Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 239497 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#183478 Nov 11, 2013
oneear69 wrote:
<quoted text>China,northern Europe,Canada, Britain, Australia,have all seen drastic drops in organized religions some as much as 80%, but most still consider themselves believers.Perhaps globally, there is only about 5% true Atheists, in the sense we believe in no god or an afterlife.Sadly over 60% of Americans actually believe in the bible the way it is written, accept it as an actual historical reference.As do the jews and muslims,and these people have nuclear bombs and other weapons of mass destruction.And this is what scares me the most.
Go look at the Scandinavian countries. Their populations are mostly atheist--some as high as 80% or so.

Then compare their literacy rates, their post-graduation rates, their unemployment rates, the level of individual health care, and the average per-person incomes.

Compare these to religious countries like Iran or the USA.

The religions countries do not look very good, compared to the mostly atheist ones.

Hmmmm..

Is it correlation?

I think what is really happening is this: these countries are more and better **educated** first and foremost.

And it **has** been shown that the better a person's education is? The more likely they are to become an atheist.

So it's not that these countries became **atheists** and then got really good at being civilized.

Rather the opposite: as these countries became more **civilized**, including better educations and more literacy?

It just naturally followed that they would put away childish (and barbaric) hobbies like **religion**.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183479 Nov 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
You are under belief that we are to be sheep and mindless slaves to that power ...
I think you have me confused with a Christian. I am "under belief" that no such power exists.
Dave Nelson wrote:
You have your mind closed a lot more than I do as to what reality and existence is.
Would you please define what you mean by an open mind, and why you think that mine doesn't qualify?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183480 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
From a pragmatic standpoint, the burden lies with whomever it is that wants to change minds. For whatever reason, the American population seems to be transforming into an irreligious one. Christians will be a minority by or before 2029 if the nation continues in its present trajectory. If you're indifferent about what others believe or are satisfied with the status quo, you have no burden.
People that are satisfied with the freedom to worship whatever they choose, even if they're the last one, have no burden. It's only the people that want to keep America Christian that have any burden - you know, the people that want to impose their faith onto the law books and textbooks, and to keep their god on the money and in the Pledge.
Not true in the slightest.

You are advocating a position as the preferred course.

As an advocate, you assume a burden no different than that assumed by an alternative point of view, and it has nothing to do with the status quo.

Not to mention that your characterization of "status quo" is deformed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183481 Nov 11, 2013
spudgun wrote:
Hi IANS, re. the Christian code. Jesus instruction to tell his solar cult followers to hate their family, seems like a cult leader tactic. He wanted to separate the followers from their friends and family, so they can be surrounded by cult members only.
Agreed. Christianity meets several of the criteria for cults. From http://www.csj.org/infoserv_cult101/checklis....

• Subservience to the leader or group requires members to cut ties with family and friends.

• The group regards its belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.

• Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.

• Mind-altering practices (such as meditation, chanting, etc) serve to suppress doubts.

• The leadership dictates, sometimes in great detail, how members should think, act, and feel.

• The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.

• The leadership induces feelings of shame and/or guilt in order to influence and/or control members. Often, this is done through peer pressure and subtle forms of persuasion.

• The group is preoccupied with bringing in new members.

• The group is preoccupied with making money.

• Members are encouraged or required to live and/or socialize only with other group members.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#183482 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for proving me right.
You see, the reason nobody has come over to check out your claim is - nobody cares.
Try to think of an apples-to-apples analogy.
Or,... try to think, in other words. Moron.
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/bering-in...

Just ran across that article, Buck. Interesting read.

Judged:

11

11

9

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183483 Nov 11, 2013
spudgun wrote:
The virtue of meekness is part of the religious mindset of "submission". So that followers can be easily led and deceived by a shepherd. By being submissive and ignorant the acolyte can become zombie like and un-thinking and easily led around, confused and fleeced for personal gain.
Agree again.

The entire Sermon on the Mount is slave ethics - a set of instructions from the ruling class to the peasant class on how to think and behave as they are being exploited and discriminated against. Let's look:

Blessed, supposedly, are the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the meek, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart and the peacemakers. I find nothing wise or comforting in admonitions to be poor of spirit or meek. Be robust of spirit and as assertive as the situation requires. Meekness is not a virtue. Humility, perhaps, but not meekness. That's just a poverty of spirit.

