Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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#184762
Nov 16, 2013
 

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Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. I see you still haven't learned anything in all the time you have been on Topix. Still pushing this false definition of atheism.
Now I am not saying there are NO atheists that fit your description. What I will say is that of all the atheists I know, NONE of them fit it however. All the atheists I know hold to the position that there is no evidence for any god and therefore belief in any god is not warranted.
Now I realize the difference between this and what you think atheism is can be rather subtle, and you don't do subtle. But take my word on it, there is an important difference.
Ask yourself this...does it take faith for you to have a lack of belief in Vishnu?
Lack of belief is not atheism, DogPecker.

There are other terms for lack of belief.

Under your definition, a dog or Billy Graham in a coma would be an atheist.

More "false definitions"??

Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).

Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia).

Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God.(Oxford Companion to Philosophy).

Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor).

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#184763
Nov 16, 2013
 

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http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
Dave Nelson wrote:
You can only be aware of dreams if you are conscious in some fashion.
Agreed.
Dave Nelson wrote:
Those are high level thoughts.
I thought that it was pretty self-evident.

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#184764
Nov 16, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps you haven't.
I notice that you chose to withhold your position on the matter.
So let me ask: Was your created, or does do you claim that it exists uncreated? I need to know what your requirements are for things that exist before we can proceed to discuss cells.
I should probably warn you in advance that if you invoke special pleading, we will have no further basis for discussion. My argument for abiogenesis is essentially that cells exist, and if nothing designed them, they must have organized themselves. There is no legitimate argument that that is impossible acceptable from somebody that makes an exception for his god.
If we are using reason as our basis, your argument is fallacious by virtue of special pleading. If we are arguing by faith, then just accept my claim. If those terms aren't acceptable, then we have an insufficient number of shared assumptions for a meaningful exchange of information to proceed.
Amusing.

The only thing you "need" is finding a way out of providing what I asked.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#184765
Nov 16, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
Why is that relevant to this discussion?
RiversideRedneck wrote:
You brought it up, or do you not remember the whole landline phone call as evidence of a location comment?
Yes, I remember my comments. I asked you why you thought your response to them was relevant. You're one of those people that I describe as being too much work to talk with. It takes about six posts to get through a simple idea. It's like rolling a boulder uphill. I'd like to share ideas with you, but it's too hard. You don't have the necessary foundational skills for intellectual pursuits. They have obviously never been important to you in the past, so I doubt that they are now.

Do you find that offensive? I hope not. I would expect you to agree. You generally mock intellectual pursuits.

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#184766
Nov 16, 2013
 
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Gee, never heard of them or any of their music. They must have never made it very high in the charts. You should listen to "Summer Breeze" by Seals & Croft, good 70's music.
Ho hum.
Good music?

Here's some:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

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#184767
Nov 16, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Or they were created the same way you & I were.
Just sayin.
<quoted text>
Lol. Criminal behavior?
<quoted text>
You'll find out one day.
<quoted text>
So? I've made plenty of comments about things God can't do. Is this your first time reading them?
<quoted text>
Every part.
<quoted text>
Create. Love. Comfort. Encourage. Care. Take away your worries, etc.
Oh, and grant you eternal life.
See?
You learned absolutely nothing from Hiding.
You're the same buffoon you were when you arrived here.

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#184768
Nov 16, 2013
 
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>

He has intelligence, warmth and manners....
Thanks, Albert.

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#184769
Nov 16, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Since you have steadfastly refused to describe what you mean when you use that word [1][2], I don't know what you are claiming. This comment suggests that you have a flawed notion of what openmindedness and closemindedness are, as did your comments that I am closeminded. Not by my understanding of the term.
Until you clarify this matter, I can only treat this as a faith based claim, and thank you for sharing your opinion, whatever it means.
[1] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
[2] http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...
One thing that should be amply evident to even the casual reader is the difference between our temperaments regarding rigor, precision consistency and sound argumentation. I require them, since without them, no progress can be made in intellectual pursuits, which is exactly what is happening here.
:-)

You are saying you can't proceed unless you have more dancing room?

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#184770
Nov 16, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
What the hell are you doing, man?
You're not supposed to use a dictionary, just make it up as you go.
Atheist:
noun
A person who attacks others because they have a religion.
QED

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#184771
Nov 16, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
Then you understand that every person that has had a personal experience with God knows that's evidence of His existence.
(Without empirical evidence, just like dreams)
Thank you.
I have never doubted or disputed that you interpret elements of your world as evidence of a god. You have told us about your perception of having been touched on the head, which you attributed to a god. That you had an experience of some sort is probably a fact. I believe you when you say you did. Your interpretation of is an opinion. In this sense, the dream metaphor is apt.

