Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 258461 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

xianity is EVIL

Wheatley, Canada

#175603 Aug 26, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
I think atheist are turds! YUP YUP that's how I feel...
Internet TROLL
Why do trolls do it?

I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.

Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.

For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.

Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?

Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).
Trolls don't have friends. On the internet, because they interact with human beings, they can convince themselves that they are important, the centre of the universe - that, to them, is better than any friendship.

Don't forget, the troll thinks he is always right, and therefore better than other folk. In real life, exactly the opposite applies. the troll has no friends and virtually no interaction with other people.

If he's a teen (many are), then he lives in his bedroom, trolling, playing computer games with 'friends'(who he doesn't know at all), and joining roleplay sites, where - of course - he is a hero, or a powerful villain, who is respected in an inverse ratio to the respect he feels for himself.

If he's an adult, then he has serious social issues. He may work, where people think he's a weirdo, and avoid him, he may sponge off his parents or be 'looking for work', which means he blames everyone for his problems. Except himself.
Most people who are out of work are nothing like the stereotype; most want to work, and gain their self respect through work and being part of the world; but the troll IS the stereotype whining scrounger, to whom the world owes a living.

Almost every troll is male; I don't know why this is.

The troll has few social skills, and most have never had a girlfriend, many never will.

There's a clear pattern among trolls; they are much more likely to ignore posts known to be from women. And when they do respond to women, they are much more likely to be brief, abusive, condescending and patronising.

This is almost certainly more due to fear than misogyny - they just don't know any women. Except Mom. But their attitude rather reduces their chances of reproducing, which is probably a good thing.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#175604 Aug 26, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a rational response:
What can be said of atheism?
Well Karl Marx wrote that religion is the opium of the masses. And what did Marxism spawn? The atheistic states of communism. The Soviet Union with good old Joseph Stalin at the helm produced a genocidal legacy of 20 million people across Asia and Eastern Europe and that's not counting the casualties incurred by the Soviet Army in World War II.
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-jo...
Then we can look at Mao Tse Tung who surpassed genocide and made it to democide by being responsible for the deaths of nearly 45 million people. Mao was a deeply committed follower of Marxism.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainme...
Oh yeah then there's also Pol Pot. He was also a Marxist and killed 2 million.
Adolf Hitler was born of a Roman Catholic mother and an alcoholic abusive father. Hitler killed 11 million, some of whom were Christian. Hitler actually wanted to replace worship of Jesus Christ with Nazism. And his extermination of Jews was based upon race, not religion, although he did try to use religion as a propaganda tool.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/H...
And because I know you'll bring up the Crusades and Inquisition and Salem Witch trials as a rebuttal, I'll sweep the legs out from underneath that right now, with pleasure of course.:)
The Salem witch trials killed 19 people and was actually brought to a stop by a Christian who recognized the wrongful deeds of others, and held them accountable for their actions.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials...
The Inquisitions killed between 800-20,000 people over 400 years.
http://www.medievality.com/spanish-inquisitio...
And the Crusades killed many thousands but was largely a battle for control within Christianity. In all of these cases there was tremendous and inexcusable loss of life, and no one can claim their side was innocent. But let's not get carried away and claim atheism is as intelligent and cultured as you make it out to be. Far from it.
While on the subject of China......One of the largest death tolls in history took place during the Taiping Rebellion in China 1850-1864. Hong Xiuquan had a vision of Jesus and wanted to spread Christianity throughout China. 30 million lost their lives in a four year period. Here we DO have an example of millions killed as a direct result of religion, specifically Christianity. No grab for power, no political agenda, no striving for economic equality, like Mao and Stalin, but purely motivated by religion. Disgusting isn't it!!!!
UIdiotRACEMAKEWO RLDPEACE

