Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 245248 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181444 Oct 27, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I know where you're going with that.
Christians frequently liken the man-god relationship to the adult-child relationship - what I call Christian infantilization. The model for existence in Christianity is the child's perspective, where there is the need for protection, supervision, and comforting characteristic of childhood.
The entire psychology of Christianity is geared toward the underdevelopment and subordination of the self. It perpetuates dependency, and esteems unknowing and docility. It's authoritarian, paternalistic, filled with superstition, ritual, mythology (stories), and magical thinking.
The Christian is told that he’s born bad and needs constant shepherding from a Heavenly Father figure, a cosmic baby sitter in the sky who is to be obeyed and not questioned.It encourages concrete and uncritical thought, obedience, fear of the boogie man, and a sense of being watched, judged, and punished by a father figure that is keeping account of our actions.
Is that close?
Consider this comment from Bishop John Spong: "The church doesn't like for people to grow up, because you can't control grown-ups. That's why we talk about being born again. When you're 'born again' you're still a child. People don't need to be born again, they need to grow up."
I understand everything you said, have even thought them, and even subscribe to some of thing.

But your focus is skewed and reasoning is a bit warped from it. You are cherry picking to fertilize those marvelous deep thoughts that someone planted in your head. You have advertised yourself as being of a group think. You have intellectualized your self into la la land. And the cult gotcha.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181445 Oct 27, 2013
Doctor REALITY wrote:
<quoted text>Robert, you're going to meet the Lord Jesus Christ after you die, whether you want to, or not.
Then so will you, DR.
Based on your magic book, all you will probably hear from Him is, "I know you not."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181446 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
That is because the courts know that when a thought becomes an organization of thought, then it becomes a belief system. A faith.
Not all belief systems are a faith.

Have you ever asked yourself why you try to push that word onto unbelievers, or what the implications are if you try unsuccessfully?

“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte
Dave Nelson wrote:
Stupidassed Topix atheists don't know what they are. Maybe that is why they are always demanding proof?
We're skeptics, and all we demand is evidence and cogent argument. Even then, we only need it for ourselves. Without it, all you have is faith.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181447 Oct 27, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Giftmas!
That is what I call the celebration of Winter Solstice: giftmas.
The exchange of gifts with people we love, and people we are expected to love (but sometimes find it hard to).
:D
The secular celebration makes far more sense than the Catholic Mass it usurped.

I just find no justification in the ancient Christian and Jewish texts for belief in the Nativity stories.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#181448 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand everything you said, have even thought them, and even subscribe to some of thing.
But your focus is skewed and reasoning is a bit warped from it. You are cherry picking to fertilize those marvelous deep thoughts that someone planted in your head. You have advertised yourself as being of a group think. You have intellectualized your self into la la land. And the cult gotcha.
No proof of god and flailing, your cult has had enough of your weak defense.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181449 Oct 27, 2013
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Already done in 1973. It was originally part of the National Lampoon magazine. Google Son-O-God comics. Lord, I miss those days of gettin' wasted and reading the latest 'Poon.

How about Zap Comix? I'm guessing that you also know Mr. Natural, Fritz the Cat and the Freak Brothers, Angelfood McSpade, Whiteman, the Sewer Snoids, Flaky Foont, Schuman the Human, and Whiteman are.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181450 Oct 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
This post you made was in response to my saying "Atheism is religion, without any of the good points of religion. Your claim was there was nothing good about religion, and this was how you requested an answer.
That is incorrect. I asked you "What's the good part?" You had no answer.
Robert Stevens wrote:
Religion offers social gatherings for people. Religions also raise money for charity.
If that's your complete answer, then I would say that religions are not needed. We can do those things in much less socially damaging ways. Christianity does a lot of harm. It teaches some very bad ideas, and is socially divisive.
Robert Stevens wrote:
The atheist bloggers here, should fall back on whatever personal experience pushed them over the edge, and try to see the good of religion, and religious groups.
I am trying. I'm asking you to help.
Robert Stevens wrote:
The beliefs I now have, I would not want them subjected to public forum.
That's fine, and reasonable. Are you good with me categorizing your beliefs as they appear to me? I can't see why you would object and abstain from correcting me at the same time.

Like Dave Nelson, your posting behavior in defense of organized religion is indistinguishable from that of a Christian. There is no reason to make a distinction, certainly not one based on theology, which is irrelevant to an unbeliever. We don't really care what your doctrinal differences are, just your function in the culture.

