Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.
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Eagle 12

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#179737
Oct 12, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Awe, you omitted this...
"If any man come to me, and HATE not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple".--Luke 14:26
NO SALE!
Hatred is not for me.
"Take from the church the miraculous, the supernatural, the incomprehensible, the unreasonable, the impossible, the unknowable, the absurd, and nothing but a vacuum remains."
R G Ingersoll
Thank you, this gives us a teaching opportunity for the unlearned and the ignorant infidel mindset.

To the followers of Christ the word “hate” is another term for setting priorities. Christ comes first in our hearts and everyone else comes latter. Remembering one of the ten commandments,“To honor thy Father and Mother,” supports this thought.

In Jesus own example he never “hated” his mother or his step father.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
The subject here is the word for hate, which is the Greek miseo. One Skeptic is typical of critics when he writes:
Most Christians feel obligated to soften the face meaning of the word 'hate' to something like 'love less than me,' even though the Greek word miseo means 'hate.'
In line with this comment, Skeptics will stress the meaning of the word "hate" and insist that the word must be read literally, and that Jesus is truly preaching hate. But in fact, the "softening" is correct to do -- and is perfectly in line with the context of the ancient world, and the Jewish culture in particular.
For a background on the use of extreme and hyperbolic language in the Bible, I direct the reader first to my foundational essay on this subject. Abraham Rihbany (The Syrian Christ, 98f) points to the use of "hate" in the Bible as an example of linguistic extreme in an Eastern culture. There is no word, he notes, for "like" in the Arabic tongue. "...[T]o us Orientals the only word which can express any cordial inclination of approval is 'love'." The word is used even of casual acquaintances. Extreme language is used to express even moderate relationships.
Luke 14:26 falls into a category of "extreme language," the language of absoluteness used to express a preference, and may refer to disattachment, indifference, or nonattachment without any feelings of revulsion involved. To seal this matter completely, let's look at some parallel materials which prove our point. The closest example comes from Genesis 29:30-1:
And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.
Here, "hated" is clearly used synonymously with one who is loved less. Let it be added that if Jacob hated Leah in a literal way, it is hardly believable that he would consent to take her as his wife at all.(See also Judges 14:16 and Deut. 21:15-17.)
Now here is another example from Jesus, Luke 16:13:
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Such extremes of feeling would be atypical, but the extremes are not meant to be taken literally; the point is that one master will get more dedicated labor than the other.
Now let's move into some secular works with the same sort of hyperbolic language. http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.htm...

Since: Sep 10

Los Angeles, CA

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#179738
Oct 12, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your view on the pressure on the Washington Redskins to change their name?
My view on the pressure, or on whether a name change is appropriate?

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#179739
Oct 12, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are very entertaining. Impersonating an intellectual and the mass of humanity, and as a personage worthy of any effort to try and convince of anything. You do it well.
A God given talent you have?
I don't hate you, I hate the faith based mental illness you suffer from. When you realise that lying about god isn't very smart or clever, you'll become atheist.

