Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177852 Sep 21, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>I think you hit the nail on the head. Real atheist do recognize exactly what you posted. As much as I do disagree with them, I do respect how well read they are. I admit it is possible a lesser educated rouge does fall into the frail, but in this case I do not think so.
Fallen human nature is egotistical and bigoted, the quality of atheists in here can rise no higher than the limits of the carnal mind.:-)

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#177853 Sep 21, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you present the idea that the ordered universe cannot have a designer?
Upon what basis do you make these claims?
Under a hopelessly fixed assumption which is not deterred by the facts.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#177854 Sep 21, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
I may not be here then.
If you talk to her, tell her River says hey.
Where are you going?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177855 Sep 21, 2013
DavidQuinn wrote:
Atheism requires no faith at all but I wish i had Jean-Paul sartre's attitude to religion, a man so thoroughly atheist he deemed the whole subject beneath his intelligence to consider. Simply religion is divisive and restricts us as a species, simple as that. Check out a book that's causing a bit of a buzz in the Uk called 2082 the chronicles of hope. On the website the 1st chapter for the 1st book is on there for free, there's a speech in there by an atheist politician that's genius
So his own conception of the might of his own intellect was the basis of his atheism?

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177856 Sep 21, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text>Under a hopelessly fixed assumption which is not deterred by the facts.
Why the assumption is fixed is the interesting question...:)

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177857 Sep 21, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue here is the suppression of truth, not the quality of the atheism.
Atheism by its nature is self refuting, the presupposition that you cannot allow God in the door is all the refutation one needs.
I don't agree that all atheist are sinister, however this group here is. There is a level of hatred here that without doubt needs help. Due to poor comprehension skills there is no hope for that help. They would actually need some form of schooling for help to start. America just can not afford to be that liberal of a country. As you go on with your conversation with them I think you will see what I mean.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177858 Sep 21, 2013
Ok in last post I forgot to post the word "they" need help.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#177859 Sep 21, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are you going?
She has Goodbye sanity on her title and earlier she had something about goodbye sobriety. Obviously she is depressed in my view. Probably alone. Sounds suicidal to me.

“God of War”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#177860 Sep 21, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would you present the idea that the ordered universe cannot have a designer?
Upon what basis do you make these claims?
I didn't say it cannot, but you cannot show that it does.
This says more than saying there is one.
Science reveals that all things are processes, but it hasn't revealed
a designer. It is a logical contradiction to suggest a designer you cannot reveal in any process discovered. Evolution explains how life became the way it is, through change over time. There is little to question , except when we go to the beginning. Exactly what caused life's origin is a mystery. But we can see where it began, and are nearly able to understand how it did happen.

These facts make the biblical creation account become a terrible attempt to explain life's origin. Primitive superstitious and ignorant in fact. We know man was not created by a god from a mud pie, and woman is not a clone from a rib bone, there was no garden of Eden where woman gave man a magic fruit recommended by a legged snake that resulted in god giving them skins to cover their nakedness. That's just plain crazy, and if it were true then where is this creator of men and animal skinner hiding out at now?
Where is the evidence of this thing that was capable of making Eden and growing fruit and building a gate guarded by a cherubim and flaming sword.

Where is this gate? Where is this cherubim?
They would have been the Anunnaki, where is the evidence of these beings? In short this is all mythology invented by superstitious primitive people who could not explain how life and the biosphere sprang from natural causes. Truly if there is a creator, it created conditions, and not specifics. The evidence is that these conditions became processes that created the Earth's biosphere that created life that evolved to what we see. All other explanations are mythological superstitious mumbo jumbo.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177861 Sep 21, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Under a hopelessly fixed assumption which is not deterred by the facts.
This is either the most under educated group of Atheist I have meet or they are posers. As previously noted, I do believe they believe in God, afterlife and soul, there goal is to have you not exercise your soul. Their believe in energy and the power of the mind is great, not no existent, as they pose themselves to be.

Since: Sep 08

Fowler, CO

#177862 Sep 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact is you cannot show nature has a designer.
Mechanism in biology is a different subject, your philosophical view only complicates any explanation. But they can be explained by causal evolution.
But crystallization is a example of a simple mechanism that has an ordered process than can happen, from simple laws of physics.
Planetary science shows us on larger scales how accretion and gravity build planets, no designer needed, but through a purely natural and mechanical process. Evolution shows us nature finds ways from a causal need and through causal mechanism it finds a way to refine a task.
You are so limited in your scientific vision.

