Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258484 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#183737 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you say "any proof"?
If there is "proof", how does the quantity of proof matter?
If there is not "proof", how does the lack of any particular quantity matter?
A week or so ago, you and I were having a conversation. I offered my thoughts on a particular topic. You called me a liar.

I fail to see how I can have a conversation with you when you believe that an individual's thoughts are lies.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183738 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Christianity, which teaches that man is worthless and dependent - that he has no meaning or purpose except in terms of submitting to and worshiping a god - is also toxic to that.
spudgun wrote:
I remember it well. Religion brainwashes you to believe you are a worthless POS unless you submit to the teachings of a saviour person Jesus/Muhammed/etc. It teaches we are all sinners due to the fall of man, from the fable of adam and eve disobeying God in the garden of Eden. You endlessly repeat you lack of self worth in prayer and in church, over and over. As the story goes all humans are worthless and destined for eternal fire unless they believe in Jesus, eat his flesh at mass in the form of a wafer, pray fervently, pay tithes. That last bit most important of all! I wonder why? Then you as one of the lucky few, the elect, will enjoy the company of angels singing eternal praises to Gawd in heaven or if Muslim the sensual pleasures of 72 virgins in paradise. Comforted in the knowledge that the 99% in hell or purgatory have willingly chosen their eternal punishment. So kind, so loving, this "God". You could imagine that it was just made up by priests to scare the living daylights out of people!
This is the self-loathing and misanthropy that I believe Bongo was referring to earlier when he said, "Now if I could just make this deep self loathing and misanthropy I have go away." I think that he may have avoided falling into the trap, but many others were not as lucky, and do think in those terms.

It's related to the teaching that manifests as criticizing the failure to fall to one's knees to and beg forgiveness in acknowledgement of that worthlessness in terms of ego, rebellion, and pride that we have also seen here recently.

I can't see how any of that serves us as people, and consider it one of over a dozen very bad ideas offered to those receiving a Christian education.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183739 Nov 13, 2013
Happy Lesbo wrote:
<quoted text>
.. you must reduce your position to agnosticism or you're taking a leap of faith ..
.. think about it ..
To this crowd, an agnostic is an atheist, or...

It's impossible to be an agnostic.

"Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God" (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor)

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183740 Nov 13, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
A week or so ago, you and I were having a conversation. I offered my thoughts on a particular topic. You called me a liar.
I fail to see how I can have a conversation with you when you believe that an individual's thoughts are lies.
I don't recall the particular conversation you reference, but if I falsely accused you, I am sorry.

Please excuse my abruptness.





Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183741 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
This is the self-loathing and misanthropy that I believe Bongo was referring to earlier when he said, "Now if I could just make this deep self loathing and misanthropy I have go away." I think that he may have avoided falling into the trap, but many others were not as lucky, and do think in those terms.
It's related to the teaching that manifests as criticizing the failure to fall to one's knees to and beg forgiveness in acknowledgement of that worthlessness in terms of ego, rebellion, and pride that we have also seen here recently.
I can't see how any of that serves us as people, and consider it one of over a dozen very bad ideas offered to those receiving a Christian education.
If self-loathing is justified, shouldn't I loathe myself?

I have done lots of loath-worthy things.

Don't I deserve self-loathing?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183742 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
Hi IANS, I can see you have debated theists here for a while. I have a question. Do most Christians you have debated with think they are "saved", or do they think merely they have upped their chances of being saved? Cheers
When I have asked, they tell me that they are quite certain that they are saved, although many will question the salvation of other Christians. You might find this of interest in that regard:

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183743 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I have done lots of loath-worthy things.
Such as what? feel free to share.

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#183744 Nov 13, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
I garnish the hope of hearing something that will rationally make sense about the origins of life and the rise of man. But there only seems to be black and white, the grey is considered crazy.
I believe nothing but don't fall into the bible god or the pure naturally causes. But I'm not crazy, I just have no evidence to make any claims. I think something is out there though, just not sure what it is.
That is a most rational view, and one shared by many theists and deists, including myself. But Topix atheists have to portray them as mindless idiots to bolster their egos. This gets in the way of rational discussion.

As you should see I don't have a blind faith goddidit acceptance. I analyze life from a physical and technical angle. This began a long time ago when I discovered I can channel telluric currents on the macro scale just like I can wire a circuit board. You can develop a religious experience from them. These invisible forces were the spirits and gods that turned into the concept of one supreme power source. But from there came the understanding you have the "natural" flow of these forces, and the perhaps mistaken artificial flows tapping into this greater universal source that can interfere with the natural flows. The power of a god without an understanding of the greater construct. That is an issue man has faced for a long time.

Our intelligence is inherited, but our wisdom is limited. We can run amok at times.

A very simple analysis of the situation. EM exists everywhere. Different materials exchange the energy of it to differing degrees. We can harness it to do some interesting things. We use water, carbon, salts, and various materials you find laying about combined with that universal energy source.. We are made of water, carbon, salts, and various materials laying about combined with that universal energy source. One can assume we are manifesting the will of something greater than us just like we use those materials to manifest our collective will. It really isn't that much of a stretch. You have those that wish to assume we arose by accident and learned to do that by accident.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183745 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
When I have asked, they tell me that they are quite certain that they are saved, although many will question the salvation of other Christians. You might find this of interest in that regard:
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T0N0LOR...
If someone wants to be saved, their first step would be to get out of Christianity.

