Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180007 Oct 14, 2013
Actor Kirk Cameron and his move from Atheism.

19 Sep 2013 Written by Mark Ellis | Godreports.com

At age 17 he had it all. As Mike Seaver on the hit TV show Growing Pains, he became a teen heartthrob and was making $50,000 a week. Magazines like Tiger Beat featured him regularly on their covers. He traveled the world meeting famous people.
But in his pursuit of a young woman's affections, the girl's father made it clear that amid all his youthful fame and success, there was one thing he lacked – God.
"There's still something you don't have, Kirk," the man told a surprised Cameron. "You don't have the Lord."
"I don't believe in God and that's not something I'm interested in," he informed the dad, matter-of-factly. Cameron considered himself a "staunch" atheist, too intelligent to believe in fairytales.
When the girl's family invited him to attend church with them later, he went reluctantly. "I only went because the girl was really cute and I wanted to get to know her," he admits.
Sitting in a church pew for the first time brought an unexpected reaction. "This man stood up there with a Bible, which I thought was a dusty old book designed to take the fun out of your life," he recounts.
But the message grabbed Cameron's attention. "He explained that we were designed by God to know Him and love Him and obey Him and be in right relation with Him."
"But something separates us from God and that 'something' He calls sin. Sin is the selfish streak that runs deep through the heart of every person."
The pastor explained that sin manifests itself when people lie, steal, or dishonor their parents. It can show up when you put other things in your life in a more important position than God.
When he heard this last part, Cameron felt a sinking sensation in his heart. "I realized my dirty socks were more important to me than God."
As the pastor continued, he clearly stated the ramifications of sin. "God hates sin not only because it separates us from Him, but because it's wrong. God will punish sin and those who commit sin in a place called hell."
That seems really harsh, Cameron thought to himself.
But then the pastor offered good news, a way out of this dilemma. "God is also loving and compassionate and He's provided a way to be forgiven by sending His Son Jesus to die on a cross.
"Jesus died to pay the price for our sins. If we humble ourselves and turn from our sins and trust in what Jesus did, God will grant us forgiveness and everlasting life. He did this because of His great love for us."
As Cameron sat in the back of the church, a wave of guilt swept over him. "I knew I had sinned against God," he admitted. At the same time, the first pale gleams of faith stirred his soul.
"My heart was swelling with hope that that this amazing God who sees my sinful heart would be compassionate enough to take my punishment for me and forgive me."
Questions were swirling in Cameron's mind when he took his girlfriend home. Where did we come from? he wondered to himself. Where are we going when we die? Is there really a God in heaven?
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180008 Oct 14, 2013
Part 2

"I didn't know what to say to my friend's father," he says, but he began to pepper him with questions. "I asked him about the Bible. I asked him for answers and he gave me intelligent answers."
Then one rejoinder stopped Cameron in his tracks. "Kirk, there's one question you need to ask God Himself – whether or not He's real."
How am I supposed to do that? he wondered.
Over the next few weeks, Cameron began to read the Bible for the first time. He also went back to church a few more times.
Then he found himself alone in his sports car, parked by the side of the road. An unsettling issue dogged his thoughts. If I get in a car accident and die tonight, will I go to heaven?
He realized the answer was no. He had ignored God his entire life; he put everything else in his life in a more important position than God.
"I sinned against Him, even knowing the thing I had done were wrong because I thought I could get away with it. I knew God saw it all and there was no reason He should let me into heaven."
For the first time in his life, Cameron bowed his head and prayed a brief prayer. "God, if you're there, I need to know. If you're real, would you please show me? Would you please forgive me for my pride and arrogance? Change me into the person you want me to be."
Cameron slowly opened his eyes and felt a newfound sense of hope and expectation. "It wasn't like a gust of wind blew through my window or I saw Jesus on my windshield, but I had a very real sense God heard me. I felt He was listening to me, that He is real."
Cameron felt so good he went home and told a Christian friend about his experience. He began to read the Bible regularly.
"I started learning about this amazing God," Cameron exults. "He's not a big bad cop in the sky waiting to punish people," he says. "He is a holy, just and righteous God who wants us to turn from our sins so we can be forgiven. It's an amazing story of love."
"That's the God I have fallen in love with and live for. Of all the things I've done, nothing compares with the joy of knowing Jesus Christ."
Article link: http://blog.godreports.com/2013/09/actor-kirk...