That's reasonable, too, right? The faithful argue amongst themselves over what unbelievers consider irrelevancies, such as what is the proper day of the week to worship, or whether baptism should be by sprinkling or immersion. We care more about how you live - how you vote, what you boycott, what causes you fund, who you lobby, and the like.
Robert Stevens wrote:
An atheist is the opposite of myself. It is your desire to have the center stage, that makes you a religious group.
That's an interesting definition of a religious group.

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181451 Oct 27, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Not all belief systems are a faith.
Have you ever asked yourself why you try to push that word onto unbelievers, or what the implications are if you try unsuccessfully?
“I always flinch in embarrassment for the believer who trots out,“Atheism is just another kind of faith,” because it’s a tacit admission that taking claims on faith is a silly thing to do. When you’ve succumbed to arguing that the opposition is just as misguided as you are, it’s time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes.”- Amanda Marcotte
<quoted text>
We're skeptics, and all we demand is evidence and cogent argument. Even then, we only need it for ourselves. Without it, all you have is faith.
Belief is an assumption. An assumption requires a faith. That faith comes in varying degrees. You can "know" you are right, you can "think" you are right, and you can "hope" you are right. And that is based upon your being told they are "right", or by your own past experience.

Do you "know" you are right, or do you "think" you are right, IANS?

Reload your bong and reflect upon what you "know".

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181452 Oct 27, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
No proof of god and flailing, your cult has had enough of your weak defense.
You remind me of a fly with one wing trying to take off. Just going around in circles in a hysterical fashion.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181453 Oct 27, 2013
Any arguement and criteria for "proving" Christianity must be applied to EVERY religion of the last 10,000 years.

Based upon that, all are equally right or wrong.

It seems which ever one you are brainwashed into is the one you believe is the "Truth".

"Some are brainwashed into a religion from birth, some later in life. Some are not brainwashed by religion at all."

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181454 Oct 27, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
Any arguement and criteria for "proving" Christianity must be applied to EVERY religion of the last 10,000 years.
Based upon that, all are equally right or wrong.
It seems which ever one you are brainwashed into is the one you believe is the "Truth".
"Some are brainwashed into a religion from birth, some later in life. Some are not brainwashed by religion at all."
Some are brainwashed into thinking they aren't brainwashed. Those with the most ego need are the easiest to target.

None find the truth until they leave here. Enjoy the fun and games in the meantime.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181455 Oct 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
Excellent post. It is no accident the percentage [2%] cited in the previous post] in a country with religious freedom is so low.
The fraction of people willing to use the word "atheist" to describe themselves is irrelevant. What matters is that the number willing to use the word Christian is headed below 50%.

When all of people who don't have much interest in what Jesus thinks, whether they call themselves atheists, agnostics, skeptics, freethinkers, unbelievers, rationalists, the irreligious, pagan, Druid, New Ager, Wiccan, deists, or "none of the above" on religious affiliation surveys - when we collectively comprise over 50% of the total, Christians will be in the minority, and the Christian church will lose whatever remaining cultural hegemony it has over law, public policy, and dominant societal mores.

What would it matter to us if the fraction calling itself "atheist" fell to zero if the fraction calling itself Christian is less than half?

Incidentally, at the present rate of change, which has been accelerating, and is presently at about a 6% per annum growth rate, that should be by about 2029. I have already given you the raw ARIS and Pew data on this morning, and can supply the calculations on them if you're interested.
Robert Stevens wrote:
Atheism is a religion, and doesn't even rank as a highly likely true religion.
Atheism is a religion, but not a true one? I see. We're a religion when that suits you, but not a true one when that suits you.

This is how one uses language to promote a subjective position as if it were objectively true.

Christians do it with their own as well, such as when they count everyone Christian who calls themselves a Christian while telling us how popular their religion is, then in the next breath, try to distance themselves from most of them and their abominable public records by telling us that they are not true Christians.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181456 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
A surefire indication of your thought process being wacko. I've never said anything of the sort. I read almost every post made on here by everyone.
You are a clone.
You did admit that you skip over all my posts-- on more than one occasion.

But lying is your single unifying trait: you lie, pretty much with each post you write.

Typical of a True Believer™.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181457 Oct 27, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Derp.
Holyfuckinhell, Dave.
Can I have my magnets back?
Remember: Dave is **always** lying.

Even when he's not-- that is by pure random accident-- his **intent** was to lie.

