Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 255496 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183447 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Except, of course, when you're telling us that we're not atheists.
<quoted text>
Some even have more than one meaning.
<quoted text>
That is discovered by observing how people use the word, not by dictatorial sources trying to control that usage.
Speaking of word meanings, are you aware of the difference between the words "descriptive" and "prescriptive" in the context of lexicography? If not, allow me: Descriptive lexicography refers to the creating dictionaries according to how people actually write and speak, whereas prescriptive lexicography refers to trying to limit people's usage to conform to that of some private agenda.
<quoted text>
I am an atheist because having rejected all god claims, I live without theism. I'm also an aleprechaunist and an avampirist, but the issue doesn't come up as often given the relatively small number of leprechaunists and an vampirists compared to theists.
Of course the rejection of god claims is rational. There is no other rational position possible until compelling evidence for a god is produced. Without that, there is no rebuttal to atheism.
I didn't tell anybody they are not anything.

I did tell somebody that if they choose a term for themselves, they should know what it means. I also told them that if what they believe does not fit the meaning of a particular term, instead of attempting to change the meaning of the term, they should choose a different term, preferably one that fits.

This is why the meaning of words is important - because your misunderstanding of a term just then caused you to mischaracterize the debate surrounding it.

"Atheism" is not subject to rebuttal, nor is theism.

Atheism and theism are not claims. They are beliefs, which means they are a conclusion held by the experiencer which supercedes what is knowable.

On the other hand, if a factual claim is made that no god exists, it is subject to rebuttal. The belief that no god exists is not.



Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183448 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>

“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte
Ms. Marcotte is an idiot.

Saying "atheism is just another kind of faith", though entirely true, is not an admission that taking claims on faith is silly or misguided.

It is simply a rejection of the attempt to ascribe to the atheist claim the superiority of rationality, and assign "faith" as a weak appeal of the theist.

You appeal to many idiots for authority, I find.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183449 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Admit?
Eternal life could very easily be unbearable. Imagine a billion years have passed, and there are a billion billion more ahead. Even then, you wouldn't have put a dent in your sentence.
Imagine being so bored that it's painful, wanting out, and there being no way. If you allow yourself to do that, you will likely be filled with dread. If science were to reveal that that were the case, we'd need to invent a religion that promised the hope of eternal sleep.
If you found that you had already lived thousands of years in different earthly ages, or non-earthly ones, would you want to die right now?

I wouldn't. I'd want to see what's next.

Hell, I would expect it to be an improvement.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183450 Nov 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>"The evidence for werewolves is EXACTLY the same as for God."
YOU, also can't prove that I don't have an invisible fire breathing dragon living in my garage. Care to try?
First, your statement is false.

Second, nobody cares about your claim of a fire-breathing dragon.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#183451 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't tell anybody they are not anything.
I did tell somebody that if they choose a term for themselves, they should know what it means. I also told them that if what they believe does not fit the meaning of a particular term, instead of attempting to change the meaning of the term, they should choose a different term, preferably one that fits.
This is why the meaning of words is important - because your misunderstanding of a term just then caused you to mischaracterize the debate surrounding it.
"Atheism" is not subject to rebuttal, nor is theism.
Atheism and theism are not claims. They are beliefs, which means they are a conclusion held by the experiencer which supercedes what is knowable.
On the other hand, if a factual claim is made that no god exists, it is subject to rebuttal. The belief that no god exists is not.
You still seem to have the wrong idea of atheism, you are falling for the usual of relating it to your personal experience of theism, however whereas theism is a belief, atheism is a non belief. Note that modifier – non.

Perhaps a stance that you are unable to comprehend, who knows? That of course would explain why you argue that atheism is a belief

As I have said before atheism is as much belief as not collecting stamps is a hobby

The claim that no gods exist can only be rebutted by providing evidence to the contrary. Up to now, in several thousand years of god worship, no such evidence has been forthcoming. But there are people still waiting so don’t give up hope just yet.
JCa

Stockholm, Sweden

#183452 Nov 11, 2013
Only lies require belief, and it goes for all lies, not just religious lies.