Who wants you to accept being dispirited, tolerating grief, not asserting yourself, honest to them, forgiving of them and pacifistic with them? Who benefits if, when I punch you, you don't retaliate, defend yourself or even walk away? The bosses, who don't want you tolerating injustice rather than seeking justice. Put that cheek right out there again, will ya? No, not quite like that - turn it a little more. Great. Thanks ...[Whack!]

Let's look at that cheek business a little closer. What kind of bad advice is this? The kind masters give slaves. Obviously, Christian morality is really all about being made docile and compliant - submissive. Doesn't sticking your face out there really incite further violence as I suggested? Even if you weren't going to use them, putting up your fists says, "don't hit me again." Jutting your cheek out there says the opposite.

People who care about you, like you father and mother, teach you how to defend yourself when necessary, to try to negotiate an understanding when possible, or walk away. Who else but the rich and powerful would teach people who have been hit in the cheek to show the other cheek and take a second blow?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183484 Nov 11, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. Several European countries have reached an atheist population in excess of 60% or more.
Amazing.
What is even more amazing? These mostly-atheist countries have the lowest per-person crime rates, the highest average income, universal health care, among the highest literacy rates, most of their children go on to post-graduate degrees, etc, etc, etc.
In short?
These countries appear to be ... more civilized...
... this is **especially** true when comparing them with mostly **religious** countries, like Iraq, Iran and the USA.
Yes-- the USA is right up there with the pestholes of Iraq and Iran.
Why?
Due to the overwhelming number of religious people trying to force their ugly religious beliefs onto **everyone**-- with violence if need be.
More Than 9 in 10 Americans Continue to Believe in God
by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- "More than 9 in 10 Americans still say "yes" when asked the basic question "Do you believe in God?"; this is down only slightly from the 1940s, when Gallup first asked this question."

Judged:

10

10

10

Reply »
Report Abuse Judge it!

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#183485 Nov 11, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Go look at the Scandinavian countries. Their populations are mostly atheist--some as high as 80% or so.
Then compare their literacy rates, their post-graduation rates, their unemployment rates, the level of individual health care, and the average per-person incomes.
Compare these to religious countries like Iran or the USA.
The religions countries do not look very good, compared to the mostly atheist ones.
Hmmmm..
Is it correlation?
I think what is really happening is this: these countries are more and better **educated** first and foremost.
And it **has** been shown that the better a person's education is? The more likely they are to become an atheist.
So it's not that these countries became **atheists** and then got really good at being civilized.
Rather the opposite: as these countries became more **civilized**, including better educations and more literacy?
It just naturally followed that they would put away childish (and barbaric) hobbies like **religion**.
I agree my friend,very much so. Education is the key, which is why some like the Taliban, orthodox jews, orthodox christians, ban any kind of relevant education. Shared knowledge and a relevant education is key to any successful society, indeed it is the only thing that will save humanity from itself.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#183486 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you have me confused with a Christian. I am "under belief" that no such power exists.
<quoted text>
Would you please define what you mean by an open mind, and why you think that mine doesn't qualify?
IANS, your under belief is nothing more than reverse thrusters turned on. You are not naturally balanced.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#183487 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Not true in the slightest.
You are advocating a position as the preferred course.
As an advocate, you assume a burden no different than that assumed by an alternative point of view, and it has nothing to do with the status quo.
Not to mention that your characterization of "status quo" is deformed.
I'm about fed up with this particular theist malformation of logic.

Let me ask you this: do you believe in fairies, ogres, and leprechauns?

If you say "no", you've made an affirmation - let's see you prove it.

That's a load of bollocks, and you know it.

Arse-backwards, and you know it.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183488 Nov 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I DO know, the pol was taken HERE in the U.S in 2012, and last year saw an increase of 15% over the year before. 20% of us and growing everyday.
These polls only sample .02% of the US population. Accuracy is in question.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183489 Nov 11, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course!
You lack the education to appreciate what I am trying to tell you.
It is quite sad, that you are so illiterate with regards to **all** things science.
Throw me a curve ball and put in some truth.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183490 Nov 11, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. Several European countries have reached an atheist population in excess of 60% or more.
Amazing.
What is even more amazing? These mostly-atheist countries have the lowest per-person crime rates, the highest average income, universal health care, among the highest literacy rates, most of their children go on to post-graduate degrees, etc, etc, etc.
In short?
These countries appear to be ... more civilized...
... this is **especially** true when comparing them with mostly **religious** countries, like Iraq, Iran and the USA.
Yes-- the USA is right up there with the pestholes of Iraq and Iran.
Why?
Due to the overwhelming number of religious people trying to force their ugly religious beliefs onto **everyone**-- with violence if need be.
I also believe there has been an exodus from faith in Europe. I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about European Churches or Europe in general. It would be the last place in earth I would go and visit. If I did I would make the focal point of my trip visiting our war graves.

