Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 20 comments on the Jul 18, 2009, Webbunny tumblelog story titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#179648 Oct 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not really, Poly. You only need the language to read your Holy Mathematical Scriptures.
No, you need the language to have the precision to talk about the ideas sensibly.
Energy is a something "physical". All you are presenting are math equations. Energy is a fuel.
Velocity is also 'physical'. But it is calculated by dividing how far you move by how long it took. More accurately, velocity is the rate of change of position. And that is a mathematical relation. Acceleration is also 'physical', but it is calculated as the rate of change of velocity.

Energy is physical, but it is calculated by a variety of means, kinetic energy as 1/2*m*v^2 (in Newtonian physics), potential energy as the inverse gradient of the acting force, etc. If you don't have the mathematics, you can't see what is happening.
In the real physical world heat is generated when a load is placed upon a force. What has "energy", but has zero heat?
No, heat is generated when there is friction, which makes the molecules move more randomly. But a planet moving in orbit is also a 'load' acted upon by a 'force' that does not generate heat. And that planet has a kinetic and potential energy that add up to be conserved.
aiidan

Newton, MA

#179649 Oct 11, 2013
I used to get so stoned people thought I was Jesus
Bongo

Oceanside, NY

#179650 Oct 11, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
it hurts your cult...when you type.
I think not, members only.
Bongo

Oceanside, NY

#179651 Oct 11, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Please tell us when your religious lie have had enough exposure to the real world.
If a gift is offered to you and you refuse it , who does it belong to? Now get back to awiting your fate.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#179652 Oct 11, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, let's see, did you forget free will, man has the power to do whatever they want, if a human chooses to murder, is that God's fault?
For example, if you murdered someone, would you blame God for what YOU done, now WW2.
God has his reasons, I ask again, do you think a event as huge as that God will stop over night?
God has his reasons, now disease.
I would like to say humans put this on themselves. Gays, and yes gays, for sleeping together created mankind's worst disease, AIDs.
Now that's one of course man is looking for a cure which is out there somewhere, diseases like Cancer God allows to happen but doesn't make it happen, God made a medicine for every disease on this planet, but us, Humans decided they don't want to help the poor countries. God saved many babies but because humans refused to listing to God.
I think Humans are to blame for Earth's havoc, especially since they didn't want to follow God's instructions since Adam and Eve.
I repeated things so you atheists can see.
The only problem here is there is NO such thing as "free will" It is impossible for it to be free will when you MUST face the consequences. That is in complete conflict with the definition of *FREE* I hold a gun to your head and tell you that you have "free will" to give me your wallet or not, but if you don't I'll blow your brains out. This is exactly the same as the threat of eternal torment if you don't do as God wished. Free will means to GIVE or RECEIVE something without expectation of return.

Your problem isn't over with this illusion of free will. Your God is omnipotent, or so they say, he knows everything and can see what will happen inn the future. He can see exactly what you will be doing in the future, he can see the pathway you have taken. You come to a fork in the road, the future see's you taking the fork right, Gods see's that you have taken the right fork, there is NO way you could have possibly taken the left fork. You think you have exercised free will by taking the right fork but your pathway had already ben determined. Free will is an illusion, God knows the future and the pathways you will take, that is unless you are wiling to say that God CANNOT see the future, and CANNOT see what you will be doing in the future. I that case your God is NOT omnipotent and is therefor completely useless.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#179653 Oct 11, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you need the language to have the precision to talk about the ideas sensibly.
<quoted text>
Velocity is also 'physical'. But it is calculated by dividing how far you move by how long it took. More accurately, velocity is the rate of change of position. And that is a mathematical relation. Acceleration is also 'physical', but it is calculated as the rate of change of velocity.
Energy is physical, but it is calculated by a variety of means, kinetic energy as 1/2*m*v^2 (in Newtonian physics), potential energy as the inverse gradient of the acting force, etc. If you don't have the mathematics, you can't see what is happening.
<quoted text>
No, heat is generated when there is friction, which makes the molecules move more randomly. But a planet moving in orbit is also a 'load' acted upon by a 'force' that does not generate heat. And that planet has a kinetic and potential energy that add up to be conserved.
You don't need the mathematics to understand. You do need something like it to standardize some concepts. You are stuck in a mathematical abstraction thinking and lose sight of physics. Look at your references to calculations and such.