United States

#175605 Aug 26, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>While on the subject of China......One of the largest death tolls in history took place during the Taiping Rebellion in China 1850-1864. Hong Xiuquan had a vision of Jesus and wanted to spread Christianity throughout China. 30 million lost their lives in a four year period. Here we DO have an example of millions killed as a direct result of religion, specifically Christianity. No grab for power, no political agenda, no striving for economic equality, like Mao and Stalin, but purely motivated by religion. Disgusting isn't it!!!!
Christian Coalition killed over 200 million throughout history.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#175607 Aug 26, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
Internet TROLL
Why do trolls do it?
I believe that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.
Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.
For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response.
Trolls, rather surprisingly, dispute this, claiming that it's a game or joke; this merely confirms the diagnosis; how sad do you have to be to find such mind-numbingly trivial timewasting to be funny?
Remember that trolls are cowards; they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, that's what they do!).
Trolls don't have friends. On the internet, because they interact with human beings, they can convince themselves that they are important, the centre of the universe - that, to them, is better than any friendship.
Don't forget, the troll thinks he is always right, and therefore better than other folk. In real life, exactly the opposite applies. the troll has no friends and virtually no interaction with other people.
If he's a teen (many are), then he lives in his bedroom, trolling, playing computer games with 'friends'(who he doesn't know at all), and joining roleplay sites, where - of course - he is a hero, or a powerful villain, who is respected in an inverse ratio to the respect he feels for himself.
If he's an adult, then he has serious social issues. He may work, where people think he's a weirdo, and avoid him, he may sponge off his parents or be 'looking for work', which means he blames everyone for his problems. Except himself.
Most people who are out of work are nothing like the stereotype; most want to work, and gain their self respect through work and being part of the world; but the troll IS the stereotype whining scrounger, to whom the world owes a living.
Almost every troll is male; I don't know why this is.
The troll has few social skills, and most have never had a girlfriend, many never will.
There's a clear pattern among trolls; they are much more likely to ignore posts known to be from women. And when they do respond to women, they are much more likely to be brief, abusive, condescending and patronising.
This is almost certainly more due to fear than misogyny - they just don't know any women. Except Mom. But their attitude rather reduces their chances of reproducing, which is probably a good thing.
well said troll some great copy and paste... very pitiful
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#175608 Aug 26, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a rational response:
What can be said of atheism?
Well Karl Marx wrote that religion is the opium of the masses. And what did Marxism spawn? The atheistic states of communism. The Soviet Union with good old Joseph Stalin at the helm produced a genocidal legacy of 20 million people across Asia and Eastern Europe and that's not counting the casualties incurred by the Soviet Army in World War II.
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-jo...
Then we can look at Mao Tse Tung who surpassed genocide and made it to democide by being responsible for the deaths of nearly 45 million people. Mao was a deeply committed follower of Marxism.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainme...
Oh yeah then there's also Pol Pot. He was also a Marxist and killed 2 million.
Adolf Hitler was born of a Roman Catholic mother and an alcoholic abusive father. Hitler killed 11 million, some of whom were Christian. Hitler actually wanted to replace worship of Jesus Christ with Nazism. And his extermination of Jews was based upon race, not religion, although he did try to use religion as a propaganda tool.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/H...
And because I know you'll bring up the Crusades and Inquisition and Salem Witch trials as a rebuttal, I'll sweep the legs out from underneath that right now, with pleasure of course.:)
The Salem witch trials killed 19 people and was actually brought to a stop by a Christian who recognized the wrongful deeds of others, and held them accountable for their actions.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials...
The Inquisitions killed between 800-20,000 people over 400 years.
http://www.medievality.com/spanish-inquisitio...
And the Crusades killed many thousands but was largely a battle for control within Christianity. In all of these cases there was tremendous and inexcusable loss of life, and no one can claim their side was innocent. But let's not get carried away and claim atheism is as intelligent and cultured as you make it out to be. Far from it.
How about trying tom justify the Rwandan Genocide supported by the Belgians and the Roman Catholic Church. 750, 000 died. Or the various English Kings who kept the 100 years war going. Or the great Bengal famine caused by CHRISTIAN taxation and restricted land use. King Leopold of Belgium an ardent Christian responsible for 21 million death in the Congo.

A very long list of politic al leaders who were religious and killed millions. Stalin and Mao were small fry compared to the 100 of millions killed by leaders who were Theists throughout history.

