Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 20 comments on the Jul 18, 2009, Webbunny tumblelog story titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183792 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
I remember it well.
Religion brainwashes you to believe you are a worthless POS unless you submit to the teachings of a saviour person Jesus/Muhammed/etc.
It teaches we are all sinners due to the fall of man, from the fable of adam and eve disobeying God in the garden of Eden.
You endlessly repeat you lack of self worth in prayer and in church, over and over.
As the story goes all humans are worthless and destined for eternal fire unless they believe in Jesus, eat his flesh at mass in the form of a wafer, pray fervently, pay tithes. That last bit most important of all! I wonder why?
Then you as one of the lucky few, the elect, will enjoy the company of angels singing eternal praises to Gawd in heaven or if Muslim the sensual pleasures of 72 virgins in paradise. Comforted in the knowledge that the 99% in hell or purgatory have willingly chosen their eternal punishment.
So kind, so loving, this "God". You could imagine that it was just made up by priests to scare the living daylights out of people!
Yep.

The message of religion is that all of humanity is worthless pond scum--

-- and only by magic spell-casting, can a select few **elite** be "graciously" allowed to grovel at the feet of the creator.

....WTF?

Pass. It's all ugly, no matter how you pretty it up with words.
Thinking

UK

#183793 Nov 13, 2013
To unweave the rainbow does not make the rainbow less special.
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. it seems you base your position completely on evolution and fail to consider the entire psychological architecture of humans including intuition ..
.. do you go with a 'gut feeling' when it supersedes logic ??..
.. self-transcendence, the feeling that you're part of something grander, is familiar to most humans, even atheists. Is that evolution or the desire to fuse with the unknown ??..
.. it is my contention that spirituality is an intricate part of who we are. To write it off as evolution is a grievous error and a denial of self, the wonderment of life ..

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#183794 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Whether it is wise to found a nation on religious concepts is another question.
The answer to the first question is, yes, that is the historical record - America was founded on religious concepts.
Your argument on this question is contrary to facts.

Name the religious concepts America was founded on.
Freedom of religion?
That isn't specifically a religious concept, but it is a concept of the free. Please explain what religious concepts you're talking about.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183795 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
It seems that you didn't understand what I wrote. Let me repeat:
The validity of rational skepticism is confirmed by evidence, which is is what makes it radically different from faith. Rational skepticism has taught us to reject the claims of kings and priests about our world and our place in it. As a result, we have replaced the sterile and stifling systems of the Middle Ages - the Age of Faith - with such powerful innovations as empirical science and the rights of men. The results have been stunningly successful and have made lives better.
What are the comparable fruits of religious faith? Equating the two is the fraud, Buck.
Buck has lost any and all ability to think beyond his own little self-imposed delusions.

That much has become clear.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183796 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
"Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up must come down, down. down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it." – Dan Barker
Scientist no but Atheist oh yes.
Thinking

UK

#183797 Nov 13, 2013
I don't worship Evolution any more than I worship gravity.

Evolution is unfeeling, unthinking. However it is real.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
"My favorite God created organism is the parasitic worm that burrows into the eyeballs of children."
Your marvelous evolution Doctor. The same evolution you praise and think so highly of.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183798 Nov 13, 2013
Just Think wrote:
There is not now, nor has there ever been, any proof that any of the thousands of gods ever worshiped actually existed.
Atheism requires no faith at all.
Atheism requires faith in evoluuuuuuuuuuuuuution.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#183799 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Nobody can be an "agnostic atheist".
Self-contradictory terms.
I don't see why they contradict.

I, for example, am an atheist.

But if someone provides proof of a deity, any deity, I will of course have to change that.