Check this out: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php...
LCNLin

United States

#183453 Nov 11, 2013
"Let me repost something I just left on another thread on exactly that...... "......

self-centered seems to define atheism on a thread.

Atheist + thought = agnostic

Since: Sep 08

Rocky Ford, CO

#183454 Nov 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You still seem to have the wrong idea of atheism, you are falling for the usual of relating it to your personal experience of theism, however whereas theism is a belief, atheism is a non belief. Note that modifier – non.
Perhaps a stance that you are unable to comprehend, who knows? That of course would explain why you argue that atheism is a belief
As I have said before atheism is as much belief as not collecting stamps is a hobby
The claim that no gods exist can only be rebutted by providing evidence to the contrary. Up to now, in several thousand years of god worship, no such evidence has been forthcoming. But there are people still waiting so don’t give up hope just yet.
You haven't a clue as to what atheism is. What you preach it is came in pre-packaged form for you to preach against. You are a disaffected person that got caught up in a cult. You are too emotional and irrational to realize it.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183455 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You're another alumnus of Jesus, Inc, and you manifest that same darkness.
It's really terrible what Christianity does to so many people's views of their fellow man, even in many of those who abandon it. Do you abhor it like Buck Crick, or just consider it fraudulent?
Either way, it's left its mark on your psyche as well, which is why to my way of reckoning, religion is the poison you speak of. By way of contrast to you and Buck Crick, I consider mankind to be the masterpiece of evolution, am exceedingly proud to be a part of it, and am very hopeful about the future.
As one example of that, as that church that Buck Crick abhors fades from view, I see fewer people living with that Christian darkness in them. I predict that religion will be remembered as the phase of man's evolution that connected the time when he was first capable of wondering about the world and his place in it to the time when he answered those questions to his satisfaction
Even Billy Graham is hoping for a new awakening.

I suspect it will not take the form Christians think.

Nor the form you think. At least I hope not.

The previous awakening was to knowledge: The ego said, "I know".

The next will be: "No, I do not".
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#183456 Nov 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>And you, once more, are avoiding the issue.
BTW we Atheists are growing very rapidly. A poll taken last year finds us at 20% up 15% from a year ago. WOW, up 15% in just a year, at this rate we'll be up to 50% in just a few years. Cool eh!!!
I don’t doubt that Atheist and Agnostics have increased in numbers. Just how much I really don’t know. Polls have been taken on a very small section of the population. Some places like Europe may have seen the greatest increases.
LCNLin

United States

#183457 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus was not really a moral exemplar. Let me repost something I just left on another thread on exactly that:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
That wasn't original, and it has been repeated often.
Jehovah teaches that if somebody doesn't worship you, that it is infinitely good to keep them alive forever just to torture them. Do you believe that Jesus and Jehovah are two facets of the same agent?
<quoted text>
That's also not original. Buddha also taught humility and service, as did Confucius.
<quoted text>
None of that was original, either, and depending what you mean by wealth, power and pride, it may not be good advice. The unprincipled pursuit of excessive wealth and power are immoral, but working to accumulate enough wealth and power to provide for the needs and reasonable wants of the self, family and community are not. Vanity and conceit are not virtues, but self-respect is.
<quoted text>
That part probably wasn't original either. My guess is that the Jews called their god father as well. Either way, do you consider that a great moral contribution?
My point is that Jesus is called a great moral pillar and ethical genius, but I can't the evidence for that. He seems to have repeated a few good ideas and come up with a few of his own of little or no value.
Where are his words about justice, courage, loyalty, industry, self-discipline, democracy, and freedom, for example? Can you be a moral genius without addressing those matters?
He talks about love, but the examples are deformed, being primarily about man's love of the god, which is not really love, since love is defined by what done for the object of love, and by the god's love of man, which is defined in terms of blood sacrifice and torture.
The admonition to hate family and join Jesus seems like poorly chosen words at best, and bad advice if taken literally. Likewise with turning the other cheek. Doesn't that invite further violence if taken literally? Why is meekness a virtue?
Apart from the Golden Rule, which Jesus borrowed from his predecessors, The Christian moral code seems deficient in places and defective in others to me. Do you disagree?
"Let me repost something I just left on another thread on exactly that...... "......

self-centered seems to define atheism on a thread.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#183458 Nov 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You haven't a clue as to what atheism is. What you preach it is came in pre-packaged form for you to preach against. You are a disaffected person that got caught up in a cult. You are too emotional and irrational to realize it.
I don’t preach anything, I simply respond to godbot BS with facts. You don’t like facts, that’s not my problem but yours.

