Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258461 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#183410 Nov 10, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Science has a very good idea of how it works.
I'm so sorry your pathetic and limited "edumacation" did not cover this subject.
That is your loss.
Bob, all I hear from you is blah, blah, blah, blah.

It's all going to the landfill with all the other garbage.

I mean spice it up a bit Bob and throw something in there that’s true.

But the same ole communist propaganda gets old.
Eagle 12

Edwardsville, IL

#183411 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Your shadow boxing Doctor.
Correction, "you're." I have to change it before the Nazi words smiths come in here and sh*t a brick.

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#183412 Nov 10, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
That burden of proof suitcase is worn out for crying out loud. In other words you can't prove there's no God. Just say so Doc.
How many dead people have you seen, Eagle?

How many souls have you seen?

Do you want to know what happens to your dead body when you die in a hospital?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183413 Nov 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
IANS, your secular humanism and faith it will win out IS an organized religion.
Then by your private definition of organized religion, it can be a good thing.

My definition of organized religion involves an actual religion, by which I mean a organized superstition, magical thinking, mythology and the like. That's the kind of thing that prepares people to be manipulated politically and economically, which I consider unhealthy for the individual being manipulated, and when in a sufficiently large fraction of thetotal, everybody else, too.
Dave Nelson wrote:
But you won't get rid of God and Jesus.
Fortunately, that won't be necessary. It will be sufficient that their church become disempowered, and in so doing, limit its relevance to volunteers willing to subject themselves to it. The church can fade like a white dwarf star for centuries thereafter if that's how long it takes for its god to join Zeus and Quetzalcoatl.
Dave Nelson wrote:
They are the very pillars of even your morality.
Really? I'm not aware of even a single moral precept of any value contributed by this so-called "pillar" Jesus. The only wisdom he offered was "borrowed" from earlier moralists, and the ideas that appear original to him were not good ones. Can you offer a counterexample to refute that?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183414 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
I will see your dislike of organized religion, and raise it to abhorrence. I despise organized religion, and have more reason to do so than you. There is a difference, though. I recognize that the present opposition and alternative to the influence of organized religion in our society IS FAR WORSE AND MORE DANGEROUS.
Your world sounds rather bleak to me if you prefer something that you abhor to its alternative, and you're not alone. Many faith based thinkers have shared the same perspective with us in these threads over the years. This deep pessimism about mankind and the future is one of the least appealing aspects of Christian philosophy, which appears to have had a lasting effect on your psyche.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183415 Nov 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Civilization has poisoned itself with its byproducts. The poison is paralyzing the collective mind.
You're another alumnus of Jesus, Inc, and you manifest that same darkness.

It's really terrible what Christianity does to so many people's views of their fellow man, even in many of those who abandon it. Do you abhor it like Buck Crick, or just consider it fraudulent?

Either way, it's left its mark on your psyche as well, which is why to my way of reckoning, religion is the poison you speak of. By way of contrast to you and Buck Crick, I consider mankind to be the masterpiece of evolution, am exceedingly proud to be a part of it, and am very hopeful about the future.

As one example of that, as that church that Buck Crick abhors fades from view, I see fewer people living with that Christian darkness in them. I predict that religion will be remembered as the phase of man's evolution that connected the time when he was first capable of wondering about the world and his place in it to the time when he answered those questions to his satisfaction

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183416 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
You mean like using the IRS to harass conservatives? Using the DOJ to tap the phones of reporters and their parents? Using drones to blast civilians in sovereign countries? You mean like Obama's rendition program which turns POWs over to foreign entities for torturing them?
How's everything going up there? Much better, it seems. I had kind of lost touch with American news until last week, which I spent away from home. The hotel I stayed in had most of its TV service in Spanish, resulting in my watching Fox News for the first time in years. It seems like you've gotten all of your real problems under control in my absence. Congratulations. I say that since most of the news was about health insurance and some place in Libya called Ben Gay (sp.?). It's wonderful that those are the most pressing issues that you have to deal with.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183417 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
.. It's wonderful that those are the most pressing issues that you have to deal with.
Hi IANS, there are much more pressing issues in the world. But the mainstream media Fox News etc does not like to mention them. Its a tactic of diversion, diversion.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#183418 Nov 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
..I'm not aware of even a single moral precept of any value contributed by this so-called "pillar" Jesus. The only wisdom he offered was "borrowed" from earlier moralists, and the ideas that appear original to him were not good ones. Can you offer a counterexample to refute that?
Jesus was the first one in the Bible to mention burning in hell for not believing in him. One minute he was preaching love, the next blasting Pharisees. In other words a typical fundie!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183419 Nov 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
This atheism and secular humanism enslaves man to his circumstances. His position in life. Nothing higher to aspire to. No escape. No self worth.
I aspire to your Christian inspired sense of man's worth and his future. But until I can achieve that, I'll have to settle for the bleak humanist outlook.

