Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#175307 Aug 24, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Seeing that the evidence shows those who do not believe in a fictitious being are smarter than those who do believe, then it's understandable how we can have more free time and still make 6 figures.
Your post is a good example of the lesser intelligence believers have, as you have made an assertion without a shred of evidence.
I have a suggestion for you, put down that bible and pick up a science book. Try and cleanse your mind of the celestial dictator peering over your shoulder 24/7, and then maybe, just maybe, you to can have the freedom and leisure we Atheists so enjoy. Good Luck with loosing your horrid delusions.
Some believers have higher I.Q. scores. My cousin is an example of a poorly educated atheist. He quit school to pursue his interest in partying, burning out more brain cells in the process. He denied the existence of God for years. After several years of mental health problems and a few hospitalizations, he wasn't any closer to a positive example of academic achievement. He had to apply for Social Security Disability, which is hardly a six-figure income.

Your statement is really nothing more than a carefully crafted superiority complex, and reveals a very superficial and linear understanding of theological concepts. You seem to have an aptitude for science, math, and music, but that could also be an indicator of
autism. It's well known that people with a sensory handicap such as blindness often develop a more highly developed sense of hearing and/or smell to compensate. In a likewise manner, some people with a "spiritual handicap" attempt to compensate for it with academic studies. Academic and intellectual achievement is a wonderful thing, but only until the point is reached where a person feels "superior" over others. At that point, humility itself is handicapped and crushed to death under the weight of self absorption.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175308 Aug 24, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, but watching popularizations on TV just doesn't cut it when discussing QM. Most are so watered down as to be silly. Others are simply wrong in particulars.
I certainly don't know everything, but I do know my subjects: math and physics. If you want references to refereed papers, I can give them.
True Mr Quantum man, but that is just you in your universe. Your universe is true to you, and you only. Amen to that. It is clear it sucks to be you why wish it upon others.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175309 Aug 24, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry, you can't make a statement "physics supports a creator" and not provide evidence for that claim.
Otherwise, you're just blowing hot air.
Face it you can't prove anything you have faith in your belief. End a rounds in conversations do not change that. You all ready admitted the truth stop being a bull er.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175310 Aug 24, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Your "theories" are just hogwash-- religious bullshyt re-painted to seem "scientifical" but still bullshyt all the same.
<quoted text>
It's not spin, if it's accurate.
<quoted text>
Lie. I explained 3 points showing you are lying.
NONE OF WHICH YOU EVEN TRIED TO REFUTE.
Here they are again:
Quantum mechanics proves beyond any doubts, that an omniscient god cannot exist within the present universe.
Period.
That proves to 100% that your god isn't real.
But it's worse: the theory of relativity--well tested-- also proves beyond any doubts that an omniscient god is impossible in the present universe.
That's two.
The Heisenberg uncertainty principle? That's 3 proofs you cannot have an all-knowing god in the universe.
That's three-- there's more.
Everyone else that could make it on any science channel says the exact opposite of you, as I said you are in your own private universe, and one that really sucks. Perhaps the reason you're in the minority is no one wants to share your thoughts with children, because they suck. I am sorry for you that you are stuck in YOUR reality. What is true for you is not true for all. Mr so called Quantum, that is your Universe anyway. Amen to that.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#175311 Aug 24, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
True Mr Quantum man, but that is just you in your universe. Your universe is true to you, and you only. Amen to that. It is clear it sucks to be you why wish it upon others.
You delude yourself into thinking you live in some other universe, when the one he speaks of includes you in it. So the physical laws apply to you also, whether you like or admit it.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#175314 Aug 24, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>You make this stupid analogy, and then have the balls to call him a nutcase, REALLY?
Did anyone SEE Jose make this structure? Is there any evidence that Jose and not someone else or a group of people were responsible for the structure? Is there any evidence as to WHEN this structure was built? Jose was stupid for leaving the cat in an enclosed structure. Jose should have realized the nature of a cat, and that leaving them confined for a long period of time was asking for trouble. Jose was therefore ignorant. His idiocy was further compounded when he spoke to the cat and expected it to understand. Beside being incredibly stupid, Jose is also cruel and uncaring by throwing the cat out of the house. Like Adam and Eve, the cat had no concept of right or wrong, and forbidding it access to the house mirrors the cruelty displayed by God.
Is this really how you want to depict your God? You really think this analogy is a good one?
More to the point, lets assume that Jose KNEW that leaving the cat trapped in the structure was a bad idea. Knew that the cat would go crazy and cause a mess, he knew all this yet punished the cat anyway, this is exactly what God did. Am I the only one that see's this a total insanity??
You are not going to get petted with that attitude.