Friction is caused by molecules of two different objects trying to shear each other. Very, very small sawtoothy things pressed together by gravity or mechanical force, or even magnetically. The molecules aren't moving randomly, they are reacting according to the laws of physics which stresses their bonds and heat is generated. That is vibrations of the space surrounding them. You will also get heat generated by two charges displacing space around them. Your strong force and the motion is one example. Electric motors are another. Heat is transfered through the bondings of mass if present, the web of charges creating mass, or as light if not. This heat is your basic force, which is a vibration of the medium this universe was created in.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#179654 Oct 11, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> We're told this is a temporary condition and sweat of the brow is the rule. Kicked out of the garden. A test perhaps. The pupil can never be greater than the teacher. If man went to the moon its Gods doing, he made the man and gave him all ability.
You have made a POSITIVE CLAIMS HERE. That God made man. Any positive statement like this requires that you provide the support for such a claim. Positive claims require EVIDENCE, not heresay, or personal experiences, or anecdotal testimony, or the writings in an ancient book. None of these constitutes as evidence. Produce some verifiable, reliable, and scientific data that support you claim, otherwise admit it is simply what you chose to believe in. Arguments from ignorance don't count, as in "If it's so complex and I can't see any other possibility then GODDIDIT. And please don't make the stupid mistake most theists make by trying to put the burden of proof on the NEGATIVE position by asking me to prove God doesn't exist. The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the person making the positive claim as you have just done. "He made the man and gave him the ability." I'll be waiting for your evidence that God in fact made man.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#179655 Oct 11, 2013
Carchar King wrote

'I think Humans are to blame for Earth's havoc, especially since they didn't want to follow God's instructions since Adam and Eve."

I'm assuming that YOU follow Gods instructions right? So why haven't you taken your children t the edge of town and stoned them to death when they misbehaved? And why don't you keep slaves since God fully accepts that practice. You talk about Gods INSTRUCTIONS, how about the instructions he gives regarding slaves. he gives INSTRUCTIONS on how much you should pay for a slave, who can be a slave, and how to mark them as your property by holding their ear against a door and driving a spike through it.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#179656 Oct 11, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
Friction is caused by molecules of two different objects trying to shear each other. Very, very small sawtoothy things pressed together by gravity or mechanical force, or even magnetically.
So far, so good.
The molecules aren't moving randomly, they are reacting according to the laws of physics which stresses their bonds and heat is generated.
No, the heat *is* the randomness of the motion: how the size of the velocities and the directions are distributed. The heat doesn't exist in the bonds: it is the motion.
That is vibrations of the space surrounding them.
Wrong again. The vibrations of the molecules are in the distances between the molecules. In this situation, the space itself is constant.The molecules move, not the space.
You will also get heat generated by two charges displacing space around them.
No. You get heat when those charges make things move.
Your strong force and the motion is one example.
No.
Electric motors are another. Heat is transfered through the bondings of mass if present, the web of charges creating mass, or as light if not.
No. The heat in a motor is caused by the changing magnetic fields making the atoms move more.
This heat is your basic force,
Wrong again. Heat is not a force. if anything, it is an energy.
which is a vibration of the medium this universe was created in.
No, neither forces nor heat are 'vibrations of the medium this universe was created in'.

And we see now that *your* understanding is minimal. That is partly because of sloppiness in your concepts and partly because you don't grasp some basic facts. But both are helped by a little bit of math.

But you don't really want to understand: you want something that aligns with your intuitions, even if it is false.
Bongo

Amityville, NY

#179657 Oct 11, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>You have made a POSITIVE CLAIMS HERE. That God made man. Any positive statement like this requires that you provide the support for such a claim. Positive claims require EVIDENCE, not heresay, or personal experiences, or anecdotal testimony, or the writings in an ancient book. None of these constitutes as evidence. Produce some verifiable, reliable, and scientific data that support you claim, otherwise admit it is simply what you chose to believe in. Arguments from ignorance don't count, as in "If it's so complex and I can't see any other possibility then GODDIDIT. And please don't make the stupid mistake most theists make by trying to put the burden of proof on the NEGATIVE position by asking me to prove God doesn't exist. The burden of proof is ALWAYS on the person making the positive claim as you have just done. "He made the man and gave him the ability." I'll be waiting for your evidence that God in fact made man.
You know the deal blackbaboon, except a man be born again he cannot see, spiritual things are spiritually discerned. Its a gift, wise people seek it.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#179658 Oct 11, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> How much hate could I have? God already foretold what happens to reprobates and unbelievers. don't hate the messenger because you hate the message.
The difference?

You **literally** get your rocks-off whenever you tell people they are going to be tortured forever.

This explains the ugly crusty stains all over your keyboard, as you one-finger out your ugly posts, your other hand being ... occupied.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#179659 Oct 11, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> fibber, one legged atheist lesbian female fibber
Until you can PROVE your god is real?

You are the liar, hatetheist.

Can you?

Can you PROVE your hate is justified?

No?

Interesting.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#179660 Oct 11, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
Sub-human... seriously???? lol
Indeed.

It is one of several ways True Believers™ use to "justify" their programs of murder, mass-killing and worse.

After all-- unbelievers are not really human, right?

Just animals.. right?

... meh.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#179661 Oct 11, 2013
Carchar king wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, let's see, did you forget free will, man has the power to do whatever they want, if a human chooses to murder, is that God's fault?
Absolutely. Unless... your god IS NOT IN CHARGE OF ANYTHING?

Then?

And and ONLY then?

Would your god be absolved of being COMPLACENT in the murder.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#179662 Oct 11, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
All of those describe me, Bongo. You didn't really think that toenail story was true did you? It's just a game. Two things: You left out vegan and when you call somebody a lesbian you don't really need to add the female.
Really? I cannot be a male lesbian?

