedom, peace, tolerance, negotiation, democracy, peace, egalitarianism, justice, compassion, individuality, autonomy, self-actualization, and political freedom. Christianity, Stalinism, Islam, and Maoism.are antithetical to all of those.
You have no argument against atheism here, just one against absolutist ideologies and cults of personality. In fact, from the Affirmations of Humanism comes, "We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others."
Bull shit. Totally.

Atheism is not the rejection of god-beliefs. It has it's own god-belief - and many have been willing to kill to advance it.

This solidifies my insistence on understanding what atheism is - it is a belief. Exoneration for mass murder is a pretty good motivation for wanting to dilute the term, huh?

Atheism is the champion of mass murder, and you don't have to go back a thousand years. Atheism sets the all-time record if you only count their bodies piled up over the last 75 years.

You don't get to blame Islam for Bin Laden and let atheism off the hook for Stalin. If one has a cursory familiarity with history, reads the Communist Manifesto, or Mein Kamf, you see atheism - front and center - as a means to an envisioned Utopia where man is freed from the shackles of theism. Stalin stated it himself, plainly. Hitler killed for anti-theism. It was incompatible with his Darwinist motivation concerning race.

Atheists murdered millions because they were atheists. And they murdered for atheism.

The phony attempts at a double standard does not help the cause.



“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195045 Dec 22, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> More of a factual observation. You are damaged goods.
<quoted text> I am only going by the results and the way things are today. I know about Christianity but the jury is out on whether i am actually Christian in the practicing sort of way It is you who confess the sins of your parents on a public board.[tacky] Why not confess your own sins as opposed to the alleged sins of your parents? My back gets up when my kin is threatened along with the children of other families you openly admit you would like to beat because they are not homosexuals. Oh you are a shining example for the atheists. A real piece of work.
<quoted text> You are hateful and dysfunctional. You need help and that does not necessarily make me feel better. Although i think i better understand you now, assuming you are telling the truth. <quoted text> Just keep rapping on for the clown wing of the atheist movement or whatever it is. Glad your not on my side. You would think ill of me no matter what i posted. You make reckless statements about beating other peoples children because they are not homosexual and you get what you deserve. Glad all atheists are not like you. Here is a song for you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =jmeqFqAi-CEXX
Another fundie tantrum. LOLOLMAO!

Too busy judging others, contrary to what Jesus said, to bother reading anything. Or do you like to distort everything deliberately. That's called bearing false witness.

S*cks to be you, fundie.

“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195046 Dec 22, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it's possible.
I'll second that.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195047 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's also unimportant whether he was a Christian or not. What is most important is that the Christian clergy and a nation of Christian people supported him. What is important is that Christianity was not incompatible with Naziism. What is important is that if you are a demagogue, you can't do better than to have a mostly Christian nation to manipulate. What is important is that if you were a Jew in a concentration camp waiting for the tens of millions of church trained Christians in Nazi Germany to stand up and say, "This is wrong! Stop, Herr Hitler!" you were a dead Jew - not what Hitler actually believed.
I for one would feel much safer living among a nation of people like the non-Christians in this thread than in a nation like the Christians here, especially if a demagogue became president. I would trust the unbelievers to be smarter and morally stronger. The unfortunate truth is that to get a Christian to consent to anything, including genocide, all you need to do is convince them that it is their god's will. That's the definition of moral goodness.
Are you familiar with divine command theory? From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_command_t... : "Divine command theory is a meta-ethical theory which proposes that an action's status as morally good is equivalent to whether it is commanded by God. The theory asserts that what is moral is determined by what God commands, and that to be moral is to follow his commands."
The Christian moms and dads of this country sent their sons off to die to defeat Hitler, and free the Jews, atheists, humanists, or whomever was oppressed.

There are several cemeteries, here and in Europe, lined with white crosses to signify the act.

They felt it was their Christian duty to humanity. It was a heavy sacrifice.

https://www.google.com/search...