Since: Sep 08

Lamar, CO

#175609 Aug 26, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you don't preach it as an option. You shout it out like those street preachers who keep on yelling long after the crowd has moved on.
You went through the typical NDA, what flourishing touches your grandiose ego added are but minor subjective details. Oh, and did you know that the people who've done "serious" studies on this have also noticed how the stories grow longer and more detailed as time passes? Much like.......yours.
I couldn't help but notice how your posts keep contradicting themselves, you've been everywhere and done everything and ALL at the same time, whew! You're a regular Jack the Giant Killer, aren't you? Lolol....I love compulsive liars, they're never smart enough to keep track of all the BS they brag about and keep tripping over their own fat mouths....so much for 'the dave' ;0)
Dismissed sonny boy.
Hmmmm..

I guess you wouldn't believe my nine incher, either, huh?

OK, tell us about yours again. With more detail than before. If you don't have the details and the memories, then it was definitely a dream on your part.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#175610 Aug 26, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Could you keep it real. You die, you are worm meat. There are no parties worth going to. I could just imagine you'll share stories and conclude everyone is lying. The trust in marriage must be something.
It just sucks. Even if you were correct, who'd really want it. A bunch of online blow hards. Your post is funny. There is no morals and nothing noble about it. That jerkoff entertainer from England that was suppose to go on TV but got too fat and ugly from drinking, even told the world this prior to passing. Who cares if he could see God, or admit it. Spreading Atheism is for jerkoffs, because... it does suck. OK worm meat now continue on.
I suppose somewhere in this terrible thought out post there is a point, although I'd challenge anyone to find it. "blow hards" "jerkoffs" something about a fat and ugly guy from England........You might to well to get off your fat ass and supply the name of the person you're assassinating. Here try this.....Think about what you want to say........try and be as concise and as clear as possible. Think about the point you are trying to make. If there are names and places involved, make sure you know the correct spelling for them.......Now, after all of that is internalized, go ahead and put down your thoughts. Glad I could help. In doing this, you'll look much less.......ok, stupid.
uIDOTRACEMAKEWOR LDPEACE

United States

#175611 Aug 26, 2013
American People: A Biblical Worldview
American Theocracy
by Kevin Phillips, p102

The Bible - A Literal Truth

Is the Bible literally accurate?

National sample: Yes, 55%
Evangelical Protestants: Yes,
83% Non-evangelical
Protestants: Yes, 47%
Catholics: Yes, 45%

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#175612 Aug 26, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>...
Atheism is not a cause.
...
Then why do you sell "atheist" t-shirts if it's not a "cause", Bob?
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#175613 Aug 26, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>well said troll some great copy and paste... very pitiful
Ever notice that when children write its usually one of two paragraphs. More evidence that you are simply a child, and a simple minded one at that. Now.....Off to bed. If you like I'll read you a story. It's about a horrible thing that lives way up in the sky and can peer into your most private thoughts. This thing is always watching you, just waiting for you to do bad things. If this thing doesn't like what it see's it can sent you to a place where you will be burned, and we know how horrid that is right.......Now..Now...don't be scared little one, I didn't mean to frighten you. Please stop crying......the story I just told you is not real. There is no horrible thing that lives in he sky, its just a story. They used in in the olden days to frighten little children like you into being good, so stop crying. Only really stupid people still believe in children's stories. Now go to sleep, think good thoughts like being an Atheist..........Shhhhh, I think he's asleep now..........yep, he's dreaming about how wonderful it is to be an Atheist.....such a good little boy!!!!!!!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#175614 Aug 26, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
I think atheist are turds! YUP YUP that's how I feel...
Huh. Well, I guess we're breaking up then, T-T. You take care. Maybe read some books or something.

“Sweden more democratic thanUSA”

Since: Jun 12

Södertälje, Sweden

#175615 Aug 26, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>get off the Kool-Aid canoe Mikko you don't know that!!! you can't go by that time you prayed to GOD to change your looks!!!
You are like Jim Jones!