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#179740
Oct 12, 2013
 
Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you, this gives us a teaching opportunity for the unlearned and the ignorant infidel mindset.
To the followers of Christ the word “hate” is another term for setting priorities. Christ comes first in our hearts and everyone else comes latter. Remembering one of the ten commandments,“To honor thy Father and Mother,” supports this thought.
In Jesus own example he never “hated” his mother or his step father.
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
The subject here is the word for hate, which is the Greek miseo. One Skeptic is typical of critics when he writes:
Most Christians feel obligated to soften the face meaning of the word 'hate' to something like 'love less than me,' even though the Greek word miseo means 'hate.'
In line with this comment, Skeptics will stress the meaning of the word "hate" and insist that the word must be read literally, and that Jesus is truly preaching hate. But in fact, the "softening" is correct to do -- and is perfectly in line with the context of the ancient world, and the Jewish culture in particular.
For a background on the use of extreme and hyperbolic language in the Bible, I direct the reader first to my foundational essay on this subject. Abraham Rihbany (The Syrian Christ, 98f) points to the use of "hate" in the Bible as an example of linguistic extreme in an Eastern culture. There is no word, he notes, for "like" in the Arabic tongue. "...[T]o us Orientals the only word which can express any cordial inclination of approval is 'love'." The word is used even of casual acquaintances. Extreme language is used to express even moderate relationships.
Luke 14:26 falls into a category of "extreme language," the language of absoluteness used to express a preference, and may refer to disattachment, indifference, or nonattachment without any feelings of revulsion involved. To seal this matter completely, let's look at some parallel materials which prove our point. The closest example comes from Genesis 29:30-1:
And he went in also unto Rachel, and he loved also Rachel more than Leah, and served with him yet seven other years. And when the LORD saw that Leah was hated, he opened her womb: but Rachel was barren.
Here, "hated" is clearly used synonymously with one who is loved less. Let it be added that if Jacob hated Leah in a literal way, it is hardly believable that he would consent to take her as his wife at all.(See also Judges 14:16 and Deut. 21:15-17.)
Now here is another example from Jesus, Luke 16:13:
No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other.
Such extremes of feeling would be atypical, but the extremes are not meant to be taken literally; the point is that one master will get more dedicated labor than the other.
Now let's move into some secular works with the same sort of hyperbolic language. http://www.tektonics.org/gk/jesussayshate.htm...
Creationists - quick to talk, slow to prove.

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#179741
Oct 12, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't hate you, I hate the faith based mental illness you suffer from. When you realise that lying about god isn't very smart or clever, you'll become atheist.
Numbnuts, I was an atheist since 50 years ago insofar as Bible God goes. In the last 3 years being on here and watching idots such as yourself I turned agnostic with theistic leanings due to the technology of this physcial existence. There is no "faith" based belief whatsover. That is something you possess, not me.

I can tie all religions into a technological basis for being created. However, seeing the technology employed combined with modern physics leaves me with the conclusion we are machines, and not the lucky magically created thingies you see us as. Accidental gods of the universe. This is even after a death experience.

You are a stupid, pigheaded individual with emotional issues, desperately clinging to an absolute denial of something larger than yourself is what is really running your game, You are the other side of the fundie coin. Give it up, you ain't smart enough to be a god, nor is mankind. Glorified temporary robots with delusions of grandeur.

You are a crippled robot dependent on others to carry you on into whatever comes next. Failed product unless you can make some connections.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

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#179742
Oct 12, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not energy--that is magic bullshyt. So right at the beginning you start with the bullsht.
Proof of this "magic"? No?
The rest of your bull is dismissed unread.
Yesterday's magic is todays science. Until you have all the answers there will be magic. Bob I all ready know your comprehension skills will fail to understand that statement.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

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#179743
Oct 12, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I'm looking for just a bit more clarification here.
1.) Is there something or someone guiding this energy? Something or someone must guide this energy into a human body.
2.) If this energy is physically a part of the human body why can't it be detected by neuroscience?
3.) So it ONLY enters pregnant women? Can it enter a man? Do you think that someone having a dream validates your theory on souls?
4.) Who gets to decide which of us gets a soul? Someone has to left out since there is not enough energy for all intelligent beings? What if the people who do everything that is required to get a soul, but there is simply NOT enough energy to go around? Thanks for your answers
As previously stated, if you are interested, there are books written by Buddhist and New Age Authors. I don't think you have what it takes to read them. Just as I find some stuff you read to be boring, or not exact.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

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#179744
Oct 12, 2013
 

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I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
Sub-human... seriously???? lol
Yes, previously here I posted that I do find it possible that for the purpose of good for The Universe, that it is possible we are evolving into extinction. It is the way of nature.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

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#179745
Oct 12, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
With all due respect, that's a judgment that I'll make myself. My definition of Christian may vary from yours. Mine is an operational definition. I don't really care what you believe, just how you behave.
Good rebuttal, by the way.
<quoted text>
You didn't learn much from the Bush years, did you?
The difference between you and I is, I accept you for your word in regards to your choice of religion, beliefs or faith. As I have mentioned if your sort were to gain control, various theories would not e tolerated in a public forum as China, The former Soviet Union and North Korea has proven.