“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195048 Dec 22, 2013
LuciFerr wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol.
Yeah it's summer, I grew up in Sydney but now live in Queensland, near the top, where it's pretty much summer all the time but right now it's scorching.
We have a lot in common, you will become an even more magnificent woman, world needs more of those.
I'll say! The temperature here's been hovering in the high 30s (that's Celsius, Yanks) for the last few days.

It should be a warm Xmas too. I might go the beach in the afternoon, after dinner.

I've been to Queensland in summer when I was a kid. You Banana Benders can have all that bl00dy humidity!!!

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#195049 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Good example. Here's another:
"Lipophobicity, also sometimes called lipophobia (from the Greek lipos "fat" and phobos "fear"), is a chemical property of chemical compounds which means "fat rejection", literally "fear of fat". Lipophobic compounds are those not soluble in lipids or other non-polar solvents. From the other point of view, they do not absorb fats."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipophobicity
Are you familiar with the variety of semantic fallacy called the root fallacy? From http://dradney.wordpress.com/2010/04/22/word-...
"The Root Fallacy: presupposes that every word actually has a meaning bound up with its shape or its components. That is, the meaning of a word is determined by its etymology. This fallacy also relates to finding the meaning of a word by dissecting the meaning of each of its parts and then defining it as the sum of the parts."
If interested, you can look at http://kenschenck.com/wordbenefits.html for a cursory overview of the various types of semantic fallacies - the root fallacy, the etymological fallacy, the one-meaning fallacy, the lexical fallacy, and the word-concept fallacy.
Nice!

I recall the Root Fallacy, and most of the others - but I'd forgotten the lipophobes.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#195050 Dec 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Bull shit. Totally.
Atheism is not the rejection of god-beliefs. It has it's own god-belief - and many have been willing to kill to advance it.
This solidifies my insistence on understanding what atheism is - it is a belief. Exoneration for mass murder is a pretty good motivation for wanting to dilute the term, huh?
Atheism is the champion of mass murder, and you don't have to go back a thousand years. Atheism sets the all-time record if you only count their bodies piled up over the last 75 years.
You don't get to blame Islam for Bin Laden and let atheism off the hook for Stalin. If one has a cursory familiarity with history, reads the Communist Manifesto, or Mein Kamf, you see atheism - front and center - as a means to an envisioned Utopia where man is freed from the shackles of theism. Stalin stated it himself, plainly. Hitler killed for anti-theism. It was incompatible with his Darwinist motivation concerning race.
Atheists murdered millions because they were atheists. And they murdered for atheism.
The phony attempts at a double standard does not help the cause.
The God belief is the champion of mass murder. Just look at what they worship. A deity who killed every human on the planet with the exception of one man's family according to their "good" book.

What a wonderful example to follow.

“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195051 Dec 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Then it's fair to say every atheist endorses the genocide of Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pott, Stalin, and Lenin.
You have a thousand times more deaths to answer for.
Atheism is a wicked belief, huh?
No it isn't. But COMMUNISM was a wicked belief, I agree with what my father always said.

Good thing it collapsed last century, except for North Korea.

“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195052 Dec 22, 2013
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Homophile.
That's a new one for me.
It's almost derogatory sounding.
Almost.
I can't wait to use it.
Well, it's a lot less derogatory than the old f**hag. Nevermind, I can wear it with pride.

I like that one! As a homophile, I can say that I do love them - but know very well it isn't in the romantic Hollywood-style way.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195053 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a powerful post, Buck. You have more cachet with the Christians than we atheists.
I'm a little confused about where you stand regarding organized religion. Is it a net positive or net negative in your estimation?
If a net negative, do you see any positives to organized religion, even if they are more than offset by the negatives. The usual positives ascribed to Christianity is that it reinforces good moral values and is an important source of charity to the needy. Would you agree with either of those claims, and would you add any to that list?.
Would you consider the world a better or worse place if the Christian church just evaporated away? How about Islam?
Do you consider your private beliefs religion?
I believe in a fair fight, doc. Be it with fists or with words.

