Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180021 Oct 14, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
Puff piece # 666 - GHS
Christianity cannot erase man's need for pleasure, nor can it eradicate the various sources of pleasure. What it can do, however, and what it has been extremely effective in accomplishing, is to inculcate guilt in connection with pleasure.
The pursuit of pleasure, when accompanied by guilt, becomes a means of perpetuating chronic guilt, and this serves to reinforce one's dependence on God.
Christianity, with some exceptions, has never explicitly advocated human misery; it prefers instead to speak of sacrifices in this life so that benefits may be garnered in the life to come. One invests in this life, so to speak, and collects interest in the next.
Fortunately for Christianity, the dead cannot return for a refund.
Through inculcating the notion that sacrifice is a virtue, Christianity has succeeded in convincing many people that misery incurred through sacrifice is a mark of virtue. Pain becomes the insignia of morality - and conversely, pleasure becomes the insignia of immorality. Christianity, therefore, does not say, "Go forth and be miserable". Rather, it says, "Go forth and practice the virtue of self-sacrifice".
In practical terms, these commands are identical.
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise,
Christianity must convince men that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from.
Christianity has nothing to offer a happy man living in a natural, intelligible universe.
If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, man is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows." ~Mark Twain
I am Imhotep® and I approve this post.
Please define what you mean by “Pleasure.”
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180022 Oct 14, 2013
BenAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
Which hole ?
Let me guess, you’re not a comedian by trade. I can tell.

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#180023 Oct 14, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
The answers to your questions will vary in accordance to the ambitious person that gains control. Without the moral reflections religions offer, there will be no controlling the corruption of the wealthy abusing the less fortunate. The power of the populist would go unchallenged, and it won't have a moral code.
The Atheist here slay me with this idea, that there would no longer be positions that adults would not be able to exploit youths. You just won't hear about them because the media would not be permitted to report all. Atheist as anti-religion would have safe guards that would control the media, as it does in China.
To answer your question or statement, no I did not like George Bush, either one, but I would unquestionable vote for either of them over any atheist. Your own mind is not a free society, as I previously posted you only regard two possibilities of thoughts amongst the common masses. I see no need to give your sort a try out.
Do you think that all of the Presidents of the USA, for example, who claimed to be believers, actually were, or were some atheists, but were politically astute enough to know that stating they were atheists in a Bible thumping country would not likely win them any elections? Some of these men (so far I guess the USA has had only males in the top role whereas it seems that many other countries with similar backgrounds have ventured into letting females take the wheel) very likely were highly educated men, who could not, if they were being honest believe in much of what a believer is expected to believe, because they would know from their education background that it is not true.

If one were to look at the private lives, and even the public lives, of many, if not most, Presidents, I think that you will find that most of them would not have obeyed the laws of God entirely. One, would however expect, I should think, that a person in the very top leadership of a country claiming to be theistic would be the best example of what that means.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#180024 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Part 2
"I didn't know what to say to my friend's father," he says, but he began to pepper him with questions. "I asked him about the Bible. I asked him for answers and he gave me intelligent answers."
Then one rejoinder stopped Cameron in his tracks. "Kirk, there's one question you need to ask God Himself – whether or not He's real."
How am I supposed to do that? he wondered.
Over the next few weeks, Cameron began to read the Bible for the first time. He also went back to church a few more times.
Then he found himself alone in his sports car, parked by the side of the road. An unsettling issue dogged his thoughts. If I get in a car accident and die tonight, will I go to heaven?
He realized the answer was no. He had ignored God his entire life; he put everything else in his life in a more important position than God.
"I sinned against Him, even knowing the thing I had done were wrong because I thought I could get away with it. I knew God saw it all and there was no reason He should let me into heaven."
For the first time in his life, Cameron bowed his head and prayed a brief prayer. "God, if you're there, I need to know. If you're real, would you please show me? Would you please forgive me for my pride and arrogance? Change me into the person you want me to be."
Cameron slowly opened his eyes and felt a newfound sense of hope and expectation. "It wasn't like a gust of wind blew through my window or I saw Jesus on my windshield, but I had a very real sense God heard me. I felt He was listening to me, that He is real."
Cameron felt so good he went home and told a Christian friend about his experience. He began to read the Bible regularly.
"I started learning about this amazing God," Cameron exults. "He's not a big bad cop in the sky waiting to punish people," he says. "He is a holy, just and righteous God who wants us to turn from our sins so we can be forgiven. It's an amazing story of love."
"That's the God I have fallen in love with and live for. Of all the things I've done, nothing compares with the joy of knowing Jesus Christ."
Article link: http://blog.godreports.com/2013/09/actor-kirk...
And to learn more about Kirk Cameron, please go to youtube and search "Kirk Cameron Banana" or "Kirk Cameron Evolution" or "Kirk Cameron Owned"