Science does nothing but provide an explanation for the methodology of the assembly of this existence. That is all it can do from this end of the process.

Belief that it all came about out of random events, out of pre-existing stuff is purely a subjective religious belief.

Modern electronics proves there is a creator involved. We use the bipolarity of it to create devices, and even computational capabilities. You would like to believe that harnessing of energy is something, created devices of this universe, us, came up with all on our own.

Our technological ability has its origin in our own creation.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177863 Sep 21, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>I don't agree that all atheist are sinister, however this group here is. There is a level of hatred here that without doubt needs help. Due to poor comprehension skills there is no hope for that help. They would actually need some form of schooling for help to start. America just can not afford to be that liberal of a country. As you go on with your conversation with them I think you will see what I mean.
I am no stranger here, but education with the suppression of truth as its goal and a desire to reject God will create what we see here.

Only Go

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177864 Sep 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>I didn't say it cannot, but you cannot show that it does.
This says more than saying there is one.
Science reveals that all things are processes, but it hasn't revealed
a designer. It is a logical contradiction to suggest a designer you cannot reveal in any process discovered. Evolution explains how life became the way it is, through change over time. There is little to question , except when we go to the beginning. Exactly what caused life's origin is a mystery. But we can see where it began, and are nearly able to understand how it did happen.

These facts make the biblical creation account become a terrible attempt to explain life's origin. Primitive superstitious and ignorant in fact. We know man was not created by a god from a mud pie, and woman is not a clone from a rib bone, there was no garden of Eden where woman gave man a magic fruit recommended by a legged snake that resulted in god giving them skins to cover their nakedness. That's just plain crazy, and if it were true then where is this creator of men and animal skinner hiding out at now?
Where is the evidence of this thing that was capable of making Eden and growing fruit and building a gate guarded by a cherubim and flaming sword.

Where is this gate? Where is this cherubim?
They would have been the Anunnaki, where is the evidence of these beings? In short this is all mythology invented by superstitious primitive people who could not explain how life and the biosphere sprang from natural causes. Truly if there is a creator, it created conditions, and not specifics. The evidence is that these conditions became processes that created the Earth's biosphere that created life that evolved to what we see. All other explanations are mythological superstitious mumbo jumbo.
Your primary assumptions drive your beliefs, not the evidence.

You have already been given enough evidence so that you are without excuse by God Himself, both internally and externally, but you deny that because you want to be God.

In that you are not unique, you share the same problem as the rest if humanity.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177865 Sep 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>You are so limited in your scientific vision.

Science does nothing but provide an explanation for the methodology of the assembly of this existence. That is all it can do from this end of the process.

Belief that it all came about out of random events, out of pre-existing stuff is purely a subjective religious belief.

Modern electronics proves there is a creator involved. We use the bipolarity of it to create devices, and even computational capabilities. You would like to believe that harnessing of energy is something, created devices of this universe, us, came up with all on our own.

Our technological ability has its origin in our own creation.
Good point, if design does not need a designer then I see no reason why an iPhone 5 shouldn't form itself out if my old CD player, given the magic of time of course...

“God of War”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#177866 Sep 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are so limited in your scientific vision.
Science does nothing but provide an explanation for the methodology of the assembly of this existence. That is all it can do from this end of the process.
Belief that it all came about out of random events, out of pre-existing stuff is purely a subjective religious belief.
Modern electronics proves there is a creator involved. We use the bipolarity of it to create devices, and even computational capabilities. You would like to believe that harnessing of energy is something, created devices of this universe, us, came up with all on our own.
Our technological ability has its origin in our own creation.
I did not say random events did anything Dave.
Though random events do occur and are responsible for many things.
It is a purely random event when atoms decay, it is a process creating a new condition that spawns another process.
I will said conditions , set processes in motion IE: the fundamental forces and the supply of molecules created from them. Led to more and more processes, creating new conditions and new processes.
These became more and more complicated. But nature and the cosmos can be explained by natural conditions and processes.

Electronics is proof that nature created life that evolved into a discoverer and creator of things, using these conditions and processes , who can cleverly manipulate them together in designs beyond what nature can do. But it still isn't evidence we are a creation of a mythological being.