They can have their cold dark dingy castles and their godlessness. I must admit France was nice enough to give us lady liberty.

Since: Sep 10

United States

#183491 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Your source has succumbed to revisionism. That is not the accepted academic meaning of the term.
Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not (Academic American Encyclopedia).
Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason (Random House Encyclopedia-1977).
Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God.(Oxford Companion to Philosophy-1995).
Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor-1996).
Atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist (The World Book Encyclopedia-1991).
Atheism, commonly speaking, is the denial of God. Theism (from the Greek theos, God) is belief in or conceptualization of God, atheism is the rejection of such belief or conceptualization.In the ancient world atheism was rarely a clearly formulated position (Encyclopedia Americana-1990).
Atheism, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswerable, for the atheist, the non-existence of god is a certainty (The New Encyclopedia Britannia-1993).
According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no god…(rejects eccentric definitions of the word)(The Encyclopedia of Philosophy-1967).
Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good (Encyclopedia of Religion-1987).
Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power. Atheism has not often been seriously maintained at any period of civilized thought (Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).
Atheism denies the existence of deity (Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia-Vol I).
You made your point.

It doesn't sell.

Let's move on, OK?
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183492 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Agree again.
The entire Sermon on the Mount is slave ethics - a set of instructions from the ruling class to the peasant class on how to think and behave as they are being exploited and discriminated against. Let's look:
Blessed, supposedly, are the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the meek, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart and the peacemakers. I find nothing wise or comforting in admonitions to be poor of spirit or meek. Be robust of spirit and as assertive as the situation requires. Meekness is not a virtue. Humility, perhaps, but not meekness. That's just a poverty of spirit.
Who wants you to accept being dispirited, tolerating grief, not asserting yourself, honest to them, forgiving of them and pacifistic with them? Who benefits if, when I punch you, you don't retaliate, defend yourself or even walk away? The bosses, who don't want you tolerating injustice rather than seeking justice. Put that cheek right out there again, will ya? No, not quite like that - turn it a little more. Great. Thanks ...[Whack!]
Let's look at that cheek business a little closer. What kind of bad advice is this? The kind masters give slaves. Obviously, Christian morality is really all about being made docile and compliant - submissive. Doesn't sticking your face out there really incite further violence as I suggested? Even if you weren't going to use them, putting up your fists says, "don't hit me again." Jutting your cheek out there says the opposite.
People who care about you, like you father and mother, teach you how to defend yourself when necessary, to try to negotiate an understanding when possible, or walk away. Who else but the rich and powerful would teach people who have been hit in the cheek to show the other cheek and take a second blow?
In the early days of American History conflicts were routinely resolved by killing your opponent. It looks like we as a nation have gone back to our roots. When the safest and appropriate action to take is walk away from a potential violent conflict.

That advice can even be applied in abusive relationships. Get out of the violence situation at all cost and don’t add to it. It’s not easy to do but it’s the most wisest course one can make.

Often times people don’t take into account the cost of what they’re going to do. And that cost can be very high. Conflict resolution should be taught in every school in America. There’s wisdom in turning the other cheek.