Now what?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183800 Nov 13, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
More than 50% of Chinese follow no religion
Not necessarily so, the very definition says agnostics believe that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God. Not the same as believing in a creator. The majority of agnostics I know tell me they don’t believe in a god because there is no proof of a god but should proof be offered then they will evaluate that proof. They also don’t believe that chocolate teapots inhabit Venus either but should evidence be provided then…
I’m with you up to the aliens, my view is that the universe is so huge with billions of galaxies each with billions of suns. Recent observations tell us that a considerable percentage of those suns must hold planets and a percentage of those planets are in what is known as the goldilocks zone and some even contain water. Then if at least a small percentage of those planets do not contains alien live of some sort then the universe is a huge waste of space.
Christianity has always been strong is Russia, it currently accounts for about 45% of the population
Re: inhabitable planets.

The most recent analysis of stellar observational data, strongly suggest that there are billions of planets with the "magic" numbers to support life, as we understand it on Earth.

Billions of chances to make life happen elsewhere, than here.

This would mean? That even if the odds of life spontaneously starting are a million to one? There would be more than 100 million planets **with** life among those billions.

Imagine that?

:D

But wait-- it gets better-- the above? Is just within the Milky Way galaxy.

Remember the deep field study, where the most powerful telescopes were pointed at the "dark" regions of our night sky for weeks?

And the discovery that there are trillions of whole **galaxies** within the visible universe?

Each one harboring **multiple-billions** of "goldilox" planets within?

Again, to statistics-- that means that the odds of life elsewhere in the greater universe is so close to 1:1 that it may as well be 1.

:)

Of course-- since the universe is so large, the odds of any of that life **ever** getting to **earth** are ... on the small side.

Unless there is a cheat, that permits rapid travel that we are unaware of-- always a possibility.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#183801 Nov 13, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism requires faith in evoluuuuuuuuuuuuuution.
No, it really doesn't.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183802 Nov 13, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Not to mention the possibility there is life that can develop outside of the Goldilocks zone, or in higher dimensions, or in dark matter or parallel universes or... I could just say "god dunnit" but that seems so very unimaginative.
<quoted text>
If you allow for non-carbon/DNA based life? Certainly a possibility we cannot dismiss-- examples of extremophiles on Earth are plentiful.

Then the odds of life elsewhere than earth, within the Milky Way, are a certainty.(as certain as anything in science, of course).

Of course--we have no reasonable way to calculate the odds of any life-bearing planet developing a self-aware, tool-using sentient such as ourselves.

And it's also quite difficult to calculate the odds of such a species surviving long enough to leave the planetary nest behind, instead of perishing from some catastrophe or other--be it self-made or something akin to a "dino killer asteroid".

So we cannot say what the chances are that such a species should ever visit earth-- I'd have to guess that they are vanishingly small.

Be that as it may? The odds that life exists on other places in our own Milky Way? Are as near to 1:1 as you like.

But I do not expect to be visited by any in anyone's comfortable lifetime--

-- mostly because space is so ... vast.

A fact that your typical godbot is entirely unable to grasp.

What with their near-total lack of a scientific education...

.... sad, really.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183803 Nov 13, 2013
The Sins and Neglect of Fathers Leads to Atheism, Says Author

Author delves into psychological reasons behind the widespread denial of God

SAN FRANCISCO, Nov. 7, 2013 /Christian Newswire/-- Sigmund Freud claimed that once a child or youth is disappointed in or loses respect for his earthly father, belief in a heavenly father becomes impossible. A child's tumultuous relationship with their father is the determining factor in the widespread rise of atheism, claims Dr. Paul Vitz in his controversial new book, FAITH OF THE FATHERLESS: The Psychology of Atheism.

As a former atheist, Vitz exposes atheism to the same psychological analysis that atheist apologists have used to debunk religious belief. FAITH OF THE FATHERLESS shows how psychoanalysis is actually a better explanation for the denial of God. Being disappointed in one's earthly father, whether through death, absence or mistreatment, often leads to a rejection of God. The crisis of fatherhood in our culture has us in the midst of a 500-year period of adolescence that glorifies aggression and sexual exploitation, according to Vitz.

