Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#177489 Sep 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I have read the judges' comments on that case. They were rather interesting.
The gist of the comments was that, in order to ensue **equal** application of the law, then non-belief must also be included under the "religion" umbrella.
It was the opinion of the judges that the law **must** be applied equally, or else stricken from the books, and the only way to do that, is to treat atheism as a kind of "religion", for the **purpose** of **equal** treatment under the law.
A legal fiction-- something our legal system does all the time.
The easiest example is "corporation"--- it's a legal fiction to pretend the company is a "corpus" or body-- it's not, of course, it's a collection of things/people/assets/etc.
But it's useful under the law to pretend a corporation is a person.
A legal fiction.
Exactly, but what it was really saying is that a non religious person has the rights a religious person does to form a group. The only way to justify a simple basic human right was to cover non belief under the same law as belief.

This is much the same way cocaine was included under the narcotics laws already in place, but we know cocaine isn't a narcotic, it was easy to define it a narcotic under existing law.
Another legal maneuvering or as you said legal fiction to cover something under existing laws.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177490 Sep 16, 2013
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not his fault. He was obviously taught that Teh GOD created the Universe. Teh GOD said, "POOF" and there it was. During the first Super Nova Teh GOD said, "Hey, what just happened to my star?"
Teh GOD said, "Oh yeah, I work in mysterious ways".
BOOM goes the next star and Teh GOD says, "See?"
Secretly Teh GOD calls a board meeting.
"Jesus, why the hell are all of my stars exploding?"
Jesus says, meekly, "I think it's the hydrogen, Father, I mean Me. We didn't factor in the fission".
Teh GOD says, "Fishin? You mean if I had just given Adam a fishin pole everything would be OK?"
I love how you wrote their GOD in the same image as his creators/worshipers.

LOL!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177491 Sep 16, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Exactly, but what it was really saying is that a non religious person has the rights a religious person does to form a group. The only way to justify a simple basic human right was to cover non belief under the same law as belief.

This is much the same way cocaine was included under the narcotics laws already in place, but we know cocaine isn't a narcotic, it was easy to define it a narcotic under existing law.
Another legal maneuvering or as you said legal fiction to cover something under existing laws.
Exactly-- either the prison officials had to eliminate all groups, or else they had to include non-religious people too.

The law must be blind with respect to religion/no-religion, or else it is unjust.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177492 Sep 16, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you get the comically from?
I find it comical when people think they are getting to someone when in all actuality they have no point. Dave here thinks he has some sort of special powers. I personally think he's bipolar. One minute he can't stop talking about death and hell, and the next minute he's talking about loving woman's asses. However, you're right... he in general is not funny at all, he's actually quite depressing.
christINSANITY is EVIL

Windsor, Canada

#177493 Sep 16, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
My answer is and has been, it is case by case. I honestly don't get why you'd want to have this disagreement with me. In the case of the Atheist I read here. They are a religious group, with fundamentalist traits. If you read there post, I am amazed you don't see it. atheist with no religious faith wouldn't see any need to compete with other's idea. If you too frequently ponder The Universe kick started on it's own with no intelligent design you have a belief. Without gathering or conversation about your belief, you are a non-religious person. More so, if you could not label your belief, and you did not care to start gatherings or discussions about it, or one better, you were against having your belief labeled. Mr Dawkins himself find the claims of these bloggers here wrong. And I don't think he says that for others to have a Tax exemption.
learn some real science so you wont look so ignorant

http://youtu.be/hd-076rsC68

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177494 Sep 16, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
My answer is and has been, it is case by case. I honestly don't get why you'd want to have this disagreement with me. In the case of the Atheist I read here. They are a religious group, with fundamentalist traits. If you read there post, I am amazed you don't see it. atheist with no religious faith wouldn't see any need to compete with other's idea. If you too frequently ponder The Universe kick started on it's own with no intelligent design you have a belief. Without gathering or conversation about your belief, you are a non-religious person. More so, if you could not label your belief, and you did not care to start gatherings or discussions about it, or one better, you were against having your belief labeled. Mr Dawkins himself find the claims of these bloggers here wrong. And I don't think he says that for others to have a Tax exemption.
I have no choice, but to disagree with you. I am an atheist. I do not believe in a god, but if science ever gives me a shred of evidence that would say otherwise then I would gladly agree with you. However, there are too many different ideas on creation, and I will not lie and say that I know for sure which one is fact. I do not believe in a super power or higher power (deity) so therefore by definition I do not have a "religion". I do not have a need to attend an atheist "church" because I do not need a building to discuss anything that has to do with my thoughts on creation. Anytime you have a different idea than someone else then technically you are competing with the other persons idea because you both think that you are correct at the basis of the conversation that may be happening.

