Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258470 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175641 Aug 27, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>I suppose somewhere in this terrible thought out post there is a point, although I'd challenge anyone to find it. "blow hards" "jerkoffs" something about a fat and ugly guy from England........You might to well to get off your fat ass and supply the name of the person you're assassinating. Here try this.....Think about what you want to say........try and be as concise and as clear as possible. Think about the point you are trying to make. If there are names and places involved, make sure you know the correct spelling for them.......Now, after all of that is internalized, go ahead and put down your thoughts. Glad I could help. In doing this, you'll look much less.......ok, stupid.
He was a publicity whore, and I prefer not recall his name. I forgot to mention how pale he was. He was too ugly for American TV, for sure. Maybe one day I'll watch his silly, pretending t be a ugly pale assed genius that drank like Dean Martin pretended to drink. He was a waste and proud o be one, and obnoxious about it. I will recall him as he requested me to recall him, but I won't bother looking his name up.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175642 Aug 27, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
1. That's a nonsensical sentence. How can the objective be abused?
2. Christianity has no access to objectivity or objective truth. It's entirely subjective, interpreted subjectively and changes throughout history to suit contemporary culture(s).
<quoted text>
1. Atheism is disbelief in deities, based on available evidence and subjective reasoning.
2. What you label Darwinism is the framework theory for all biological sciences. You cannot get more objective than science, despite science being unable to be completely objective.
<quoted text>
Throughout Western history, the vast, vast majority of slave owners were Christian and used the Bible to support their slavery.
You are being selective, as usual.
<quoted text>
1. The argument from analogy. It goes like this "I'm human. I feel. I enjoy freedom and would not want to be a slave. Other people are human, they are like me. So it is immoral to make them slaves."
2. The belief that, as social and thinking beings, we should seek to minimize suffering and maximize happiness. Slavery is suffering, therefore it is immoral.
2a. The belief that, as social and thinking beings, we should seek to maximize human potential. Slavery destroys human potential and therefore it is immoral.
3. Societally agreed upon declarations of human rights. These prohibit slavery - again, for the betterment of humankind.
<quoted text>
That's senseless. Your Bible supports slavery just as easily as it can be interpreted otherwise. In fact, the OT deity forces people into slavery.
<quoted text>
Comparing real slavery to atheism is utter trash thinking. Slavery has nothing to do with atheism. The greatest slavers in Western history were Christians.
<quoted text>
Same as I presented above. You don't seem to understand where morality comes from. It comes from the social. The basis for all human morality is preservation of civil society - allowing people to get along in larger than kin groups. Religion pretends otherwise, but you simply place imagined fictions overtop of normal human morality - and often twist human morality when it suits your religious leaders.
<quoted text>
No. You are here failing to understand what "fit" means. You seem to be using it as "strong" or "might over weak" etc. That's false. Fit specifically refers to successful alleles (genes). Any gene that enjoys many copies in a genome is fit.
Morality, in social animals, especially intelligent ones with extremely high populations, is the "fittest." Our largest struggle right now is getting along with other cultures and accepting difference - that's something religions do very poorly at.
You believers constantly express that you have the "one, true reality" and that everyone who doesn't share your views is wrong. That won't work in our current time - there's too many people with so many different ways of understanding reality. You're going to have to change and accept others for who they are.
They're not trying to be like you.
You take BS way too seriously.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#175643 Aug 27, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You're just like a killer klown from outer space.
just call me UFO

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175645 Aug 27, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>Then why do you sell "atheist" t-shirts if it's not a "cause", Bob?
Stalking post reported.

I do not sell T-shirts-- you have me confused with someone else.

Seriously, are you really this stupid?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175646 Aug 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Christianity can be abused because there is ...
NO GOD THAT CAN OR WILL STOP THE ABUSE.

That is correct-- are you finally getting it yet?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175647 Aug 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you please read what you wrote. You have to be joking. I'll admit you have non fundamentalist atheist, in which, for them all the above is true. I'll give a longer response when I have more time. But are you serious?
Nope. I'm not joking. There **are** non-religious philosophies out there.

Secular Humanism is one.

Non-theistic Buddhism is another.

Non-theistic Judaism is still another.