Of course a man or woman has the right to defend themselves. But that defense can turn deadly so avoidance is always the best choice.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#183493 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Agree again.
The entire Sermon on the Mount is slave ethics - a set of instructions from the ruling class to the peasant class on how to think and behave as they are being exploited and discriminated against. Let's look:
Blessed, supposedly, are the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the meek, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart and the peacemakers. I find nothing wise or comforting in admonitions to be poor of spirit or meek. Be robust of spirit and as assertive as the situation requires. Meekness is not a virtue. Humility, perhaps, but not meekness. That's just a poverty of spirit.
Who wants you to accept being dispirited, tolerating grief, not asserting yourself, honest to them, forgiving of them and pacifistic with them? Who benefits if, when I punch you, you don't retaliate, defend yourself or even walk away? The bosses, who don't want you tolerating injustice rather than seeking justice. Put that cheek right out there again, will ya? No, not quite like that - turn it a little more. Great. Thanks ...[Whack!]
Let's look at that cheek business a little closer. What kind of bad advice is this? The kind masters give slaves. Obviously, Christian morality is really all about being made docile and compliant - submissive. Doesn't sticking your face out there really incite further violence as I suggested? Even if you weren't going to use them, putting up your fists says, "don't hit me again." Jutting your cheek out there says the opposite.
People who care about you, like you father and mother, teach you how to defend yourself when necessary, to try to negotiate an understanding when possible, or walk away. Who else but the rich and powerful would teach people who have been hit in the cheek to show the other cheek and take a second blow?
Take a extended tour in some our worst prisons. You’ll see the opposite of the sermon on the Mount.

Since: Sep 10

United States

#183494 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
More Than 9 in 10 Americans Continue to Believe in God
by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- "More than 9 in 10 Americans still say "yes" when asked the basic question "Do you believe in God?"; this is down only slightly from the 1940s, when Gallup first asked this question."
They also believe there's a devil.

Please tell me you're not one of them.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#183495 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I also believe there has been an exodus from faith in Europe. I don’t have a lot of nice things to say about European Churches or Europe in general. It would be the last place in earth I would go and visit. If I did I would make the focal point of my trip visiting our war graves.
They can have their cold dark dingy castles and their godlessness. I must admit France was nice enough to give us lady liberty.
Where does it matter the geographical place one is born, or one lives. are we not all of the same human species, living on the only planet to sustain the diversity of life as we know it. Is it not time mankind get over our piety differences and understand we have more in common than different. My friend, I would like to travel around the world on my bike, to experience the beauty and diversity of the life on our planet and other cultures , without fear of being hated, and despised for what I look like or where I'm from, how I think.I could not even travel the USA freely,and I am native American.I see no difference from the teacher,in north America, Europe, Africa, Asia,India,south America the middle east. I see no difference in the way we express our love for family and community.Yet we still live in fear of each other.Why ?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#183496 Nov 11, 2013
“Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there-on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.

It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.”
&#8213; Carl Sagan, Pale Blue Dot
:
EdSed

Wishaw, UK

#183497 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
More Than 9 in 10 Americans Continue to Believe in God
by Frank Newport
PRINCETON, NJ -- "More than 9 in 10 Americans still say "yes" when asked the basic question "Do you believe in God?"; this is down only slightly from the 1940s, when Gallup first asked this question."
Yes, but Pew figures generally seem to suggest greater levels of superstition than the Gallop ones and even the Pew survey found 'decreasing religiosity'. I'd say that means decreasing levels of superstitious beliefs in gods. Generally, I think there are signs of improvement in the USA.

Many of those who still profess belief in god(s) now seem to subscribe to an amorphous, vague, initial 'creator'. Some of these 'nones' and agnostics don't even believe in an interventionist entity, much less one that is Abrahamic. Even LCNLin doesn't claim to be religious anymore.

I think that is the way it often goes. First, obviously silly Abrahamic gods and these ones...
godchecker.com
are rejected. Then increasing numbers realise there's no evidence of an interventionist god of any description or definition. Then, it is a small step to reality.

It took many years to overcome the acceptability of slavery in parts of the USA. Women's rights, anti-gay prejudice, etc, it all took time to overcome. I think religion is the last major bastion of superstition and we're looking at a gradual process of abandonment of it, not an event.

Established deities like the Abrahamic god(s) and its associated religions seem to be the ones losing out to the 'nones' and rationalists.

Religion = superstition

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

NCAA Basketball Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
What role do you think humans play in global wa... (Sep '14) 36 min OzRitz 5,649
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 2 hr shinningelectr0n 1,234,749
News Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision (Jan '08) 3 hr cpeter1313 309,954
News Former UConn Player Pleads Guilty -- Courant.com (Oct '07) 7 hr tom wingo 22
News Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex ma... (Aug '10) 20 hr Pietro Armando 201,811
News UCLA FOOTBALL NOTEBOOK: Neuheisel says Prince w... (Sep '10) May 27 tom wingo 29,767
How to Recover Deleted or lost Contacts from Sa... May 25 Timotion 7
More from around the web