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#180009 Oct 14, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Oh, look! Princess is back. It's going to be all rainbows and butterflies from now on. What a beautiful spirit.
Nano flies first class on the astral plane.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180011 Oct 14, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Remember when Peter said, "Greet one another with a kiss of love"?
I do that with my girlfriend.
Cool, huh?
My Dear Atheist friend, I do remember, however it says with a,“holy” kiss. But I do not judge or condemn you as you suppose. For Jesus came not to condemn the world but to save it.

John 3:17
King James Version (KJV)

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#180012 Oct 14, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
hehehe...well I wouldn't say you were still young, but I used to take care of people much older than you, and they would have probably called you a young whippersnapper :)
Actually, I think I am still a young whippersnapper as long as I don't look in a mirror, or try to carry something that I did a lot when I was 32.:)
Imhotep

Matthews, NC

#180013 Oct 14, 2013
Puff piece # 666 - GHS

Christianity cannot erase man's need for pleasure, nor can it eradicate the various sources of pleasure. What it can do, however, and what it has been extremely effective in accomplishing, is to inculcate guilt in connection with pleasure.

The pursuit of pleasure, when accompanied by guilt, becomes a means of perpetuating chronic guilt, and this serves to reinforce one's dependence on God.

Christianity, with some exceptions, has never explicitly advocated human misery; it prefers instead to speak of sacrifices in this life so that benefits may be garnered in the life to come. One invests in this life, so to speak, and collects interest in the next.

Fortunately for Christianity, the dead cannot return for a refund.

Through inculcating the notion that sacrifice is a virtue, Christianity has succeeded in convincing many people that misery incurred through sacrifice is a mark of virtue. Pain becomes the insignia of morality - and conversely, pleasure becomes the insignia of immorality. Christianity, therefore, does not say, "Go forth and be miserable". Rather, it says, "Go forth and practice the virtue of self-sacrifice".

In practical terms, these commands are identical.

In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise,

Christianity must convince men that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from.

Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe.

If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." ~Mark Twain

I am Imhotep® and I approve this post.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180014 Oct 14, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. You, nor any other godbot/christian/funnymentalis t have ever provided ANY evidence that I am off base. Oh you chant it often enough and even offer obfuscation and irrelevancies but never – EVER provide any backup for you lies. Why is this? Could it be because you are actually incapable of making a valid point, incapable of discussion of anything that contradicts you faith in the belief of bronze age escaped slaves and goat herders?
And again why are you blaming my disability for your ignorance of that disability? Such an ignorant and pathetic christian and the very reason why I am no longer christian, because of ignorant morons like you who are incapable of understanding any one not “created” as you personally believe your god should have made them
Also wrong. But hey, you are christian so understanding of what dyslexia actually is is not in your brief right and so you rely on ignorance and hearsay and so obviously self possessed lying guesswork that you are incapable of seeing the lies you vomit
And a christian telling a dyslexic that they can improve is more evidence enough that you are an ignorant fool with no comprehension of the facts of the disability
Tell me. Do you enjoy kicking cripples as a hobby?
My Dearly beloved Atheist friend, I now have a better understanding of the problem you’re dealing with due to your in-depth reply. May you go forward with peace in your heart.[tipping hat]

By the way, your cynicism towards me is like water on a ducks back. I expect nothing less from you my friend.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180015 Oct 14, 2013
Tamsin a English Actress, was raised an Atheist. No belief in God whatsoever. Having no radical brain washing as Atheist would describe it. Found God was real in her own journey in this life at the age of 30 years old.

From wiki:

Tamsin Margaret M. Greig (/&#712;tæmz&#618;n &#712;&#609;r&#603 ;&#609;/; born 12 July 1966)[2] is an English actress principally known for her roles in two Channel 4 television comedies: Fran Katzenjammer in Black Books and Dr. Caroline Todd in Green Wing. She currently stars in two sitcoms: as Beverly Lincoln in transatlantic sitcom Episodes, and as Jackie in the Channel 4 sitcom Friday Night Dinner. Other notable roles include Alice Chenery in BBC One's comedy drama Love Soup, Debbie Aldridge in BBC Radio 4's soap opera The Archers, and Miss Bates in the 2009 BBC version of Jane Austen's Emma. Greig is also an acclaimed stage actress; she won a Laurence Olivier Award for Best Actress in 2007 for Much Ado About Nothing, and was nominated again in 2011 for her role in The Little Dog Laughed.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#180016 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
...it says with a,“holy” kiss.....
Which hole ?