Within the church called Universal Unitarianism? Atheists are welcomed as valid and valuable persons within the congregation. In fact, in my local atheist group, many attend a local UU church.

The above **are** examples of causes, creeds, philosophies, world-views, etc.

Athiesm itself? Is not:

Atheism is simply what's left when you REMOVE ALL FAITH IN GODS.
Atheism is not a cause.
Atheism is not a movement.
Atheism is not a government position.
Atheism is not a cult.
Atheism is not a worldview.
Atheism is just no faith in gods-- that's it.
All your "examples"? Are of **other** things-- not ATHEISM.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175648 Aug 27, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>Yes he is serious.. Bob is as nutty as the out-house RAT...
Hate speech reported. You are one hate-filled example of a Genuine Christian™.

If your Jesus had been real? I wonder what he'd have said to you about all that hate you show here ...

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#175649 Aug 27, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Hate speech reported. You are one hate-filled example of a Genuine Christian™.
If your Jesus had been real? I wonder what he'd have said to you about all that hate you show here ...
you're the GRAND POOBAH of hate BOB

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#175650 Aug 27, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
1. That's a nonsensical sentence. How can the objective be abused?
If you knew anything about the subject at hand you would know it makes complete sense. This is what i wrote.
Christianity can be abused because there is an objective basis to do a comparison.
In Christianity the Old is interpreted through the lens of the New. That is how we know the Salem witch Trials were objectively wrong. They used the Old exclusive from the New.(In part) If you want a summary the Apostles Creed will do.
2. Christianity has no access to objectivity or objective truth.
It has Jesus who claims to be Truth. That is its source of objectivity. Its proof card is bodily resurrection. Your statement is nothing more than dissenting opinion. That does not make your statement objectively true.
1. Atheism is disbelief in deities, based on available evidence and subjective reasoning.
That is your excuse. The real reason has to do with hostility towards God depicted in the Bible and the Bible itself. That is why non believers rant about slavery which is nothing more than a means to an end. The real foe is the Bible and God depicted. Slavery is used as an excuse. They are selective. They have no objective basis to condemn slavery. If there is no God and no judgement then slavery is simply a means to an end and is just as valid as not having slaves. It is simply option 1 or 2. Slavery conforms with the laws of nature where the strong dominate the weak. If there is no God then slavery is a valid option which conforms with nature.
xianity is EVIL

Wheatley, Canada

#175652 Aug 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
OK agreed, but could we stick to this message tread? "Atheism requires as much faith as religion?" The answer No question. You could type your great essay if it makes you feel better. It just can not be proven that there was NO CREATOR. s.
DEFINE Creator then well see,,

Claims that atheists have faith just like religious ,theists commit the fallacy of equivocation and that's why atheists dispute it.
Everyone believes some things on meager or inadequate evidence, but atheists don't disbelieve in gods on "faith" in the sense of not having any evidence whatsoever.
The sort of "faith" which apologists try to bring in here is usually just belief that falls short of absolute certainty, a confidence based on past performance. This is not "the substance of things hoped or" or "evidence of things unseen."
the moral virtue of Christian faith depends entirely on the Christian god existing.
If no gods exist, there is nothing virtuous about trusting in any gods and there is nothing immoral about not trusting in any gods.
In a godless universe, atheism isn't a vice or sin because there are no gods to whom we owe any allegiance or trust.
Since faith as belief without evidence is neither legitimate nor a moral issue, we come back to the obligation of believers to provide sound reasons to think their god exists. In the absence of such reasons, atheists' disbelief in gods is neither intellectually nor morally problematic.

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#175653 Aug 27, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
Throughout Western history, the vast, vast majority of slave owners were Christian and used the Bible to support their slavery.
You are being selective, as usual.
I don't know how accurate that is or what you consider Christian. Some consider Hitler a Christian because he was brought up with a Catholic influence. For now we can assume that is true.

http://www.ushistory.org/us/27f.asp
Defenders of slavery argued that slavery had existed throughout history and was the natural state of mankind. The Greeks had slaves, the Romans had slaves, and the English had slavery until very recently.