I think religion is a net negative. But I resist the denial of the positives, because they are important.

I think the world would be better off if all organized religion disbanded.

My private beliefs are not religious. I profess spirituality.

I believe there is only one sin - unkindness. I believe we continue after physical death, in some way, but I do not fully understand it.

I believe in that continuation, the only thing about the present life that matters is what we do for someone else.

When I do something bad to another, I feel bad. When I do something kind, I feel good.

I think that connects me to things outside me.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195054 Dec 22, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
The God belief is the champion of mass murder. Just look at what they worship. A deity who killed every human on the planet with the exception of one man's family according to their "good" book.
What a wonderful example to follow.
If that happened as you state it, God killed them. Not a god-belief.

“Rainbow: God's covenant ”

Since: May 07

Clearwater and Honolulu

#195055 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know if I'm the poster you are thinking of now, but that is my opinion, and I have stated it in these threads.
<quoted text>
What Juice (LuciFerr to you) said was, "if life was fair, we would be burning them on stakes or beating their children for not being gay."
Humanism doesn't advocate revenge, nor did Juice.
Nevertheless, slightly modified, the essence of her point is valid. It would be just to treat Christians as they have treated others, like gays and atheists. For example, it would be just if popular opinion changed so much that it was considered shameful and a moral failing to be a Christian, and many Christians chose to be closeted because of it.
It would also be just to redefine marriage as between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, and tell you that you had equal rights - you were free to marry your own gender.
I don't expect you to agree. I expect you to be outraged and feel injured by the comment.
Should we be just, or should we be merciful? I say the latter. Why? Because my humanist values are better than your church's. For example, I actually try to live the Golden Rule, not merely give it lip service. Nobody wants to be treated the way it treats gays and atheists.
Thank you. You do get to the heart of it. I'm not outraged nor have you injured me or my church. I will say this might be a pointless discussion but I'll try. From my pov saying a person is Christian doesn't make it so. God states this as well.(Matthew 7:21-23) I've been reading some commentaries of late on many of the faith that were killed by the established church. Many here in this forum would no doubt call all of those people Christian, I wouldn't. Nothing new under the sun. Hate and murder have been around since the 2nd generation of man. People will always try to give an excuse. God knows who belongs to Him. Just speaking for me and my wife but we are thankful to be part of the faith, no going back.

“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195056 Dec 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't smear Christians.
No need.
They smear themselves enough.
It's called encoprensis.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.c...
http://www.minddisorders.com/Del-Fi/Encopresi...

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#195057 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? The evidence contradicts that. Almost every atheist repudiates those people and their values.
Almost every Christian, however, defends the church and its values.
Almost every Christian repudiates the Inquisition and the witch trials.

The RCC even apologized for most of their atrocities.

Not that that means much.

A few years back, they even admitted Galileo was right.

“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195059 Dec 22, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> You always post the truth about yourself. Youre a desperate troll with no evidence and you lie about God. The billions of faithful have evidence and put their money where their faith is. They do a lot of good works, notwithstanding any problems due to the human condition.
Soo...what good works have YOU done lately, Bongo the drongo.

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#195060 Dec 22, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists murdered millions because they were atheists. And they murdered for atheism.
The phony attempts at a double standard does not help the cause.
Where do have evidence that they killed "in the name of atheism"?

As opposed to the Christ-crusaders killed in the name of God!

Pol Pot, Mao, and Stalin killed because they were evil dictators.
They killed for power. They also happened to be atheists. So what?

You can't say atheism was solely responsible. Just look at the Netherlands
and other secular countries such as Japan today. Much lower crime rates
than the more religious ones.

“Merry Yuletide”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#195061 Dec 22, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
LOL. You have got to be one of the most repulsive people on Topix. You contribute nothing better than these pieces of verbal stool that you crap down your leg and litter the thread with.
More encoprensis. Or maybe even scatolia.
http://allnurses.com/geriatric-nurses-ltc/cop...
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/scatolia

Scatolia was a better answer to Catcher's post, actually.

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