None of that has any value for me. Like most others, I have little use for what you believe - just what you know and can convincingly argue or demonstrate. I have always thought that your god belief was faith based. I still do.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#184772
Nov 16, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
you should concede that God (or A god) exists and nobody's trying to convince you of a lie.
I don't think you're lying, just wrong.

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#184773
Nov 16, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Yes, I remember my comments. I asked you why you thought your response to them was relevant. You're one of those people that I describe as being too much work to talk with. It takes about six posts to get through a simple idea. It's like rolling a boulder uphill. I'd like to share ideas with you, but it's too hard. You don't have the necessary foundational skills for intellectual pursuits. They have obviously never been important to you in the past, so I doubt that they are now.
Do you find that offensive? I hope not. I would expect you to agree. You generally mock intellectual pursuits.
Oh, are we having an intellectual discussion?

I don't mock intellectual pursuits, I mock the self-proclaimed intellectual.

I see you supposed intellectuals as nothing more than grown-up nerds that think you've found something better than sex and alcohol.

I'm glad you think I don't have the necessary foundational skills for intellectual pursuits, I don't wanna be in your nerd club.

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#184774
Nov 16, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
See?
You learned absolutely nothing from Hiding.
You're the same buffoon you were when you arrived here.
What?

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#184775
Nov 16, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
QED
You want proof of atheists attacks on people just because they're religious?

C'mon counselor, you're stupid but you're not THAT stupid.

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#184776
Nov 16, 2013
 
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Dont be so hard on septic, after all, you denied Jesus. Varmit
I think my wife left me for Jesus.

'Cause when I was churnin' her butter, she was yelling his name.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#184777
Nov 16, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F reethought
Oh, I forgot. In the index you will see the section called history. Within that section you will find a list of "movements" "a group of people working together to advance their shared political, social, or artistic ideas." "Freethinking" Say moo.
:-)
Your link reports, "Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds opinions should be formed on the basis of logic, reason, and empiricism, rather than authority, tradition, or other dogmas"

Do you understand what those words mean? They do not mean that we all have different or original thoughts. The definition refers to the method or process by which beliefs are arrived at, not the beliefs themselves. We can all have exactly the same idea and still be freethinkers. In fact, if our method is valid, we should reach similar conclusions, given that we all have the same evidence.

Moo yourself. In your ignorance, you mock only yourself.

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#184778
Nov 16, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, silky pants.
You clearly have a need to categorize people, according to their beliefs or nonbeliefs.

If I tell you that my view is that belief in the supernatural, any of it and all of it, is infantile and silly, where does that place me?

I will consider a response intended as ridicule to be a concession.

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#184779
Nov 16, 2013
 
RiversideRedneck wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, are we having an intellectual discussion?
I don't mock intellectual pursuits, I mock the self-proclaimed intellectual.
I see you supposed intellectuals as nothing more than grown-up nerds that think you've found something better than sex and alcohol.
I'm glad you think I don't have the necessary foundational skills for intellectual pursuits, I don't wanna be in your nerd club.
Good.

Go play with your chickens.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#184780
Nov 16, 2013
 

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RiversideRedneck wrote:
Incorrect. I claim that God gives us free will, which means I control my own actions. I control myself.
Unless the Lord hardens your heart, of course.

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#184781
Nov 16, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't intend to rebut the same issues with Buck repeatedly, but in case you missed it, this is my position:
"I'm advocating the actual meaning of words both historically ... "
The meaning of words is what the people discussing them agree they are. Dictionaries don't determine what that is (prescriptivism), they merely report how people are actually using language (descriptivism), generally about ten years after the fact.
"... and by the consensus of academic usage."
Academic usage is only of interest in academic contexts. In a medical school lecture or a paper in a professional journal - academic settings - the word "stomach" refers to the organ in the abdomen that connects the esophagus to the bowel. On Topix, if you want to call your abdomen your stomach, as when saying that your stomach is flat, I will understand you, and not quibble with you or demand like Buck that you adhere to some academic standard. Technical language from being constrained to be effective, but informal language need to be allowed to evolve.
"We don't get to make up meanings for words"
Yes we do, as described above.
"skepticism is a suspended judgement."
Skepticism is the requirement for evidence and or reason to believe. Skeptics judge that evidence and argument as part of skepticism, as I did when I rejected flawed and/or unsupported god claims.
"Atheism is a belief that no god exists - judgement rendered."
Atheism is the rejection of god claims, and requires that judgement to be made if one considers the claims.
"An atheist cannot be a skeptic on the issue"
The two are not on not incompatible as Buck suggests, a rational skeptic - somebody that requires compelling evidence and argument before believing - cannot be anything but an atheist until the theists produce an argument that is not fallacious.
But I've said all of this to him, and though I would repeat it for you or anybody just entering the discussion, as I said, I have no interest in emulating Buck with endless repetition of exactly the same ideas.
Since I soundly refuted those ideas, you might have at least tried to revise and extend.

No requirement for such, though.

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