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#175616 Aug 27, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a rational response:
What can be said of atheism?
Well Karl Marx wrote that religion is the opium of the masses. And what did Marxism spawn? The atheistic states of communism. The Soviet Union with good old Joseph Stalin at the helm produced a genocidal legacy of 20 million people across Asia and Eastern Europe and that's not counting the casualties incurred by the Soviet Army in World War II.
http://www.ibtimes.com/how-many-people-did-jo...
Then we can look at Mao Tse Tung who surpassed genocide and made it to democide by being responsible for the deaths of nearly 45 million people. Mao was a deeply committed follower of Marxism.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainme...
Oh yeah then there's also Pol Pot. He was also a Marxist and killed 2 million.
Adolf Hitler was born of a Roman Catholic mother and an alcoholic abusive father. Hitler killed 11 million, some of whom were Christian. Hitler actually wanted to replace worship of Jesus Christ with Nazism. And his extermination of Jews was based upon race, not religion, although he did try to use religion as a propaganda tool.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/H...
And because I know you'll bring up the Crusades and Inquisition and Salem Witch trials as a rebuttal, I'll sweep the legs out from underneath that right now, with pleasure of course.:)
The Salem witch trials killed 19 people and was actually brought to a stop by a Christian who recognized the wrongful deeds of others, and held them accountable for their actions.
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials...
The Inquisitions killed between 800-20,000 people over 400 years.
http://www.medievality.com/spanish-inquisitio...
And the Crusades killed many thousands but was largely a battle for control within Christianity. In all of these cases there was tremendous and inexcusable loss of life, and no one can claim their side was innocent. But let's not get carried away and claim atheism is as intelligent and cultured as you make it out to be. Far from it.
You are showing the destructive power of a certain *polical, economic* system: Communism. What interests me is the way that Communism has many of the characteristics of religion (while obviously not being a religion). It regarded anyone who *didn't* believe as evil. It regarded the spread of their ideas as of hgih importance. It often made claims about the real world that were diametrically opposed to the conclusions of science (Lysenko anyone?). It felt that anyone who was heretical deserved death.

So how about the massive numbers of deaths from the slave trade: done by Christians. How about the genocide of the native american peoples: done by Christians. How about the religion-based ways in the former Yugoslavia?

The point is that both atheists and Christians can *also* be power hungry mad men. Both can kill because they are interested in control and will kill any who stand in their way.

But now let's refine this search a bit. How many mass killings have been done by Secular Humanists? You know, those who support a rational and scientific enquiry to decide morality? How many killings have been done by people who are open to new ideas rather than holding domatically on to some prescribed beliefs in either religion or politics? How many poeple have been killed in the *name* of atheism as opposed to the *name* of Christianity?

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#175617 Aug 27, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh. Well, I guess we're breaking up then, T-T. You take care. Maybe read some books or something.
The bible is my book

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#175618 Aug 27, 2013
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
You are like Jim Jones!
you are like Richard Simmons

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#175619 Aug 27, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are showing the destructive power of a certain *polical, economic* system: Communism. What interests me is the way that Communism has many of the characteristics of religion (while obviously not being a religion). It regarded anyone who *didn't* believe as evil. It regarded the spread of their ideas as of hgih importance. It often made claims about the real world that were diametrically opposed to the conclusions of science (Lysenko anyone?). It felt that anyone who was heretical deserved death.
So how about the massive numbers of deaths from the slave trade: done by Christians. How about the genocide of the native american peoples: done by Christians. How about the religion-based ways in the former Yugoslavia?
The point is that both atheists and Christians can *also* be power hungry mad men. Both can kill because they are interested in control and will kill any who stand in their way.
But now let's refine this search a bit. How many mass killings have been done by Secular Humanists? You know, those who support a rational and scientific enquiry to decide morality? How many killings have been done by people who are open to new ideas rather than holding domatically on to some prescribed beliefs in either religion or politics? How many poeple have been killed in the *name* of atheism as opposed to the *name* of Christianity?
Christianity can be abused because there is an objective basis to do a comparison. Under atheism or Darwinism there is no real objective basis. Slave trade was opposed by Christians based on the Bible. You are selective as usual.