Sadly, Kirk Cameron epitomizes everything that is wrong with fundies...
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#180025 Oct 14, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave, what non-believers think everything came from nothing? I certainly don't. I think the most popular theory of everything coming from nothing is Creationism. I think that the quote "in the beginning God created...." implies that aside from this thing which the Bible calls "God" there was nothing, because I think that the writers at that time assumed that heaven and earth was all that there was. So before there was something there had to have been "nothing", except it leaves a big question as to how was there a god if there was nothing. A god existing would not be nothing, assuming it were true.
I highly suspect that there has always been existence in some form and in some place, but the parts of that which man is now aware of, took their present form and state in more recent billions of years. What that came from was already in existence, but what that existence looked like, we do not yet have a clue.
With the massive amounts of knowledge we have today of the makeup of things that we see, and also forces that we can test for, but do not have a physical appearance, such as gravity, we can explain and understand better how "things" came about, whereas back 2000 to 4000 years ago, man had no knowledge of any of the information that we have tested and proved today, so creating a magical means for things coming into being was a way of filling a gap in their thinking. Better to say that an invisible force, or being, did it than to just never have a clue.
Science has some idea’s about how things started but nothing definite. For example there’s nothing definite on how all life started on the Earth. There’s only about 20 different theories. But I do understand what you’re saying.

I just don’t agree with any of it. To accept everything including the stars were self created would be similar saying the Boeing 757 self created. There’s so much complexity in life and the cosmos it couldn’t have just self generated this complexity.

Like for example the bug that was recently found in the UK with gears that contain synchronized teeth in their legs. Gears are a mechanical device which takes an engineer to create. Especially gears that work flawlessly.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180026 Oct 14, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
She was probably pulling your leg.
Okay, thank you.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180027 Oct 14, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't recall posting to you at all.
The Carchar fellow perhaps?
Then I humbly apologize.

Clearly, I had confused you with someone else.

I am sorry.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180028 Oct 14, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
He is such a marsh mellow, he thinks it's cool to insult people that disagree with him, then when you strike back you are a bigot. He seeks the politically correct fairy. Bunk him worm meat are not a minority. We don't agree with their agenda, and we accept them for what they, themselves tell us they are.
Seven Godly Sins

If god destroys people for not obeying him, it is WRATH
If god punishes people for believing in a different god, it is ENVY
If god lets tragedies and disasters happen of which he could have prevented, it is SLOTH
If god allows anyone to hunger unnecessarily while he has enough for himself, it is GLUTTONY
If god expects his followers to dedicate their lives to worshiping and praying to him, it is PRIDE
If god insists his followers pay tithes and offerings for his approval, it is GREED
If god intends on being party to every marriage, it is LUST

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180029 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Bob just walked into the saloon and started shooting everybody.
Not only that Bob has buried you with a cross on boot hill.
Rest in peace beloved Brother Catcher1, lol…..
Seven Godly Sins

If god destroys people for not obeying him, it is WRATH
If god punishes people for believing in a different god, it is ENVY
If god lets tragedies and disasters happen of which he could have prevented, it is SLOTH
If god allows anyone to hunger unnecessarily while he has enough for himself, it is GLUTTONY
If god expects his followers to dedicate their lives to worshiping and praying to him, it is PRIDE
If god insists his followers pay tithes and offerings for his approval, it is GREED
If god intends on being party to every marriage, it is LUST

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180030 Oct 14, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you confusing Catcher with Carchar king? Catcher is a rational skeptic.
I must have been... my bad...I've apologized.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#180031 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
My Dear Atheist friend, I do remember, however it says with a,“holy” kiss. But I do not judge or condemn you as you suppose. For Jesus came not to condemn the world but to save it.
John 3:17
King James Version (KJV)
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Seven Godly Sins

If god destroys people for not obeying him, it is WRATH
If god punishes people for believing in a different god, it is ENVY
If god lets tragedies and disasters happen of which he could have prevented, it is SLOTH
If god allows anyone to hunger unnecessarily while he has enough for himself, it is GLUTTONY
If god expects his followers to dedicate their lives to worshiping and praying to him, it is PRIDE
If god insists his followers pay tithes and offerings for his approval, it is GREED
If god intends on being party to every marriage, it is LUST

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#180032 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Science has some idea’s about how things started but nothing definite. For example there’s nothing definite on how all life started on the Earth. There’s only about 20 different theories. But I do understand what you’re saying.
I just don’t agree with any of it. To accept everything including the stars were self created would be similar saying the Boeing 757 self created. There’s so much complexity in life and the cosmos it couldn’t have just self generated this complexity.
Like for example the bug that was recently found in the UK with gears that contain synchronized teeth in their legs. Gears are a mechanical device which takes an engineer to create. Especially gears that work flawlessly.
So you don't believe in any of that science-y stuff about how earth came to be, but you believe that your god wasn't created by anyone or anything and that your god created man from a a mound of clay and woman from a man's rib.