So when are we expecting Armageddon?

Speaking of which, I had not realized what a card that Jehovah feller could be until I began channeling him recently. He wants me to let you know that the Stones will be coming to your hometown soon to rock your world. "Boulder CO?" I queried, since you're from Colorado, right Dave? He assured me that that would be, "No problema." He told me that you should invite that chick with the club foot working at the 7-Eleven that you've been eying lately, and guaranteed that he would make her smoking hot. He also said that there would be a giant cookout in the parking lot and asked if you like to barbecue.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#183420 Nov 11, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
<quoted text>
usual atheist 101 dodge
That's it creationist - run from the question "where is the proof of god you are lying about?"

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183421 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
You would rather talk about unicorns. I'm addressing the specific point, and you are absolutely wrong.
__________
Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy (the preeminent reference tool for philosophy):
"Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive belief rather than mere suspension of disbelief."
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
"Atheism’ means the negation of theism, the denial of the existence of God."
Encyclopedia Britannica:
"Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open the question of whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswered or unanswerable; for the atheist, the nonexistence of God is a certainty."
Thanks, but we'll define ourselves.

In the end, it matters little what word you give your rejection of god claims and supernaturalism. If you like the word "agnostic" better, I'm cool with that. Freethinker, skeptic, unbeliever, heathen, pagan, new ager, irreligious - it's all good.

Being without theism, I find the word "atheist" most descriptive of myself, although agnostic is also correct, since like the overwhelming majority of atheists, I do not positively affirm the nonexistence of any gods except those described in logically impossible terms.

“What game?”

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#183422 Nov 11, 2013
spudgun wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus was the first one in the Bible to mention burning in hell for not believing in him. One minute he was preaching love, the next blasting Pharisees. In other words a typical fundie!
He can't see you right now.

It's Ketchup.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183423 Nov 11, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
What people call other people is irrelevant.
Except, of course, when you're telling us that we're not atheists.
Buck Crick wrote:
Words have meaning.
Some even have more than one meaning.
Buck Crick wrote:
If one wants to call himself something, "atheist", for instance, he should know what it means.
That is discovered by observing how people use the word, not by dictatorial sources trying to control that usage.

Speaking of word meanings, are you aware of the difference between the words "descriptive" and "prescriptive" in the context of lexicography? If not, allow me: Descriptive lexicography refers to the creating dictionaries according to how people actually write and speak, whereas prescriptive lexicography refers to trying to limit people's usage to conform to that of some private agenda.
Buck Crick wrote:
Atheism is a belief. Those who assert otherwise are simply trying to relieve themselves of any burden of belief, and establish atheism as a neutral, rational position.
I am an atheist because having rejected all god claims, I live without theism. I'm also an aleprechaunist and an avampirist, but the issue doesn't come up as often given the relatively small number of leprechaunists and an vampirists compared to theists.

Of course the rejection of god claims is rational. There is no other rational position possible until compelling evidence for a god is produced. Without that, there is no rebuttal to atheism.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183424 Nov 11, 2013
Chaumette wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point. That's what I've been saying, what faith is required to not believe?
None, of course.

The religious understand that faith is no longer assumed to be a virtue as it was in the past, when there was no sense of any need to defend the choice. In fact, unbelief needed defending.

Now that's turned around. Today's theist is on the defensive, and is anxious to convince skeptics that rational thought is no better than faith by trying to conflate reason with religious faith. You might have seen Dave Nelson's post referring to secular humanism as organized religion. Same thing.

Which one advertises that the competition is really no better, the leading brand, and Brand X? We should be flattered that the religious recognize that the relationship between themselves and us has changed.

“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183425 Nov 11, 2013
feces for jesus wrote:
<quoted text>
The whole basis of christianity is escaping death; the pipe dream of "eternal life". Quite sad and bordering on pathetic.
Fear of extinction is a large part of it, but there are several other appealing promises made, including protection from harm, freedom from having to think, absolution for horrible past deeds, and more:

BENEFITS OF BEING A CHRISTIAN

[1] Perhaps you are terrified of dying. If so, consider Christianity. There's no need to face the likelihood that death is the end if it troubles you. Just choose to believe otherwise, and all of your fears of dying can be allayed

[2] Or perhaps you are afraid to walk down the street without a omniscient, omnipotent, magic protector watching over you 24/7. Consider Christianity. You can feel like you are being watched over.