I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to discuss their beliefs. The biggest problem that I have is that the religious people on here want to push that word "belief" as though it is some sort of religious word. I have no reason to believe that science has got the correct theory as to how the earth was created so far. Science has yet to fail us in any important endeavor to date. I disagree with many things in the bible, and I can't stand for someone to say that it is the correct book written by the correct god because that is a false statement and also one that cannot be proven. I also do not understand the need for religious people to come on here and talk about Richard Dawkins as though he is some sort of end all be all of atheism. He is not the "leader" of atheists... he is simply someone who speaks his mind in a very public and brash manner. This does not however mean that every atheist agrees with everything he says. He is just another person in this world who is attempting to get people to think instead of follow what everyone else says.
followerofSatan

Chicago, IL

#177495 Sep 16, 2013
christINSANITY is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
learn some real science so you wont look so ignorant
http://youtu.be/hd-076rsC68
thanks for posting that... nice presentation....

(funny how everything works out without supernatural beings)
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#177496 Sep 16, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I find it comical when people think they are getting to someone when in all actuality they have no point. Dave here thinks he has some sort of special powers. I personally think he's bipolar. One minute he can't stop talking about death and hell, and the next minute he's talking about loving woman's asses. However, you're right... he in general is not funny at all, he's actually quite depressing.
Personally I think the better word to describe him would be pathetic.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177497 Sep 16, 2013
*I have no reason not to believe that science has got the correct theory as to how the earth was created so far.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177499 Sep 16, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Personally I think the better word to describe him would be pathetic.
You're right... he really is.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177500 Sep 16, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no choice, but to disagree with you. I am an atheist. I do not believe in a god, but if science ever gives me a shred of evidence that would say otherwise then I would gladly agree with you. However, there are too many different ideas on creation, and I will not lie and say that I know for sure which one is fact. I do not believe in a super power or higher power (deity) so therefore by definition I do not have a "religion". I do not have a need to attend an atheist "church" because I do not need a building to discuss anything that has to do with my thoughts on creation. Anytime you have a different idea than someone else then technically you are competing with the other persons idea because you both think that you are correct at the basis of the conversation that may be happening.
I don't see anything wrong with someone wanting to discuss their beliefs. The biggest problem that I have is that the religious people on here want to push that word "belief" as though it is some sort of religious word. I have no reason to believe that science has got the correct theory as to how the earth was created so far. Science has yet to fail us in any important endeavor to date. I disagree with many things in the bible, and I can't stand for someone to say that it is the correct book written by the correct god because that is a false statement and also one that cannot be proven. I also do not understand the need for religious people to come on here and talk about Richard Dawkins as though he is some sort of end all be all of atheism. He is not the "leader" of atheists... he is simply someone who speaks his mind in a very public and brash manner. This does not however mean that every atheist agrees with everything he says. He is just another person in this world who is attempting to get people to think instead of follow what everyone else says.
Definition of belief (n)

Bing Dictionary

be·lief

[ bi l&#63484;f ]

1.acceptance of truth of something: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real, often underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty
2.trust: confidence that somebody or something is good or will be effective
3.something that somebody believes in: a statement, principle, or doctrine that a person or group accepts as true

This is all true 3 for 3. For the very simple reason. You can not prove there was no creator of The Universe, even harder to prove no creator of Earth or humanity. With the limits of what is humanity on Earth in regards to time. We are now starting to put together plans make Mars habitable. Your claims of facts are just what you believe, and when get emotional about it and support them as you do, as mentioned above in definition #1. You don't feel the yearn though? If you do, you will move on, if not. You really should find better hobbies than this, your time is very limited.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#177501 Sep 16, 2013
Verbam wrote:
<quoted text>
Sounds gay to me.
So you admit to being gay, then?