Your actual religious views does resemble an ice cream lover that insist the only flavors of ice cream are vanilla and chocolate. The Baskin Robbins is still out there, but you call Butter Pecan and other flavors vanilla, insisting Chocolate is the only sort to eat, and Baskin Robbins is a hideous place.

In a way you give Christian Fundamentalist more power than they would have without you. They do rally around your efforts.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

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#179746
Oct 12, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You think you know my political agenda after a half dozen posts over 24 hours, none political? I didn't know I had a political agenda. What do you think it is?
What's your political agenda, and how does it differ from mine?
The answers to your questions will vary in accordance to the ambitious person that gains control. Without the moral reflections religions offer, there will be no controlling the corruption of the wealthy abusing the less fortunate. The power of the populist would go unchallenged, and it won't have a moral code.

The Atheist here slay me with this idea, that there would no longer be positions that adults would not be able to exploit youths. You just won't hear about them because the media would not be permitted to report all. Atheist as anti-religion would have safe guards that would control the media, as it does in China.

To answer your question or statement, no I did not like George Bush, either one, but I would unquestionable vote for either of them over any atheist. Your own mind is not a free society, as I previously posted you only regard two possibilities of thoughts amongst the common masses. I see no need to give your sort a try out.
Eagle 12

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#179747
Oct 12, 2013
 

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Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
My view on the pressure, or on whether a name change is appropriate?
The issue of a name change and those applying pressure to do so.
Eagle 12

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#179748
Oct 12, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope!
Gods? Meh
However speaking of why...
“Organised religion is violent, irrational, intolerant, allied to racism, tribalism, and bigotry, invested in ignorance and hostile to free inquiry, contemptuous of women and coercive toward children.”
~Christopher Hitchens
I am reasonable and would like to join your cult... IF you can answer these two questions for me.
A) Provide evidence that your God is the only true God in a way that religions other than yours cannot do.
B) Provide evidence that your holy book is true in a way that religions other than yours cannot do with theirs.
Scripture?
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com
The "Word of God", far from being inerrant, has always been a work in progress.
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.--Exodus 33:23
Is the pot calling the kettle black?

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

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#179749
Oct 12, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you lie so blatantly?
Is that how you were educated?
Is that what you god tells you to do?
Is it because you are embarrassed that you have nothing else?
Or maybe even that you are so stupid that you don’t even realise how stupid you are? There is a name for that, nope not godbot but the Dunning Kruger effect.
I have NEVER said that I would reply to your every post.
I did say that just because you are a ignorant and ignore your obnoxious abuse of the dead does not mean I won’t go away until you can grow a set of balls and apologise for mocking and lying about the dead. The dead who gave their lives so that ignorant baffons like you can mock and lie about them.
Jeez, for even for a godbot you are such a pathetic wimp.
And of course more guesswork, FYI, my funeral will involve cremation, but perhaps you are will be one who will be worm meat, buried six foot under waiting for an imaginary miracle while you rot in peace.
You do greatly flatter me with your post. I wish it was true. I do my best, thank you.
Eagle 12

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#179750
Oct 12, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
All of these ignorant religious interpretations are invalid until you can prove them.
You have had thousands of years and your cult has failed. Give up your mental illness and learn how to be honest.
Proven only to ourselves. We don't have to prove anything to you my good maligned atheist friend.
Eagle 12

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#179751
Oct 12, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
The mental illness of faith is no excuse for lack of evidence.
Prove the god your cult sent you here to promote with evidence and you qualify for rational debate.
Faith and Atheism is not a mental illness. It is choice made by free people.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