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

Location hidden

#180017 Oct 14, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are irrational.
And you are Insane.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#180018 Oct 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> So Dave which is worse?
Her irrational state or your delusional state ?
When you hit delirious , I gotcha.
Her irrational state, without a doubt. She gets all bitchy.

Hey, Yoda, Jr,, cool avatar you got there. Keep at it, you are almost out to his galaxy. Maybe you two can have lunch and he could teach you how to use that light saber.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#180019 Oct 14, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Her irrational state, without a doubt. She gets all bitchy.
Hey, Yoda, Jr,, cool avatar you got there. Keep at it, you are almost out to his galaxy. Maybe you two can have lunch and he could teach you how to use that light saber.
I busy with Optimus Prime this week.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#180020 Oct 14, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Belief you are a magical being that popped in out of nowhere is a sign of mental illness.
Turkey brain, if even we, as products of this origination, can identify a beginning of the process of our evolution from such a magic poof, then we have identified a higher force in creative action.
Nothing starts unless something starts it. Nothing can "explode" into a total void and then coalesce into what we call matter. It has to be a bottled up environment for that to happen. Your material world is manufactured. Unfortunately, it appears yours is missing some parts, or has some cold solder joints preventing designed connections and circuitry from being completed.
That makes you a dummy instead of a really animated creature.
Dave, what non-believers think everything came from nothing? I certainly don't. I think the most popular theory of everything coming from nothing is Creationism. I think that the quote "in the beginning God created...." implies that aside from this thing which the Bible calls "God" there was nothing, because I think that the writers at that time assumed that heaven and earth was all that there was. So before there was something there had to have been "nothing", except it leaves a big question as to how was there a god if there was nothing. A god existing would not be nothing, assuming it were true.

I highly suspect that there has always been existence in some form and in some place, but the parts of that which man is now aware of, took their present form and state in more recent billions of years. What that came from was already in existence, but what that existence looked like, we do not yet have a clue.

With the massive amounts of knowledge we have today of the makeup of things that we see, and also forces that we can test for, but do not have a physical appearance, such as gravity, we can explain and understand better how "things" came about, whereas back 2000 to 4000 years ago, man had no knowledge of any of the information that we have tested and proved today, so creating a magical means for things coming into being was a way of filling a gap in their thinking. Better to say that an invisible force, or being, did it than to just never have a clue.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180021 Oct 14, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
Puff piece # 666 - GHS
Christianity cannot erase man's need for pleasure, nor can it eradicate the various sources of pleasure. What it can do, however, and what it has been extremely effective in accomplishing, is to inculcate guilt in connection with pleasure.
The pursuit of pleasure, when accompanied by guilt, becomes a means of perpetuating chronic guilt, and this serves to reinforce one's dependence on God.
Christianity, with some exceptions, has never explicitly advocated human misery; it prefers instead to speak of sacrifices in this life so that benefits may be garnered in the life to come. One invests in this life, so to speak, and collects interest in the next.
Fortunately for Christianity, the dead cannot return for a refund.
Through inculcating the notion that sacrifice is a virtue, Christianity has succeeded in convincing many people that misery incurred through sacrifice is a mark of virtue. Pain becomes the insignia of morality - and conversely, pleasure becomes the insignia of immorality. Christianity, therefore, does not say, "Go forth and be miserable". Rather, it says, "Go forth and practice the virtue of self-sacrifice".
In practical terms, these commands are identical.
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise,
Christianity must convince men that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from.
Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe.
If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." ~Mark Twain
I am Imhotep® and I approve this post.
Please define what you mean by “Pleasure.”
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180022 Oct 14, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Which hole ?
Let me guess, you’re not a comedian by trade. I can tell.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#180023 Oct 14, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
The answers to your questions will vary in accordance to the ambitious person that gains control. Without the moral reflections religions offer, there will be no controlling the corruption of the wealthy abusing the less fortunate. The power of the populist would go unchallenged, and it won't have a moral code.
The Atheist here slay me with this idea, that there would no longer be positions that adults would not be able to exploit youths. You just won't hear about them because the media would not be permitted to report all. Atheist as anti-religion would have safe guards that would control the media, as it does in China.
To answer your question or statement, no I did not like George Bush, either one, but I would unquestionable vote for either of them over any atheist. Your own mind is not a free society, as I previously posted you only regard two possibilities of thoughts amongst the common masses. I see no need to give your sort a try out.
Do you think that all of the Presidents of the USA, for example, who claimed to be believers, actually were, or were some atheists, but were politically astute enough to know that stating they were atheists in a Bible thumping country would not likely win them any elections? Some of these men (so far I guess the USA has had only males in the top role whereas it seems that many other countries with similar backgrounds have ventured into letting females take the wheel) very likely were highly educated men, who could not, if they were being honest believe in much of what a believer is expected to believe, because they would know from their education background that it is not true.