Um...okay.
Mike

Södertälje, Sweden

#180033 Oct 14, 2013
seems that christarded trolls have been voting down atheists and voting up christarded trolls

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#180034 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Science has some idea’s about how things started but nothing definite. For example there’s nothing definite on how all life started on the Earth. There’s only about 20 different theories. But I do understand what you’re saying.
I just don’t agree with any of it. To accept everything including the stars were self created would be similar saying the Boeing 757 self created. There’s so much complexity in life and the cosmos it couldn’t have just self generated this complexity.
Like for example the bug that was recently found in the UK with gears that contain synchronized teeth in their legs. Gears are a mechanical device which takes an engineer to create. Especially gears that work flawlessly.
Did you find a place to wind up that bug with a key?

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#180035 Oct 14, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave, what non-believers think everything came from nothing? I certainly don't. I think the most popular theory of everything coming from nothing is Creationism. I think that the quote "in the beginning God created...." implies that aside from this thing which the Bible calls "God" there was nothing, because I think that the writers at that time assumed that heaven and earth was all that there was. So before there was something there had to have been "nothing", except it leaves a big question as to how was there a god if there was nothing. A god existing would not be nothing, assuming it were true.
I highly suspect that there has always been existence in some form and in some place, but the parts of that which man is now aware of, took their present form and state in more recent billions of years. What that came from was already in existence, but what that existence looked like, we do not yet have a clue.
With the massive amounts of knowledge we have today of the makeup of things that we see, and also forces that we can test for, but do not have a physical appearance, such as gravity, we can explain and understand better how "things" came about, whereas back 2000 to 4000 years ago, man had no knowledge of any of the information that we have tested and proved today, so creating a magical means for things coming into being was a way of filling a gap in their thinking. Better to say that an invisible force, or being, did it than to just never have a clue.
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Heaven is what you can see. Our universe.

God was pre-existing.

God created the universe and the earth.

Sounds like the BBT to me.

We can't see past our universe. We are in bottle or balloon, so to speak. God has been known to visit the area, but is unlikely to live in it.

Surely there is something beyond what we can see if it made us.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#180036 Oct 14, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
? say what?, a search on google for “sturthiform” turns up:
http://www.google.co.uk/#q=sturthiform
Did you mean:
Stratiform - structform - struts form -sturt farm
No results containing all your search terms were found.
Your search - sturthiform - did not match any documents.
Suggestions:
Make sure that all words are spelled correctly.
Try different keywords.
Try more general keywords.
I have another suggestion, try speaking in one of the languages of earth
And wow have you used a dictionary lately? Perhaps you should have used one for your previous attempt at a big word.
P.S. your guess is a guess (very christian of you) and it’s wrong however in the same vein, you want to tell us about your problem with obesity?
Perhaps "Struthiform".
"Ostrich-like."

Since: Jul 10

Location hidden

#180037 Oct 14, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't come out and say it often, but I think atheism is a personal short coming. Mental illness is their perception. I take it as a compliment when they say it. You have to realize this is a sort so negative, they accuse a majority of people throughout history of lying, and many of those people are great people. Jesus Christ while it could be fairly debated if he is or is not God, was an extraordinary person, worthy of praise. I do believe he was of God, but I believe we all are. When someone that puts down Jesus, puts you down too, that is flattering.
What so many people throughout history have done, and what believers continue to do, though, is to believe something they were taught, but which no living person has ever verified to be true, and they have continued to believe that because all men know that one day they will die, and they fear that if they do not believe, and if they do not teach those after them, to believe then what they are taught, which is that they will burn in hell, for eternity, will really happen, or if even they are not completely convinced that it will happen, they fall back on Pascal's Wager, of it being better to be safe than sorry, so they believe, in spite of any evidence of a rational reason to do so.

What all of them overlook, except those who have not had sufficient education to actually learn and understand these things, is that there is not now nor ever has been any evidence that anything talked about in the Bible about Jesus and God has ever been proved to be true, and also that many of the events and stories mentioned in the Bible have been verified to not have happened. Because no proof of all of the stories being fictional is still not the case, they rationalize in various ways (my denomination treated the proven falsehoods as myths or parables but still held onto the belief that Jesus did live and die for our sins, and that there really is a God, who came in the flesh as Jesus).