1.Under what objective basis does an atheist oppose slavery? It appears non believers only speak out against slavery as depicted in their warped understanding of Scripture. They ignore the fact slavery depicted is the result of man abandoning God which is exactly what the non believer does! In Scripture context slavery is a result of unbelief!

2.Under atheism is it objectively wrong for one person to own another in all circumstances?

3. Are you saying mass killings is objectively wrong? Under what objective basis?

4. Would not the laws of nature render obsolete the arbitrary laws of man? Survival of the fittest?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#175620 Aug 27, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>The bible is my book
It is a good idea to read more than one book. For that matter, it is a good idea to read more than one book at a time.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#175621 Aug 27, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a good idea to read more than one book. For that matter, it is a good idea to read more than one book at a time.
there are sixty six books in one bible.. So I agree with you.. start out in John then hit Proverbs...

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#175622 Aug 27, 2013
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> Christianity can be abused because there is an objective basis to do a comparison.
1. That's a nonsensical sentence. How can the objective be abused?

2. Christianity has no access to objectivity or objective truth. It's entirely subjective, interpreted subjectively and changes throughout history to suit contemporary culture(s).
Under atheism or Darwinism there is no real objective basis.
1. Atheism is disbelief in deities, based on available evidence and subjective reasoning.

2. What you label Darwinism is the framework theory for all biological sciences. You cannot get more objective than science, despite science being unable to be completely objective.
Slave trade was opposed by Christians based on the Bible. You are selective as usual.
Throughout Western history, the vast, vast majority of slave owners were Christian and used the Bible to support their slavery.

You are being selective, as usual.
1.Under what objective basis does an atheist oppose slavery?
1. The argument from analogy. It goes like this "I'm human. I feel. I enjoy freedom and would not want to be a slave. Other people are human, they are like me. So it is immoral to make them slaves."

2. The belief that, as social and thinking beings, we should seek to minimize suffering and maximize happiness. Slavery is suffering, therefore it is immoral.

2a. The belief that, as social and thinking beings, we should seek to maximize human potential. Slavery destroys human potential and therefore it is immoral.

3. Societally agreed upon declarations of human rights. These prohibit slavery - again, for the betterment of humankind.
It appears non believers only speak out against slavery as depicted in their warped understanding of Scripture.
That's senseless. Your Bible supports slavery just as easily as it can be interpreted otherwise. In fact, the OT deity forces people into slavery.
They ignore the fact slavery depicted is the result of man abandoning God which is exactly what the non believer does! In Scripture context slavery is a result of unbelief!
Comparing real slavery to atheism is utter trash thinking. Slavery has nothing to do with atheism. The greatest slavers in Western history were Christians.
2.Under atheism is it objectively wrong for one person to own another in all circumstances?
Same as I presented above. You don't seem to understand where morality comes from. It comes from the social. The basis for all human morality is preservation of civil society - allowing people to get along in larger than kin groups. Religion pretends otherwise, but you simply place imagined fictions overtop of normal human morality - and often twist human morality when it suits your religious leaders.
3. Are you saying mass killings is objectively wrong? Under what objective basis?
4. Would not the laws of nature render obsolete the arbitrary laws of man? Survival of the fittest?
No. You are here failing to understand what "fit" means. You seem to be using it as "strong" or "might over weak" etc. That's false. Fit specifically refers to successful alleles (genes). Any gene that enjoys many copies in a genome is fit.

Morality, in social animals, especially intelligent ones with extremely high populations, is the "fittest." Our largest struggle right now is getting along with other cultures and accepting difference - that's something religions do very poorly at.

You believers constantly express that you have the "one, true reality" and that everyone who doesn't share your views is wrong. That won't work in our current time - there's too many people with so many different ways of understanding reality. You're going to have to change and accept others for who they are.

They're not trying to be like you.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#175623 Aug 27, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>The bible is my book
You need more than one book. Get out of the fiction section.

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