They teach God loves mankind, right?

Their holy word teaches "love keeps no accounting of wrongs", right?

Then they teach that God keeps such a powerful accounting of wrongs, he had to sacrifice his only Son to clear the account.

And if you do not clear that account, your penalty is the most suffering that can be imagined, right?

Because of the account of wrongs that is not kept.

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#183746 Nov 13, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Dave, what is your avatar? Is it to support the remake of the Three Stooges?
<quoted text>
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk

That is me when I was a tender young atheist so many years ago, Would be hard to recognize me now.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183747 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
When I have asked, they tell me that they are quite certain that they are saved, although many will question the salvation of other Christians.
I thought as much. I find it quite arrogant for Christians to assume they are saved, esp. when they believe in absolute assurance, regardless of their actions. Maybe this explains why fundies are so objectionable, because they are unafraid of losing their "salvation".
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183748 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
To this crowd, an agnostic is an atheist, or...
It's impossible to be an agnostic.
You are an agnostic atheist towards all other gods and religions.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183749 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick, a good place to start is to ask yourself WHY you believe what you believe. To question yourself, as well as others. And to form beliefs only on the basis of real evidence.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183750 Nov 13, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
I am happy. It would be ungrateful of me to be otherwise given the advantages and opportunities I was born into. I was born at an excellent time in an excellent place to good parents with the health, temperament, and aptitude necessary to take advantage of those opportunities, and I did. I don't really understand your resentment at who I am. Weren't you also born into mid-twentieth century America with those same advantages and opportunities? If so, you should be happy, too, not resentful. I don't resent you.
Buck Crick wrote:
You received those benefits because of faith.
I disagree - unless you are still calling reason, and compassion faith, in which case it will be difficult to understand one another. It was reason and compassion that led to the American Constitution, not religious faith.
Buck Crick wrote:
You were born in a nation conceived on the faith that men are created equal by a creator, and that creator gave an endowment to you.
Those are just empty words. Such a belief is irrelevant to the philosophy of Americanism, by which I mean limited, divided and transparent government, the rule of law, egalitarianism, church-state separation and secular government, guaranteed personal liberties, justice, democracy, and the like.

Christianity is antithetical to all of that. The biblical model of governance the biblical model is authoritarian and paternalistic: god over man, king over subject, master over slave, husband over wife, parent over child, and man over the beasts.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183751 Nov 13, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
..I discovered I can channel telluric currents on the macro scale ..
So basically, you are telling us you are batshit crazy?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183752 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
The endowment, they reasoned, was the special-ness that entitles you to pursuit of the things you pursued.
You might not agree with their reasoning, but that was their reasoning, and it was "reason".
Once again, Christianity is antithetical to that. It teaches the opposite: that we are loathsome creatures born fit for hell save for the grace of its god.

Christianity also has little use for reason:

[1] He said, "Go and tell this people: "'Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.”- Isaiah 6:9

[2] Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed." - Isaiah 6:10

[3] For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate." - 1 Corinthians 1:19 The bible actually teaches nothing. It is the church that teaches, and its has been famously anti-intellectual through the ages.

This is the position of the church in the Middle Ages:

[4] "Since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think." - St Augustine of Hippo

[5] "Ignorance is the mother of piety" - Pope Gregory I

And here is the father of Protestantism approximately a millennium later teaching the same thing:

[6] Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense & understanding. Whatever it sees must be put out of sight with nothing but the word of god remaining in view.- To be a christian, you must pluck out the eye of reason." - Martin Luther

The credit for the triumph of America goes not to Christianity, but to the vision of secular humanists, with emphasis on both the secularism and humanism. Christianity promotes the opposite.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183753 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Such as what? feel free to share.
Well, where to start.

At U. of Alabama, I boned a guy's girlfriend through the passenger window of his car while he was passed-out behind the wheel.

I hit Roscoe Davis with my fist and detached both his retinas with one lick.

In prison, I stuck a toothbrush up a guy's ass then made him swallow it.

I was being scouted by 2 NFL teams and was caught on camera smoking a cigarette in the huddle.

I tested positive for crack cocaine 3 times by 'Bama coaching staff.

That gives you a flavor for it.

I held back the bad stuff.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#183754 Nov 13, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall the particular conversation you reference, but if I falsely accused you, I am sorry.
Please excuse my abruptness.
Thanks for the apology. Much appreciated.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183755 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
You are an agnostic atheist towards all other gods and religions.
Nobody can be an "agnostic atheist".

Self-contradictory terms.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183756 Nov 13, 2013
spudgun wrote:
Buck Crick, a good place to start is to ask yourself WHY you believe what you believe. To question yourself, as well as others. And to form beliefs only on the basis of real evidence.
Way ahead of you, StudBun.

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