A biographical survey of influential atheists of the past four centuries -- Freud, Friedrich Nietzche, Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins, among many others -- shows that this "defective father hypothesis" provides a consistent explanation of the "intense atheism" of these thinkers. A survey of the leading defenders of Christianity over the same period -- G.K. Chesterton, Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Edmund Burke, among others -- confirms the hypothesis, finding few defective fathers. Vitz concludes with an intriguing comparison of male and female atheists and a consideration of other psychological factors that can contribute to atheism.

Throughout FAITH OF THE FATHERLESS, Vitz does not argue that atheism is psychologically determined. He provides an exposition of the psychological factors predisposing a person to atheism and strongly confirms the essential importance of the role of a good father in a family.

"In deploying Freudian theory against atheism itself, Paul Vitz has proven beyond a doubt what's missing from secular accounts of secularization, namely, actual human beings," says cultural commentator Mary Eberstadt. "His thesis is intellectual jujutsu of the first order."

Vitz is a former professor of psychology at New York University and was an atheist until his late 30s.

http://www.christiannewswire.com/news/9233773...
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183804 Nov 13, 2013
Thinking wrote:
I don't worship Evolution any more than I worship gravity.
Evolution is unfeeling, unthinking. However it is real.
<quoted text>
Take a deep breath and breath out sloooooowly, "evoluuuuuuuution."
Thinking

UK

#183805 Nov 13, 2013
Buck will lie again, that's what.
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>I don't see why they contradict.
I, for example, am an atheist.
But if someone provides proof of a deity, any deity, I will of course have to change that.
Now what?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183806 Nov 13, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. then why do atheists say, "I don't believe in God" ??..
<quoted text>
.. what makes you think I wouldn't get it ??..
.. most atheists I know have said, "I'm atheist," or "I don't believe in God." ..
.. are you saying all believers are unreasonable ??..
I **am** saying that **most** are.

And your first post in this thread (at least in a while) starts out with an attempt to insult atheists, does not bode well for your credibility.

Which are you? Unreasonable or reasonable?

Atheism is **not** a faith based stance-- it is a **lack** of faith, in fact.

Just as "clear" or transparent is not a color.

If you had bothered to **listen** to your (likely fictional) atheist "friends", you would have already been aware of this fact.

That you would begin with such an inflammatory and patently **false** claim?

Says nothing good about **you**.
Thinking

UK

#183807 Nov 13, 2013
No, but you seem obliged to get Evolution all mixed up with creation.
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism requires faith in evoluuuuuuuuuuuuuution.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183808 Nov 13, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Just because a believer is not reasoning does not mean they are unreasonable in the social meaning of the word.
<quoted text>
Although, if you judge believers by **this** thread?

They are-- every one of them-- unreasonable in all phases of their lives.

I hope to be proven wrong on this one-- but I won't hold my breath.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183809 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Blob crossed himself up.
He inadvertently disclaimed his own position.
He won't realize it.
Hate speech and projective bullshyt duly noted and recorded.

You would not recognize a position if it smacked you in your dull, and over-fed face.

Sad.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183810 Nov 13, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Just considering the form of life we know, there could very easily be alternatives to carbon/water/goldilocks. Given what is known about the ability of carbon based life to exist in extreme and hostile environments then I see no reason to discount alternatives
And true (real true, not Christian “True”), the “doh, I don’ unnerstan’ so it muss be my god wot dunit by magic” just does not make a lot of since in the real world of reality
Agreed.

The odds that life exist elsewhere in the Milky Way? Are pretty much 1:1.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183811 Nov 13, 2013
Just Think wrote:
There is not now, nor has there ever been, any proof that any of the thousands of gods ever worshiped actually existed.
Atheism requires no faith at all.
Correct.

But the faithists? Won't have **that**-- they are under the false cloud that **everything** is faith-based.

It's kinda sad to witness.

"If you could reason with religious people? There would be no religious people." ~~ House

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