Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181246 Oct 25, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Point on slavery is well taken.

Note that in the USA until less than 100 years ago, one was better off being a slave in the south than a factory worker in the North.
Well... better off is a relative term, is it not?

Those factory workers were worked like... slaves.. yes. But, they could have walked away, if they wanted-- and not been hounded to death for doing so, and shot down like animals.

The southern slaves? Not so much.

And that, I propose, is the chief distinction.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#181247 Oct 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Those kind of decisions are manmade.
ALL decisions are manmade.

Until and IF you can manage to produce this ... "god" of yours, that is.

There is your conundrum: you cannot produce your god.

So you don't **get** to make claims about it-- until you do.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#181248 Oct 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The children of avowed atheists, atheists from ignorance, and even children of the righteous can all have their existence terminated. Then they get sorted out.
Child protective services are well known for taking children out of bad situations to place them in better environments. Why not their Creator?
Your logic is limited.
Please tell me you're joking with this...

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181249 Oct 25, 2013
It is impossible to read the OT and not come to realize that YHWY is an evil POS.

Anyone who denies that is inane or brainwashed.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Even the babies? Even the little, tiny kids?
They all drowned too-- were **they** offered a chance? No?
How about all the puppies and kittens who also drowned? Were **they** given a chance? No?
What about all the **other** animals in the world-- were **they** given a choice? No?
Face it: the flood story is one of the most **EVIL** stories ever fabricated by man.
And you worship the god who you believe, perpetuated such an ugly tale of god-evil.
Wow....
... what does that make YOU?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181250 Oct 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
True enough. But pretty quickly (as these things go) even the Jews quit doing any sort of burnt offering, apart from purely symbolic gestures.
True. The Jews themselves will admit that their culture has evolved.
Note that most Jews refer to Judaism as "traditions" not "religions".

IMHO, modern Judaism is closer to what Jesus taught than Christianity.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#181251 Oct 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Well... better off is a relative term, is it not?
Those factory workers were worked like... slaves.. yes. But, they could have walked away, if they wanted-- and not been hounded to death for doing so, and shot down like animals.
The southern slaves? Not so much.
And that, I propose, is the chief distinction.
Not if they owed the company store, and yes, they could and were shot down like animals. The money men owned the towns and law in those days.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181252 Oct 25, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
.....
Those factory workers were worked like... slaves.. yes. But, they could have walked away, if they wanted-.....
Oh Boy! They got to choose where they would be worked to death!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181253 Oct 25, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Education is the key to preventing unwanted pregnancies.
But not just any education. By definition, it has to be effective education to prevent unwanted pregnancies. Fortunately, you seem to agree that abstinence-only education, which is often taught in parochial schools, is less effective than the sex education based on empiric studies and offered in the secular public schools. That is to your credit.

My purpose with all of these plugs for secularism is to point out what a huge contribution secular pursuits have made compared to the contributions from the bible and the church, which have been relatively sterile resources for useful knowledge. You seem to acknowledge that at times, yet still prefer the religious.

Let me ask you this, and you needn't answer to anybody but yourself: If you were wrong in your faith, and it could somehow be demonstrated to you in a compelling and undeniable way, would you want to know?

I believe that most Christians, are happy with their faith, and wouldn't want it undermined whether there was a god or not. They want to believe something that comforts them even if incorrect more than they want to believe something that is correct even if uncomfortable. Would you agree with that?

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181254 Oct 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not if they owed the company store, and yes, they could and were shot down like animals. The money men owned the towns and law in those days.
Correct!

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#181255 Oct 25, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell me you're joking with this...
There was no smiley face.

It is the perogative of a creator of something they made from scratch to manage such as they see fit. Deal with that.

I wonder what you would do if you exerted lots of time and labor making something that then turned around and cussed you out and told you all the wrong things you did. You probably wouldn't put up with too much moral judgements made by them on you. You might save the ones that worked out better.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#181256 Oct 25, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Itís an Atheist site ran and moderated by Atheist.
That's a good start - atheism - but it's not enough. Being an atheist merely means that you are a skeptic. But you need to be a rational skeptic. People into astrology reject god's. They the (unconscious) stars rule our lives. They're just as much into magical thinking as theists, but they're atheists.