Very few, with a strong upbringing in Christianity, or Islam, for that matter, dare risk the consequences of "what if". I understand that, because I lived that for much of my life too, though I never believed completely that the way one conducted one's life did not matter, as long as one believed in Jesus and God, but rather I believed that Salvation depended on how one lived one's life in addition to believing in God.

Still, I never once ever had any even the tiniest bit of evidence of the real existence of such a God, though there were times in my life when circumstances or events made me want to believe God existed more than at other times. There was a lot of the life of the Church that I found very inspirational, and meaningful, but when I attended an Amway Conference once in a city in Ohio, I saw people reacting to speakers about Amway in much the same way the people react at the talk of some of the imposters who evangelize at big gatherings, or on TV. We human beings are a very emotional lot and are easily swayed especially if in a crowd of people of like mind.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#180038 Oct 14, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Heaven is what you can see. Our universe.
God was pre-existing.
God created the universe and the earth.
Sounds like the BBT to me.
We can't see past our universe. We are in bottle or balloon, so to speak. God has been known to visit the area, but is unlikely to live in it.
Surely there is something beyond what we can see if it made us.
Sounds like a hypothesis to me.
Now, show us some evidence this is possible.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#180039 Oct 14, 2013
boooots wrote:
<quoted text>Actually, I think I am still a young whippersnapper as long as I don't look in a mirror, or try to carry something that I did a lot when I was 32.:)
:-)

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

#180040 Oct 14, 2013
Eagle 12 wrote:
Actor Kirk Cameron and his move from Atheism.
19 Sep 2013 Written by Mark Ellis | Godreports.com
At age 17 he had it all. As Mike Seaver on the hit TV show Growing Pains, he became a teen heartthrob and was making $50,000 a week. Magazines like Tiger Beat featured him regularly on their covers. He traveled the world meeting famous people.
But in his pursuit of a young woman's affections, the girl's father made it clear that amid all his youthful fame and success, there was one thing he lacked – God.
"There's still something you don't have, Kirk," the man told a surprised Cameron. "You don't have the Lord."
"I don't believe in God and that's not something I'm interested in," he informed the dad, matter-of-factly. Cameron considered himself a "staunch" atheist, too intelligent to believe in fairytales.
When the girl's family invited him to attend church with them later, he went reluctantly. "I only went because the girl was really cute and I wanted to get to know her," he admits.
Sitting in a church pew for the first time brought an unexpected reaction. "This man stood up there with a Bible, which I thought was a dusty old book designed to take the fun out of your life," he recounts.
But the message grabbed Cameron's attention. "He explained that we were designed by God to know Him and love Him and obey Him and be in right relation with Him."
"But something separates us from God and that 'something' He calls sin. Sin is the selfish streak that runs deep through the heart of every person."
The pastor explained that sin manifests itself when people lie, steal, or dishonor their parents. It can show up when you put other things in your life in a more important position than God.
When he heard this last part, Cameron felt a sinking sensation in his heart. "I realized my dirty socks were more important to me than God."
As the pastor continued, he clearly stated the ramifications of sin. "God hates sin not only because it separates us from Him, but because it's wrong. God will punish sin and those who commit sin in a place called hell."
That seems really harsh, Cameron thought to himself.
But then the pastor offered good news, a way out of this dilemma. "God is also loving and compassionate and He's provided a way to be forgiven by sending His Son Jesus to die on a cross.
"Jesus died to pay the price for our sins. If we humble ourselves and turn from our sins and trust in what Jesus did, God will grant us forgiveness and everlasting life. He did this because of His great love for us."
As Cameron sat in the back of the church, a wave of guilt swept over him. "I knew I had sinned against God," he admitted. At the same time, the first pale gleams of faith stirred his soul.
"My heart was swelling with hope that that this amazing God who sees my sinful heart would be compassionate enough to take my punishment for me and forgive me."
Questions were swirling in Cameron's mind when he took his girlfriend home. Where did we come from? he wondered to himself. Where are we going when we die? Is there really a God in heaven?
http://i1246.photobucket.com/albums/gg601/sca...

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

NCAA Basketball Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 2 hr Grey Ghost 1,174,702
What role do you think humans play in global wa... 2 hr Earthling-1 3,223
UCLA FOOTBALL NOTEBOOK: Neuheisel says Prince w... (Sep '10) 5 hr Bruin For Life 28,761
Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision (Jan '08) 6 hr R C Honey 308,065
Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex ma... (Aug '10) Thu HitMan 201,321
Should child beauty pageants be banned? Jan 27 Pinoyboyguy 733
I got my loan from stephenloanhelp@hotmail.com (Jun '13) Jan 24 RICK SERVICE 32
More from around the web