Go eat a bug.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#175315 Aug 24, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Bullshyt.
What "causes" radioactive decay?
What is the "cause" from one moment to the next, that "makes" a radioactive atom suddenly break into smaller atoms?
Hmmm?
We have had discussions about this before.

Poly says magic, I say readjustment of energy transfers on the universal scale.

Everything is tied together per science. Move one tiny bit and it crosses the universe.

You have two ways for that decay to occur. A tug from somewhere else on that particle, or a barrier to it is lessened allowing for its imbalance to seek balance.

Atoms are part of the universe. You do understand that, don't you?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#175316 Aug 24, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Face it you can't prove anything you have faith in your belief. End a rounds in conversations do not change that. You all ready admitted the truth stop being a bull er.
You mean when I said we all have subjective realities? Yes, that's true.

It also disproves your deity.

Thanks for the admission.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#175317 Aug 24, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean when I said we all have subjective realities? Yes, that's true.
It also disproves your deity.
Thanks for the admission.
You have some oddly twisted logic. Your spurious signal generations are affecting your thinking.

To have a subjective reality you have to have a reality to create the subjective one. Its a matter of a daughter force bouncing off the larger one it is derived from.

You walk into a rec hall or a movie theater and engage in action/reaction. Means are provided. The same is done here.

Pay the proprietor on the way out.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#175318 Aug 24, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Some believers have higher I.Q. scores. My cousin is an example of a poorly educated atheist. He quit school to pursue his interest in partying, burning out more brain cells in the process. He denied the existence of God for years. After several years of mental health problems and a few hospitalizations, he wasn't any closer to a positive example of academic achievement. He had to apply for Social Security Disability, which is hardly a six-figure income.
Your statement is really nothing more than a carefully crafted superiority complex, and reveals a very superficial and linear understanding of theological concepts. You seem to have an aptitude for science, math, and music, but that could also be an indicator of
autism. It's well known that people with a sensory handicap such as blindness often develop a more highly developed sense of hearing and/or smell to compensate. In a likewise manner, some people with a "spiritual handicap" attempt to compensate for it with academic studies. Academic and intellectual achievement is a wonderful thing, but only until the point is reached where a person feels "superior" over others. At that point, humility itself is handicapped and crushed to death under the weight of self absorption.
Yes I'm sure "some" believers do have higher I.Q. scores, and giving ONE example of a poorly educated Atheists is kind of pointless, don't you think? Now that I think of it, giving "one" example to make a point is really foolish, especially when we are talking about huge numbers.

Research has shown that Atheists have higher intelligence than people with strong religious faith, the difference is 5.8 according to findings in Developmental Psychology. Only 7% of members in the American Academy of Science believe in God. Several Gallup poll studies of general populations have shown that those with higher I.Q.'s tend to NOT believe in God.

Do your own research if you like as I did, I'm sure the results will show the higher intelligence belonging to Atheists. It only stands to reason, part of being intelligent is being skeptical, and understanding how the world around us works. We do not accept unsupported premisses and abhor gullibility.

My statement is far from a carefully crafted superiority complex, it is factual information available to anyone. Further research will show how well countries that have a high percentage of Atheists do in many areas such as health, crime, education, income, and general wellness.

"Spiritual handicap"....too funny, as is "Theological concepts." Theology, the study of what can only be imagined. Of course all of our points dealing with academics as a way of compensating for a "spiritual handicap" ( what ever the hell that is) are totally unsupported. Typical of most Theists. You throw around words like *spiritual* and *soul* and expect us to take them as something real when you have zero evidence that they exist.
blacklagoon

Revere, MA

#175319 Aug 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are not going to get petted with that attitude.
Go eat a bug.
Thanks for your NON-responce. Glad to see you agree with my assessment of your extremely faulty analogy.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#175320 Aug 24, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks for your NON-responce. Glad to see you agree with my assessment of your extremely faulty analogy.
More of your assumptive thinking processes and lack of higher intelligence to appreciate such things.

You must be a horn blower. Totally absorbed in your own noise.

Hey, do the fish gather around you out sailing like the squirrels in the park? Try fish food. Like the peanuts for the squirrels.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175321 Aug 24, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
You delude yourself into thinking you live in some other universe, when the one he speaks of includes you in it. So the physical laws apply to you also, whether you like or admit it.
No question we do, it should be embraced. To post as you have. You have no belief in Quantum physics, or you don't believe it. So be it.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175322 Aug 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
We have had discussions about this before.
Poly says magic, I say readjustment of energy transfers on the universal scale.
Everything is tied together per science. Move one tiny bit and it crosses the universe.
You have two ways for that decay to occur. A tug from somewhere else on that particle, or a barrier to it is lessened allowing for its imbalance to seek balance.
Atoms are part of the universe. You do understand that, don't you?
I am sorry Dave I can't see why you waste your time going into details. Bob sees things strictly how it favors his own personal delusion. He is a fundamentalist, therefore he is here to spread his delusion. He does it religiously, while making a shield claiming he is not religious. True atheist would frown on Bob's ways. That is why Bob is an Atheist. With a large cased A not the smaller cased a.