Defenders of slavery noted that in the Bible, Abraham had slaves. They point to the Ten Commandments, noting that "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's house,... nor his manservant, nor his maidservant." In the New Testament, Paul returned a runaway slave, Philemon, to his master, and, although slavery was widespread throughout the Roman world, Jesus never spoke out against it.

Defenders of slavery turned to the courts, who had ruled, with the Dred Scott Decision, that all blacks — not just slaves — had no legal standing as persons in our courts — they were property, and the Constitution protected slave-holders' rights to their property.
Notice the Souths defense presupposes the humane treatment of slaves, had historical precedent and the approval of the Secular Supreme Court. In other words it was legal.
If you believe the Bible supports slavery then it is you who are in bed with southern slave owners. It is you who find common ground with them. If the Bible support slavery then,

1) Why are the Israelites liberated from Egyptian slavery in Exodus?

2) Why did Elisha help the widow liberate her two children from debt slavery in 2 Kings 4?

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#175654 Aug 27, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
1. The argument from analogy. It goes like this "I'm human. I feel. I enjoy freedom and would not want to be a slave. Other people are human, they are like me. So it is immoral to make them slaves."
2. The belief that, as social and thinking beings, we should seek to minimize suffering and maximize happiness. Slavery is suffering, therefore it is immoral.
2a. The belief that, as social and thinking beings, we should seek to maximize human potential. Slavery destroys human potential and therefore it is immoral.
Yes they sound fine but if there is no God then certain groups could rationally be considered inferior for whatever reason. They could be used as slaves, sold as property or killed so the superior races would not be corrupted. Slavery under them circumstances could be considered an act of mercy. All this has historical precedent. It was legal. It conforms with the laws of nature and seems to be the natural state of man. If there is no God and no judgement then this position is equally valid to yours.
3. Societally agreed upon declarations of human rights. These prohibit slavery - again, for the betterment of humankind.
Yes but it is not enforced or if it is it is selective which suggests favoritism. These ''feel good'' regulations (?) is as useful as tits on a tomcat. At best they are impotent.
In fact, the OT deity forces people into slavery.
Like human governments forces people into prison! Slavery depicted is a result of disobedience to God. In other words we bring it on ourselves and by extension our children. That is what it teaches. I do not see an argument from Scripture. More of a emotional reaction.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175656 Aug 27, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>atheism is a movement!!! I just got off the pot it was a double flush
Genius! This guy I too much, he actually post details of what is an atheist movement. He did leave a lot out. But still, displays the movement. Ok part of it. In the same post he says "there is no Atheist movement. But you are a genius, you nail it right in the head how the movement should be treated. Excellent post.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175657 Aug 27, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
DEFINE Creator then well see,,
Claims that atheists have faith just like religious ,theists commit the fallacy of equivocation and that's why atheists dispute it.
Everyone believes some things on meager or inadequate evidence, but atheists don't disbelieve in gods on "faith" in the sense of not having any evidence whatsoever.
The sort of "faith" which apologists try to bring in here is usually just belief that falls short of absolute certainty, a confidence based on past performance. This is not "the substance of things hoped or" or "evidence of things unseen."
the moral virtue of Christian faith depends entirely on the Christian god existing.
If no gods exist, there is nothing virtuous about trusting in any gods and there is nothing immoral about not trusting in any gods.
In a godless universe, atheism isn't a vice or sin because there are no gods to whom we owe any allegiance or trust.
Since faith as belief without evidence is neither legitimate nor a moral issue, we come back to the obligation of believers to provide sound reasons to think their god exists. In the absence of such reasons, atheists' disbelief in gods is neither intellectually nor morally problematic.
Ok please read what you posted. 1st, I offended you by posting you have no soul. If you have no belief in God how in the world is that an offensive statement. This post really has me thinking you are not an Atheist or atheist. If atheism was the primary belief, ok I'll play your silly game. What most people believed, would you doubt them. I think so. In many cases, ok maybe not you, but....