You are a fine one to accuse people of cult membership – how’s the daveswold cult of moronic idiots getting on?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183459 Nov 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
You still seem to have the wrong idea of atheism, you are falling for the usual of relating it to your personal experience of theism, however whereas theism is a belief, atheism is a non belief. Note that modifier – non.
Perhaps a stance that you are unable to comprehend, who knows? That of course would explain why you argue that atheism is a belief
As I have said before atheism is as much belief as not collecting stamps is a hobby
The claim that no gods exist can only be rebutted by providing evidence to the contrary. Up to now, in several thousand years of god worship, no such evidence has been forthcoming. But there are people still waiting so don’t give up hope just yet.
Your ability to be wrong is impressive.

Atheism IS a belief.

If you have no belief, you'll have to adopt a different term, or continue in error.

Given your history, I predict you will choose error.

LCNLin

United States

#183460 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Great rebuttal. Here I stand, humbled by your compelling argument.
Incidentally, atheism doesn't require proof because it is not an assertion of fact. It is an opinion, namely, that I don't accept any god claims unsupported by evidence, which is all of them so far. If you want to refute that, you'll need to produce a god.
What the Theory of Evolution proves is that all creation myths including those in Genesis are false.
...As Richard Dawkins discovered when he left atheism for agnostic beliefs ...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#183461 Nov 11, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
"Let me repost something I just left on another thread on exactly that...... "......
self-centered seems to define atheism on a thread.
Atheist + thought = agnostic
Your ignorance is astounding…Even by the high standards if ignorance needed for by your cult.

LCNLin + godbotism = ignorance,

You and dave should get together – they say synergy is more than the individual parts and you both really need any help you can get.
blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#183462 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
First, your statement is false.
Second, nobody cares about your claim of a fire-breathing dragon.
It's only false if you're that gullible to believe either of these things exist. So I take it you ARE that gullible and believe one or the other or maybe both exist. Numbnuts!!!

Oh, I'm hurt, you don't believe in Igor, my pet dragon. Come over to my garage and I'll have him blow fire up yer ass, maybe then you'll believe. Assclown!!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#183463 Nov 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>

Note that modifier – non.
There is no such modifier in the word.

The etymology of the word used the prefix "a" as "no", and attached it to the root "theos" as "god".

"atheos" - no god.

"Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not."

(Academic American Encyclopedia).

blacklagoon

Hyde Park, MA

#183464 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t doubt that Atheist and Agnostics have increased in numbers. Just how much I really don’t know. Polls have been taken on a very small section of the population. Some places like Europe may have seen the greatest increases.
I DO know, the pol was taken HERE in the U.S in 2012, and last year saw an increase of 15% over the year before. 20% of us and growing everyday.
LCNLin

United States

#183465 Nov 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>

I

don’t preach anything,

I

simply respond to godbot BS with facts. You don’t like facts, that’s not my problem but yours.
You are a fine one to accuse people of cult membership – how’s the daveswold cult of moronic idiots getting on?
Atheism, smug and centered on the "I".

Moves on to "name calling" and the "straw-man fallacy"

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#183466 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ability to be wrong is impressive.
Atheism IS a belief.
If you have no belief, you'll have to adopt a different term, or continue in error.
Given your history, I predict you will choose error.
Atheism noun - disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.
From the Oxford Dictionaries website

Note dis and note lack – sorry if the national/international institution that helps define the English language does not agree with you but that’s just tough. Live with it.

So you believe that a person who has no belief in your god is in error?

Your predictions are about as good and any that a godbot can offer – ie, worthless guesses

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