Talk Origins is more than atheistic. It embraces rational skepticism

That's fine for a scientific resource, but for a philosophy of life, rational skepticism isn't enough. There needs to be humanism, which adds compassion and social conscience. The Ayn Rand objectivists, for example, are rational skeptics, but they're cold and selfish. Likewise with the Dick Cheney types.

All of these ingredients must be present to have an optimal ideology. Remove rational from skeptical and humanist, and you get new agey types, who are kind people and make good neighbors, but contribute as little to mundane matters and are as sterile as the religious.

What we are are secular humanists - compassionate, rational skeptics. What Talk Origins is is a rational skeptical site. Calling us atheists leaves out so much.

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“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181257 Oct 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
....I wonder what you would do if you exerted lots of time and labor making something that then turned around and cussed you out and told you all the wrong things you did......
Almost every parent and child on the planet.

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Since: Sep 08

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#181258 Oct 25, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Almost every parent and child on the planet.
Remarkable semblance to the man/god thing, eh?

The child always knows what's best for themselves. Just ask them.

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“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#181259 Oct 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Remarkable semblance to the man/god thing, eh?
The child always knows what's best for themselves. Just ask them.
At some point they grow up and realize their parents weren't perfect.

Perhaps that is my problem with Christianity and even more so with Islam. They didn't grow up.

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Since: Sep 08

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#181260 Oct 25, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
At some point they grow up and realize their parents weren't perfect.
Perhaps that is my problem with Christianity and even more so with Islam. They didn't grow up.
Perhaps you didn't understand what was being said at the time, or realize those books written by men weren't so perfect.

Some things are best looked back at with more seasoned eyes. You can see things you didn't notice before, particularly when you have learned to quit worshipping words and are looking for information. One book can't catch it all. You need a library to get you started. Even then you never get the whole picture, just an intuition.

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Since: Apr 09

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#181261 Oct 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
There was no smiley face.
It is the perogative of a creator of something they made from scratch to manage such as they see fit. Deal with that.
I wonder what you would do if you exerted lots of time and labor making something that then turned around and cussed you out and told you all the wrong things you did. You probably wouldn't put up with too much moral judgements made by them on you. You might save the ones that worked out better.
You know what I wouldn't do?

I wouldn't kill them.

But, then, that's what makes humans better than gods.

And just so no one forgets - this is what you wrote:

"The children of avowed atheists, atheists from ignorance, and even children of the righteous can all have their existence terminated. Then they get sorted out.
Child protective services are well known for taking children out of bad situations to place them in better environments. Why not their Creator?"

So, really, you're just completely batshit crazy.

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Since: Apr 09

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#181262 Oct 25, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Remarkable semblance to the man/god thing, eh?
The child always knows what's best for themselves. Just ask them.
And if they still don't listen, you apparently just want to kill them.

Freak.

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Since: Sep 08

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#181263 Oct 25, 2013
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
And if they still don't listen, you apparently just want to kill them.
Freak.
You are on the irrational side.

Tell me something. You are an atheist and believe in evolution. What is so holy about children?

Gee, some of your atheist ancestors ate them when times got real desperate, then just made more later if they survived. Hey, an evolved being has to eat, right?

Where are you getting this holy stuff?

Just think about it.

chuckle

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Since: Jun 07

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#181264 Oct 25, 2013
Religious liars like Dave Nelson have no proof of god and ramble on
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#181265 Oct 25, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
It sounds like you agree with Mikko if you disagree with the courts. You seem to realize that the American courts do not create any part of reality other than how laws are interpreted for Americans.
Atheism is not a religion. Neither is secular humanism - unless you are willing to call any belief system a religion regardless of what it advocates.
I do agree with Mikko. But our courts have made a ruling that it is a religion.

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