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#175658 Aug 27, 2013
havent forgotten wrote:
interesting reply to a true believer type. I think there is a specific passage in the NT - probably from Saul/Paul regarding "wives obey your husbands, slaves obey your masters." I would place more emphasis on kindness to living beings, rather than just on mankind, however. I think some animals are better creatures than some humans, and would consider it more evil to kill a good animal than to kill a bad human being. <quoted text>
Then you, sir or madam, are not a species-ist.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#175659 Aug 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
It was answering the statement you made. And I stand by it and most likely would have to repeat it as you repeat the cause of the effect.
Yes, well, it didn't make any sense to me.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175660 Aug 27, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
DEFINE Creator then well see,,
Claims that atheists have faith just like religious ,theists commit the fallacy of equivocation and that's why atheists dispute it.
Everyone believes some things on meager or inadequate evidence, but atheists don't disbelieve in gods on "faith" in the sense of not having any evidence whatsoever.
The sort of "faith" which apologists try to bring in here is usually just belief that falls short of absolute certainty, a confidence based on past performance. This is not "the substance of things hoped or" or "evidence of things unseen."
the moral virtue of Christian faith depends entirely on the Christian god existing.
If no gods exist, there is nothing virtuous about trusting in any gods and there is nothing immoral about not trusting in any gods.
In a godless universe, atheism isn't a vice or sin because there are no gods to whom we owe any allegiance or trust.
Since faith as belief without evidence is neither legitimate nor a moral issue, we come back to the obligation of believers to provide sound reasons to think their god exists. In the absence of such reasons, atheists' disbelief in gods is neither intellectually nor morally problematic.
Ok I will now answer according to my opinions or beliefs. James T Kirk asked a being posing as God. "What does God need with a starship?' My opinion of The perfect one. Is he don't need anything. My beliefs that Atheist have no souls. Is based on The Universe pumping out too many intelligent beings. Now I will throw you another off the wall curve ball. There is a good chance we are a computer simulation. If so, how could The Perfect One keep up. Overall in my opinion God is not of human appearance. Maybe we are not even creatures of God in body, but we are in soul.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#175661 Aug 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
I will give you credit. If all atheist posted with your etiquette. I would have a higher respect for THE ONLINE ATHEIST, which are Atheist, different from atheist. I do find an Atheist like yourself in about 20% of conversations. Here at topix, I blogged with one I liked. Yes just one. This includes many on youtube, which are more closed minded if you could imagine that. Just read for yourself. The issue I have with you here in this message tread is why aren't you directing your issues of etiquette with The Atheist sort. Honestly when I saw Christians blog with you guys on youtube the Christians did some policing of their own. As I mentioned there was one I liked and he did go both directions, when complaining about online manners. It does not bother me I do expect worm meat to behave like this. I wouldn't dream of complaining about how you guys post, when it is in response to comments that could also be considered heated. It is hypocrisy, but perhaps that is the goal of the self thought to have zero beliefs.
I always think I'm kind of bitchy, to be honest.

My atheist friends laugh that I come on here at all, so you're right about the difference between topix posters and not-topix posters.

When I see a believer and an atheist in a heated argument on here, I don't know what started it. Why would I jump into the fray and say "stop calling this believer bad names!"

An example:
Nano gets all upset and blames me for other people's posts for not doing what you suggested. But she writes nasty, nasty stuff. So her opinion is hardly objective concerning her own posts and the fighting she's embroiled herself in.

I guess the bottom line is, if a believer and an atheist choose to respond to each other in a demeaning way, well, it takes two to tango.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#175662 Aug 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
You take BS way too seriously.
Oh. Ok, I'll stop.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175663 Aug 27, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Congratulations your post is funnier than many of the T Town Clowns post. You actually give a greater argument than I could give. Dude face it you're trying to put dong in a 3 piece suit
Obscene post reported.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

NCAA Basketball Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Barack Obama, our next President (Nov '08) 1 min Teaman 1,564,060
News Thousands Protest Roe V. Wade Decision (Jan '08) 2 hr Electric Blues 315,205
What role do you think humans play in global wa... (Sep '14) 15 hr Patriot AKA Bozo 11,288
News UCLA FOOTBALL NOTEBOOK: Neuheisel says Prince w... (Sep '10) Thu Told Pharts 33,405
News Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex ma... (Aug '10) Jul 12 New boy 201,878
News Johnny Brown Added To Coaching Staff (Oct '07) Jul 1 Brown Pharts 3
News Tragedy strikes family members of Leasure (Jul '08) Jun '17 Evidence phart 9
More from around the web