:)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181458 Oct 27, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I am curious as to why you are such a coward, you are ALWAYS to cowardly to answer simple questions. Are you that embarrassed at your complete inability to answer a simple question?
I do realize that your a lazy ass, so I did your homework for you.
The time for Noah's supposed flood was 2348 BC. The Egyptian dynasties that ran from the Third Dynasty to the Sixth Dynasty, covered a time line of 2134-2686. As you can see, the great global flood happened right between the third and sixth dynasties. So, a simple question, but I guess my questions aren't that simple, Did the people of Egypt hear Noah's forewarning for the flood?
In China, Emperor Zhi ruled from 2255-2358, again the great flood took place during his last 10 years as Emperor. Same simple question. Did the people of China hear Noah's forewarning of the great world-wide flood?
Why is there NO mention in either Egyptian or Chinese records of this devastating flood that killed everyone in both countries?
What **I** find amazing about China?

Is that they had lovely written Chinese language **before** the flood, and then were "wiped out to the last man" by the flood.

And then? Magically? The sons of Noah that found their way **back** to China, mysteriously re-learned Chinese and re-invented the amazing written Chinese language--**exactly** as before!

That is so amazingly unlikely?

It is unbelievable...

;)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181459 Oct 27, 2013
scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose if Bob had included magnets, <.·:*¨`*EM*¨`*:·.>, thingies and green vaporous death snakes in his post you'd approve of his writing and say they were "OK".
Dave, all insanity is original, but only yours is to you.
If a person declares everyone that they meet is insane or crazy?

What are the odds that it is the person making the declarations who is crazy, instead of everyone else?

:)

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#181460 Oct 27, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You did admit that you skip over all my posts-- on more than one occasion.
But lying is your single unifying trait: you lie, pretty much with each post you write.
Typical of a True Believer™.
Post the message where I said that.

Your vision is blurred, along with your memory. You see what you want to see.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181461 Oct 27, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Better ethical philosophy, better political philosophy, and better natural philosophy.
Fortunately, the more reasonable among the faithful have been adopting the ethics of reason and compassion - secular ethics - for centuries. The invention and addition of the New Testament's gentle god to the ferocious god of the Old Testament was a great advance, as was the declaration (by Paul, but not by Jesus) that the old law was obsolete. Christians were no longer compelled not to suffer witches.
And secular advances have had a tremendous effect on Christianity since then as well, most notably in natural philosophy and political philosophy.
Many are calling their creation myth allegory, a triumph of secular science. And most apart from the Dominionists have embraced the modern, liberal, secular, democratic state despite the dictatorial biblical model for governance to the contrary, where their god in heaven, the divinely appointed king on earth, and the male the head of the household all hold power absolutely - not by taking votes nor counting hands.
Of course, many Christians want to imply that these are all Christian innovations. They frequently remind us many of the earliest scientists and the American founding fathers were believers as their religions were the source of their maverick thinking rather than their willingness to think freely.
It's all good.
Yes-- I do find it amusing that,**after** secular ideas eventually gain the higher ground (example: the US civil rights movement), then suddenly all the True Believers™(save a scant few hold-backs) were with it all along.

And they dig around for obscure "proof" to support this new-found enthusiasm for the secular ideas.

Obviously, at some point in the not too distant future?

100% of the bible will become allegorical.

And that is fine-- at that point, it will become just another legendary book to sit along side the ones claiming Santa Claus was "based" on a real person. <heh>

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181462 Oct 27, 2013
Just Think wrote:
There is no atheist philosophy/religion.
All atheism is is the lack of belief in deities.
Robert Stevens wrote:
Excuse me I had to sweep my jaw off the floor. You really need to stop posting here and start reading books. Atheism is born out of Philosophy. When the Greeks presented their Gods, Philosophers questioned the mythology.
That doesn't make atheism a philosophy.

Atheism is an appropriate topic for philosophers to consider, but is not a philosophy. It's philosophical underpinnings are such things as rational skepticism, empiricism, and methodological naturalism, but all it is is the necessary conclusion of those principles applied to questions of the supernatural.

Could you do us the courtesy of letting us tell you what we believe ourselves? I thank you in advance.
Robert Stevens wrote:
If Atheist were to have a modern Bible it would be the writings of Friedrich Nietzche.
Very few of us espouse Nietzsche, Hobbes, Stalin, Ayn Rand, Jehovah, Luther, Calvin, nor any other monster.

The ethical philosopher that resonates best with me is Spinoza.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181463 Oct 27, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Some are brainwashed into thinking they aren't brainwashed. Those with the most ego need are the easiest to target.
None find the truth until they leave here. Enjoy the fun and games in the meantime.
Agreed!

I am not an atheist and "believe in" Jesus, too. I just don't accept 90% of what modern Christianity tries to pass off as "The Word of God".

All Topix is for me is stimulation to continue seeking the truth.

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