“God of War”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#177867 Sep 21, 2013
mtimber wrote:
<quoted text>
Your primary assumptions drive your beliefs, not the evidence.
You have already been given enough evidence so that you are without excuse by God Himself, both internally and externally, but you deny that because you want to be God.
In that you are not unique, you share the same problem as the rest if humanity.
Again you fail, I have no such belief's and have made no assumptions.
It is the empirical evidence that drives a scientific explanation.
Unfortunately the evidence does not support "your" beliefs.
Indeed it is all your belief and none of the evidence that drives your own beliefs further than the evidence allows.
It is "your belief" that a gear was created by design, and not rise from an evolutionary process that had the need of it.

Co-author Gregory Sutton, now at the University of Bristol, said: "We usually think of gears as something that we see in human-designed machinery, but we've found that that is only because we didn't look hard enough.

"These gears are not designed, they are evolved representing high-speed and precision machinery evolved for synchronisation in the animal world."

The gears are only found in juvenile insects and are lost as they pass into adulthood.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/sep/1...

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177868 Sep 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>I did not say random events did anything Dave.
Though random events do occur and are responsible for many things.
It is a purely random event when atoms decay, it is a process creating a new condition that spawns another process.
I will said conditions , set processes in motion IE: the fundamental forces and the supply of molecules created from them. Led to more and more processes, creating new conditions and new processes.
These became more and more complicated. But nature and the cosmos can be explained by natural conditions and processes.

Electronics is proof that nature created life that evolved into a discoverer and creator of things, using these conditions and processes , who can cleverly manipulate them together in designs beyond what nature can do. But it still isn't evidence we are a creation of a mythological being.
Yet the most complex machines you can see cannot be created because of your pre commitment to a denial of Gods existence at any cost.

Your need to deny Him is so strong, what you are really saying is you do not have a strong enough incentive to hand the throne of your life to your Creator.

You will hide behind anything, including the joke of evolution, to protect your throne.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#177869 Sep 21, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>Again you fail, I have no such belief's and have made no assumptions.
It is the empirical evidence that drives a scientific explanation.
Unfortunately the evidence does not support "your" beliefs.
Indeed it is all your belief and none of the evidence that drives your own beliefs further than the evidence allows.
It is "your belief" that a gear was created by design, and not rise from an evolutionary process that had the need of it.

Co-author Gregory Sutton, now at the University of Bristol, said: "We usually think of gears as something that we see in human-designed machinery, but we've found that that is only because we didn't look hard enough.

"These gears are not designed, they are evolved – representing high-speed and precision machinery evolved for synchronisation in the animal world."

The gears are only found in juvenile insects and are lost as they pass into adulthood.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/sep/1...
What do you use to gauge the evidence?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177870 Sep 21, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>That is a true statement. We are all slaves to our frame of mind. The difference between you and most other people is you have an overwhelming theme. Your bad comprehension skills are due to, the fact you can't break away from your hatred of religions that are based on Jesus. My opinion is if you were raised in an Atheist society, face the same order of events from atheist you faced from Christians, which would be possible. You would now be an atheist hater. Here in New Jersey we have many Eastern Europeans that are such. I could go to a local bar bring up Atheism or communism and it would cause a frenzy. I think they would physically attack you if you went rambling on. In your case this hatred has taken over your mind. What makes those upset Eastern Europeans more stable than you is, I would have to bring it up. I honestly don't see it as the topic of choice for them. Carpentry is.
You don't think that there is anything wrong with someone who would physically attack someone just for talking about something that they may not like, but you think there is something wrong with someone just simply not believing in a god?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177871 Sep 21, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>Not really. I think out of all fates of souls atheism offers the worse. As someone that believes you do design your own fate, with your faith, because the human mind is that powerful. I would rather suffer a drug addiction then be an atheist. I do understand Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, and other groups that do go out and recruit for their faith. Atheism should not be a religion that recruits. An effort to spread your thoughts and beliefs is a religious action. Every time and Atheist does this he proves he is a person of religion. An atheist that does not recruit, is every thing Atheist here have posted atheist are or are not. I see a recruiting Atheist as a cult member.
An effort to spread your thought and or beliefs is a human right and has nothing to do with religion. If I told you my favorite color is pink, that does not make that statement religious. You are being ridiculous. The only thing that atheism doesn't "offer" is an afterlife, and if you are so sick that you think that an afterlife is a deserved thing or should I say, since you believe the way you do because of personal gain, then it sounds to me like you are more selfish and self absorbed than intelligent or truth seeking.

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