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#179752
Oct 12, 2013
 

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ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you lie so blatantly?
Is that how you were educated?
Is that what you god tells you to do?
Is it because you are embarrassed that you have nothing else?
Or maybe even that you are so stupid that you don’t even realise how stupid you are? There is a name for that, nope not godbot but the Dunning Kruger effect.
I have NEVER said that I would reply to your every post.
I did say that just because you are a ignorant and ignore your obnoxious abuse of the dead does not mean I won’t go away until you can grow a set of balls and apologise for mocking and lying about the dead. The dead who gave their lives so that ignorant baffons like you can mock and lie about them.
Jeez, for even for a godbot you are such a pathetic wimp.
And of course more guesswork, FYI, my funeral will involve cremation, but perhaps you are will be one who will be worm meat, buried six foot under waiting for an imaginary miracle while you rot in peace.
OK in regards to the dead. Hey you will meet your own beliefs. You do know yourself. Yours and your mind is yours. You are 2/3s human. Enjoy this ONE, it's all you have. Perhaps like a male lion that never joins a pride. The lone wolf. If I was you I'd enjoy the sex and party, as I do as me.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#179753
Oct 12, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are inconsistent in your descriptions.
Now, this is on the right path.
"The heat doesn't exist in the bonds: it is the motion."
Which is what I have been saying. The motion of space being displaced.
No, it is NOT the vibration of space. It is the motion of the atoms *through* space in a cyclic fashion. There is a difference.
Your little quantum thingies. Those bonds vibrate space, sort of like guitar strings vibrate air. Those vibrations are your heat.
Simply wrong.
1. Space is not what is vibrating. Instead, the atoms are moving through space.
2. This vibration of individual molecules is NOT the main component of heat. The kinetic energy through space is.
As I have pointed out before, modern math physics has taken the whole, broken it down to tiny parts, andthen went south worshipping those tiny parts as the gods of the universe. They hit a brick wall and started working backwards.
No, we found the tiny parts and then understand the larger wholes in terms of those tiny parts. No brick wall.
Your own BBT says those atoms, and constituent parts thereof were formed after the expansion.
The expansion is still going on. So the atoms were formed *during* the expansion.
That whirlpool analogy I have used before. The compression of the universe causes a hard focusing of energy creating those nuclei. That is why they can be stripped down by other outside forces within the apparent closed system of the universe. That is also why those strong localized forces can be moved around by larger and much weaker forces.
Do you attempt to be coherent?
The universe was created from without, not within. That singularity was not something that popped out of nothing, it was a something energized to start a process. We do it all of the time in our technology.
Why do you think the singularity is anything like what happens when we start processes *within* the universe?
Thingies are results of processes, not the origination or first cause.
Causality has issues at this level.
Heat is your quantum carrier. It isn't the apparent particle generating those vibrations, but the vibration of space between them.
Again, simply wrong. Heat is a large scale description based in statistical mechanics. It isn't a 'quantum carrier', whatever *that* is supposed to mean.
Eagle 12

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#179754
Oct 12, 2013
 

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Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
;)
Two cannibals walking through the jungle meet on a path...
I need some help cooking, or advice.
What's the problem?
The last missionary was tough!
How did you cook it?
Oh you know, the usual get the water to boil, throw in a couple bay leaves. some vegetables...
What was the missionary wearing?
A kind of brown frock with white lace, Very little hair.
Ha ha !
I know what your problem is.
You're cooking it wrong!
Wait for it... ;)
Never boil a friar!
Two Atheist walking through a field together.

One fell into a deep hole and asked the other for help. The other replied,“help,” I don’t need no help, I didn’t fall into a hole.

“Robert Stevens”

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#179755
Oct 12, 2013
 

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Eagle 12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Faith and Atheism is not a mental illness. It is choice made by free people.
I don't come out and say it often, but I think atheism is a personal short coming. Mental illness is their perception. I take it as a compliment when they say it. You have to realize this is a sort so negative, they accuse a majority of people throughout history of lying, and many of those people are great people. Jesus Christ while it could be fairly debated if he is or is not God, was an extraordinary person, worthy of praise. I do believe he was of God, but I believe we all are. When someone that puts down Jesus, puts you down too, that is flattering.
Eagle 12

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#179756
Oct 12, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
ie: lie about god because you have no proof.
How many real friends do you have? I’m not trying to be mean here. I just want you to realize that you are preventing yourself from having peace. You are slowly killing yourself with this inward turmoil in your life.

You have this one life according to what you believe. Look how you’re spending it. You’re miserable and unhappy. I’m sorry you are not a better person because of Atheism. Some Atheist may be a peace with themselves but you are far from that.

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