Okay. I have no problem with that at all.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177502 Sep 16, 2013
christINSANITY is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
learn some real science so you wont look so ignorant
http://youtu.be/hd-076rsC68
Thank you I didn't watch it all but the Earth and humanity is just too many miracles. I'd go into details but you just see things as you do.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177503 Sep 16, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
your troll is showing.
No, you guys do have very bad comprehension skills. I think in part it's because you life in a make believe scenario.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177504 Sep 16, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you also believe that all Muslims are terrorists?
This is in response to David Nelson being critical of the Atheist here in this discussion. I think it is nice of us, not to place these atheist with atheist we meet, or other atheist. We are being fair with those we meet taking them for their word instead of treating them like these dishonest meatballs here. It would be wrong of use to assume all atheist have the reading comprehension of these pin heads, and just babble on pointlessly.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177506 Sep 16, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Definition of belief (n)
Bing Dictionary
be·lief
[ bi l&#63484;f ]
1.acceptance of truth of something: acceptance by the mind that something is true or real, often underpinned by an emotional or spiritual sense of certainty
2.trust: confidence that somebody or something is good or will be effective
3.something that somebody believes in: a statement, principle, or doctrine that a person or group accepts as true
This is all true 3 for 3. For the very simple reason. You can not prove there was no creator of The Universe, even harder to prove no creator of Earth or humanity. With the limits of what is humanity on Earth in regards to time. We are now starting to put together plans make Mars habitable. Your claims of facts are just what you believe, and when get emotional about it and support them as you do, as mentioned above in definition #1. You don't feel the yearn though? If you do, you will move on, if not. You really should find better hobbies than this, your time is very limited.
I don't disagree with the definition of belief. I believe in and trust science, but I do not worship it. I know that science doesn't have all of the answers, but I do trust that the answers that they do not have, they will get in time. As I said, science has yet to fail us on many many important things, and I have no reason to not put my trust in what they find and accomplish. The things that I claim to be facts are indeed facts.

I don't understand why someone wants to fight with what science has tried and tested and came to a positive conclusion. When it is put in front of you in every detail, why do you argue it? This is not just word of mouth...these are things that have been tested and proven correct. Science has proven that the big bang did occur for a fact... now they are looking for answers as to what caused that to happen, but at no time has there ever been any evidence of a higher power being involved so I cannot, and will not say that a god exists. It would be a lie for me to do so.

I keep this as a hobby because I enjoy talking to people who are of a like mind on this kind of topic, and on occasion I also enjoy a good debate whether I am watching or involved in one. I am confused as to why you would tell me that I need to get a new hobby, but you have this as a hobby yourself...???

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#177507 Sep 16, 2013
Verbam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll admit that you sound gay …. so you need to stay away from decent people.
Are you implying he should hang out with indecent people?
Maybe you can clue us in where to find these people at.
Or maybe you want to hang out with him because you're indecent?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#177508 Sep 16, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
This is in response to David Nelson being critical of the Atheist here in this discussion. I think it is nice of us, not to place these atheist with atheist we meet, or other atheist. We are being fair with those we meet taking them for their word instead of treating them like these dishonest meatballs here. It would be wrong of use to assume all atheist have the reading comprehension of these pin heads, and just babble on pointlessly.
I think that it's wrong of you to assume that all of us are as extreme as some of the atheists are on here, however I offer you the same courtesy when I am speaking of people of a religious nature. I don't think you are all extreme in nature and I do not try to claim that you are. If you are polite to me...I am usually polite as well.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#177510 Sep 16, 2013
Verbam wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course. Birds of a feather flock together.
Nice to know, since you're hanging with us in here.
But I'm decent and straight, so you'd be the only indecent gay.
Also I'm not a bird, but what kind of bird are you?
A chicken? lol

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#177511 Sep 16, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't disagree with the definition of belief. I believe in and trust science, but I do not worship it. I know that science doesn't have all of the answers, but I do trust that the answers that they do not have, they will get in time. As I said, science has yet to fail us on many many important things, and I have no reason to not put my trust in what they find and accomplish. The things that I claim to be facts are indeed facts.
I don't understand why someone wants to fight with what science has tried and tested and came to a positive conclusion. When it is put in front of you in every detail, why do you argue it? This is not just word of mouth...these are things that have been tested and proven correct. Science has proven that the big bang did occur for a fact... now they are looking for answers as to what caused that to happen, but at no time has there ever been any evidence of a higher power being involved so I cannot, and will not say that a god exists. It would be a lie for me to do so.
I keep this as a hobby because I enjoy talking to people who are of a like mind on this kind of topic, and on occasion I also enjoy a good debate whether I am watching or involved in one. I am confused as to why you would tell me that I need to get a new hobby, but you have this as a hobby yourself...???
Until you could prove it, it is a belief with faith, not a fact. I don't argue, I know neither of us could prove to the other their belief. The line was used in so many Turner Classic Movies, and please don't ask me to name them "A true agnostic is hard to find." That and a atheist, that does not care enough to address us here. Are the exceptions of people without faith or belief. In regards to this hobby. Your soulless time is too limited. I am sorry to read you don't yearn. Perhaps it is like exercise. If you ignore working on a muscle it could go away. I have read this theory. Are you familiar with alternate theories or do you pretend for purposes of jargon. You select your course due to your purpose. To feel the need to spread your belief, and tell me it is not a religion. That is devious.

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