If one were to look at the private lives, and even the public lives, of many, if not most, Presidents, I think that you will find that most of them would not have obeyed the laws of God entirely. One, would however expect, I should think, that a person in the very top leadership of a country claiming to be theistic would be the best example of what that means.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#180024 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Part 2
"I didn't know what to say to my friend's father," he says, but he began to pepper him with questions. "I asked him about the Bible. I asked him for answers and he gave me intelligent answers."
Then one rejoinder stopped Cameron in his tracks. "Kirk, there's one question you need to ask God Himself – whether or not He's real."
How am I supposed to do that? he wondered.
Over the next few weeks, Cameron began to read the Bible for the first time. He also went back to church a few more times.
Then he found himself alone in his sports car, parked by the side of the road. An unsettling issue dogged his thoughts. If I get in a car accident and die tonight, will I go to heaven?
He realized the answer was no. He had ignored God his entire life; he put everything else in his life in a more important position than God.
"I sinned against Him, even knowing the thing I had done were wrong because I thought I could get away with it. I knew God saw it all and there was no reason He should let me into heaven."
For the first time in his life, Cameron bowed his head and prayed a brief prayer. "God, if you're there, I need to know. If you're real, would you please show me? Would you please forgive me for my pride and arrogance? Change me into the person you want me to be."
Cameron slowly opened his eyes and felt a newfound sense of hope and expectation. "It wasn't like a gust of wind blew through my window or I saw Jesus on my windshield, but I had a very real sense God heard me. I felt He was listening to me, that He is real."
Cameron felt so good he went home and told a Christian friend about his experience. He began to read the Bible regularly.
"I started learning about this amazing God," Cameron exults. "He's not a big bad cop in the sky waiting to punish people," he says. "He is a holy, just and righteous God who wants us to turn from our sins so we can be forgiven. It's an amazing story of love."
"That's the God I have fallen in love with and live for. Of all the things I've done, nothing compares with the joy of knowing Jesus Christ."
Article link: http://blog.godreports.com/2013/09/actor-kirk...
And to learn more about Kirk Cameron, please go to youtube and search "Kirk Cameron Banana" or "Kirk Cameron Evolution" or "Kirk Cameron Owned"

Sadly, Kirk Cameron epitomizes everything that is wrong with fundies...
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180025 Oct 14, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave, what non-believers think everything came from nothing? I certainly don't. I think the most popular theory of everything coming from nothing is Creationism. I think that the quote "in the beginning God created...." implies that aside from this thing which the Bible calls "God" there was nothing, because I think that the writers at that time assumed that heaven and earth was all that there was. So before there was something there had to have been "nothing", except it leaves a big question as to how was there a god if there was nothing. A god existing would not be nothing, assuming it were true.
I highly suspect that there has always been existence in some form and in some place, but the parts of that which man is now aware of, took their present form and state in more recent billions of years. What that came from was already in existence, but what that existence looked like, we do not yet have a clue.
With the massive amounts of knowledge we have today of the makeup of things that we see, and also forces that we can test for, but do not have a physical appearance, such as gravity, we can explain and understand better how "things" came about, whereas back 2000 to 4000 years ago, man had no knowledge of any of the information that we have tested and proved today, so creating a magical means for things coming into being was a way of filling a gap in their thinking. Better to say that an invisible force, or being, did it than to just never have a clue.
Science has some idea’s about how things started but nothing definite. For example there’s nothing definite on how all life started on the Earth. There’s only about 20 different theories. But I do understand what you’re saying.

I just don’t agree with any of it. To accept everything including the stars were self created would be similar saying the Boeing 757 self created. There’s so much complexity in life and the cosmos it couldn’t have just self generated this complexity.

Like for example the bug that was recently found in the UK with gears that contain synchronized teeth in their legs. Gears are a mechanical device which takes an engineer to create. Especially gears that work flawlessly.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180026 Oct 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
She was probably pulling your leg.
Okay, thank you.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180027 Oct 14, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall posting to you at all.
The Carchar fellow perhaps?
Then I humbly apologize.

Clearly, I had confused you with someone else.

I am sorry.

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