[3] Or maybe you're lonely or feeling unloved, and just need to talk to somebody, but there's nobody there. Consider Christianity. You can mutter to the ceiling fan all day with the conviction that it's not just listening to you, but interested in what you have to say.

[4] Or maybe you're tired of being the universe's doormat, and you just need to feel special, as if the whole universe was made for you, knows who you are personally, and really, really, really cares. If so, consider that Christianity might be right for you.

[5] Christianity also offers one the ability to feel morally superior to unbelievers, who they are taught live meaningless, purpose-free lives with no moral foundation.

[6] Or maybe you are so full of hatred that you want those that have hurt you to be punished. As a Christian, you will have the pleasure of knowing that such people will be kept conscious after death and tossed into a lake of fire to suffer. Christianity fulfills any revenge or snuff urges you might have.

[7] Or maybe you hate that childhood ended, when everything was magical, and you believed that chants and curses had power, and that invisible creatures existed. Why give that up if you don't have to?

[8] Or maybe you miss Aunt Esther terribly and you just can't adjust to the reality of her being gone forever. If so, consider Christianity. Oh look up in the clouds! There she is!

[9] Or maybe you're tired of having to think or make tough choices. Christianity will tell you what to believe and what to do. God said it, you believe it, that settles it!

[10] Or maybe you suffer from crushing guilt or shame for the horrible things that you have done to others. No need. Lay it at the cross. Christianity offers forgiveness on demand. All you need do is mumble at that ceiling fan from item [3] and the debt is paid. You don't even need to apologize. How’s that for accountability?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183426 Nov 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
You are in full projection mode. That means you don't "see" a damned thing, just your own thoughts blurting out into the void. You aren't looking at the light of your projections bouncing back to you.
Fortunately, you've transcended that yourself, as this incredibly insightful post attests.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183427 Nov 11, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
None owes justification for their beliefs, unless they state their beliefs are facts.
You owe justification for your beliefs to yourself. Belief without reason is a betrayal of the self - what you might call a sin against the self. The relationship of faith to thought is the same as that of sloth to action and gluttony to self-control. They're all forms of self-neglect.

“When you treat people as they ”

Since: Nov 10

treat you they get offended.

#183428 Nov 11, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Putting aside microbiological evolution. Because I believe it’s pretty obvious as it is very observable.
The belief of evolution of many animals and humans is like unto a wicker basket gondola. It takes a hell of a lot of hot air to keep it going. Which I might say rather pointedly you are supplying.[smiling]
Keep up the good work.
Why put it aside?

I have just commented on another thread to a guy who said (and I quote)–“Can you show me the whitnessed proof of evolution.”

My response was :-

Langkawi bent-toed gecko, witnessed on a generation by generation basis, the nice thing is that a generation is only about a year so very easy to witness and so being studied by science.

Yellow-bellied three-toed skink lizard is currently undergoing evolution alteration from egg laying to live birth and so being studied by science.

Italian Wall Lizards transferred to the island of Pod Mr&#269;aru in the early 1970s jave evolved in various ways, adapting to different diet, larger skull with heavier bite force. The development of cecal valves to assist the digestion of the new diet and so being studied by science.

The genetic evolution of Tibetans to survive in the reduced oxygen at higher altitudes is an adoption that is a recent as 3000 years and so being studied by science

Blue eyes in humans are a genetic abnormality resulting from the mutation of the gene alongside the OCA2 gene between 6 and 10,000 years ago that caused the OCA2 gene to produce less melanin. DNA analyses is currently being studied by science.

Pygmy three-toed sloth, their evolution from full sized sloth to approximately 1/3 the size has taken place in around 10,000 years and so being studied by science.

Cro-Magnon man, classified as human as you, you are their direct descendant yet their skeletal structure and cranium were considerably different than modern humans. Note that I study Cro-Magnon as a hobby so I am personal witness to the evolutional differences.

You want more?

However we know that as usual you will ignore this witnessed evidence in favour of your un-witness belief that your god did it by magic.

---

So - No hot air there just basic, real life fact but if you feel better being a condescending moron then feel free to look idiotic.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#183429 Nov 11, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
You are admitting you consider eternal life unpleasant.
Admit?

Eternal life could very easily be unbearable. Imagine a billion years have passed, and there are a billion billion more ahead. Even then, you wouldn't have put a dent in your sentence.

Imagine being so bored that it's painful, wanting out, and there being no way. If you allow yourself to do that, you will likely be filled with dread. If science were to reveal that that were the case, we'd need to invent a religion that promised the hope of eternal sleep.

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