Why not?

I really do prefer women....

:)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#179663 Oct 11, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Bob. Thanks. Good to see you as well. It's been a while.
It has.

Things up here in the Land Of The Stupid (rethugs), it looks like those idiots are finally realizing they simply don't have unlimited power...

.. and are capitulating.

It's funny: the ReThugs' are polling at LOWER than even when they tried to impeach Clinton.

If you can fathom that-- pretty much everyone blames them for the shutdown.

I so wish this was an election year-- they would all be out on their lazy parasitic backsides...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#179664 Oct 11, 2013
Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> You know the deal blackbaboon,
How Jesus of you: to belittle those you are jealous of.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#179665 Oct 11, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
So far, so good.
<quoted text>
No, the heat *is* the randomness of the motion: how the size of the velocities and the directions are distributed. The heat doesn't exist in the bonds: it is the motion.
<quoted text>
Wrong again. The vibrations of the molecules are in the distances between the molecules. In this situation, the space itself is constant.The molecules move, not the space.
<quoted text>
No. You get heat when those charges make things move.
<quoted text>
No.
<quoted text>
No. The heat in a motor is caused by the changing magnetic fields making the atoms move more.
<quoted text>
Wrong again. Heat is not a force. if anything, it is an energy.
<quoted text>
No, neither forces nor heat are 'vibrations of the medium this universe was created in'.
And we see now that *your* understanding is minimal. That is partly because of sloppiness in your concepts and partly because you don't grasp some basic facts. But both are helped by a little bit of math.
But you don't really want to understand: you want something that aligns with your intuitions, even if it is false.
You are inconsistent in your descriptions.

Now, this is on the right path.

"The heat doesn't exist in the bonds: it is the motion."

Which is what I have been saying. The motion of space being displaced. Your little quantum thingies. Those bonds vibrate space, sort of like guitar strings vibrate air. Those vibrations are your heat.

As I have pointed out before, modern math physics has taken the whole, broken it down to tiny parts, andthen went south worshipping those tiny parts as the gods of the universe. They hit a brick wall and started working backwards. Your own BBT says those atoms, and constituent parts thereof were formed after the expansion. That whirlpool analogy I have used before. The compression of the universe causes a hard focusing of energy creating those nuclei. That is why they can be stripped down by other outside forces within the apparent closed system of the universe. That is also why those strong localized forces can be moved around by larger and much weaker forces.

The universe was created from without, not within. That singularity was not something that popped out of nothing, it was a something energized to start a process. We do it all of the time in our technology.

Thingies are results of processes, not the origination or first cause.

Heat is your quantum carrier. It isn't the apparent particle generating those vibrations, but the vibration of space between them.
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#179666 Oct 11, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing. God doesn't exist.
The Atheist said to a group of farmers in the barbershop,“There ain’t no hell.”

Then one of the farmers stood up and pointed his finger at the Atheist and said,

“The hell there ain’t!”
Eagle 12

Troy, IL

#179667 Oct 11, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
You did not explain why there are 40,000 DIFFERENT flavors of "christian".
Why is that?
Each flavor claims to be THE ONE AND ONLY.
Yet? There are more than 40,000 and the number keeps going UP.
Why?
1 Kings 18:

20 So Ahab sent word throughout all Israel and assembled the prophets on Mount Carmel. 21 Elijah went before the people and said,“How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him.”
But the people said nothing.
22 Then Elijah said to them,“I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God.”
Then all the people said,“What you say is good.”
25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal,“Choose one of the bulls and prepare it first, since there are so many of you. Call on the name of your god, but do not light the fire.” 26 So they took the bull given them and prepared it.
Then they called on the name of Baal from morning till noon.“Baal, answer us!” they shouted. But there was no response; no one answered. And they danced around the altar they had made.
27 At noon Elijah began to taunt them.“Shout louder!” he said.“Surely he is a god! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened.” 28 So they shouted louder and slashed themselves with swords and spears, as was their custom, until their blood flowed. 29 Midday passed, and they continued their frantic prophesying until the time for the evening sacrifice. But there was no response, no one answered, no one paid attention.
30 Then Elijah said to all the people,“Come here to me.” They came to him, and he repaired the altar of the Lord, which had been torn down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, one for each of the tribes descended from Jacob, to whom the word of the Lord had come, saying,“Your name shall be Israel.” 32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of the Lord, and he dug a trench around it large enough to hold two seahs[a] of seed. 33 He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them,“Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”
34 “Do it again,” he said, and they did it again.
“Do it a third time,” he ordered, and they did it the third time. 35 The water ran down around the altar and even filled the trench.
36 At the time of sacrifice, the prophet Elijah stepped forward and prayed:“Lord, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel, let it be known today that you are God in Israel and that I am your servant and have done all these things at your command. 37 Answer me, Lord, answer me, so these people will know that you, Lord, are God, and that you are turning their hearts back again.”
38 Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.
39 When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried,“The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!”

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