“Robert Stevens”

Since: Dec 08

Jersey City , NJ

#175323 Aug 24, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean when I said we all have subjective realities? Yes, that's true.
It also disproves your deity.
Thanks for the admission.
I don't want to have my religion, faith or beliefs be part of this conversation. I am a Pagan sort. I consider many Pagans less religious than Atheist. Boy is that stamen a cheat, I doubt you could figure out the detail. With that said, I can prove my deity. It just goes off topic. You are so use to repeating your previous conversations, you failed to pick up on this point that should have been clear to you days ago.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#175325 Aug 24, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
No question we do, it should be embraced. To post as you have. You have no belief in Quantum physics, or you don't believe it. So be it.
So many of these quasi-understanders of Science don't understand the underpinnings of the logic. They just fall in love with the mystical sounding terms. Then they get sucked into cults.

There is zero proof or even any indications this universe could arise from nothingness and our assemblage from chance. There is hardcore scientific evidence and proof that our level of intelligence and manipulation of matter requires some organization to even be formed. There is also the scientific intellectual understanding that our perceptions of the universe and our construction is strictly a result of our limitations to observe that which it was formed in. We can't see outside the box we are in. Science itself claims to see that box, just not what created it.

The BBT and laws of thermodynamics prove we are a machine as we understand machines. Topix atheists believe we are magic beings of our own making.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#175326 Aug 24, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You have some oddly twisted logic. Your spurious signal generations are affecting your thinking.
To have a subjective reality you have to have a reality to create the subjective one. Its a matter of a daughter force bouncing off the larger one it is derived from.
You walk into a rec hall or a movie theater and engage in action/reaction. Means are provided. The same is done here.
Pay the proprietor on the way out.
You are aware that one's subjective reality is not objectively real, right? You're also aware that one's subjective reality, no matter how hard they really, really, really believe in it, isn't subjectively real for all people, right?

You are aware that some people's subjective realities include different deities than the Abrahamic ones, yes? And that other people's don't have deities in them at all, yes?

And that physicists don't share your strange confabulation with the EM, yes?

Since no one's subjective reality is objectively real, since all kinds of mutually exclusive deities exist in lots of differing subjective realities, and since some have no deities at all, we can safely conclude that deities do not exist.

You can't have both mutually exclusive deities existing and no deities existing concurrently; hence objective reality includes none. They're just imagined beings - similar to your imagined explanations of reality by postulating that everything is EM based.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#175328 Aug 24, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't want to have my religion, faith or beliefs be part of this conversation. I am a Pagan sort. I consider many Pagans less religious than Atheist. Boy is that stamen a cheat, I doubt you could figure out the detail. With that said, I can prove my deity. It just goes off topic. You are so use to repeating your previous conversations, you failed to pick up on this point that should have been clear to you days ago.
Our conversation went like this: we both agreed atheists and believers have beliefs. Then we agreed that the faith atheists have in things like medicine is not akin to the faith believers have in their deities.

Then you claimed that physics proved your deity existed. Poly and I both asked for evidence and you were unable to present any, but you certainly put up a bluff "oh, I could if I wanted."

Here you do the same - "I could put proof of my deity up!"

Sorry, I don't believe you. Yes, I believe that you really and truly believe in your deities - enough to subjectively experience them as real. But at the end of the day, they're imagined beings made real to you through practiced behavior and your social experiences.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175329 Aug 24, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Some believers have higher I.Q. scores.
Naturally!

Atheism is simply no faith in deities/supernatural.

That is **all** that it is, in spite of false claims to the contrary.

As such, simple distributive probabilities show that some atheists will be quite stupid (as compared to the standard norms).

However, after saying that? I **must** point out the obvious:

Religion and religious brainwashing is pretty much ubiquitous over much of the world.

As such, it is quite difficult to be born, and **not** exposed to religious indoctrination during one's lifetime.

And religion's insidious nature is such, that it's memes create mental barriers opposing dislodging the ideas.

The only real cure for those? Appears to be education-- once a person is fully brainwashed into a religion or religion's memes?

Only exposure to many and varied ideas seems to be able to overcome these brainwashing-created mental walls.

And so?

Atheists, for the most part, consist of people who have been exposed to many and varied ideas--

-- a phenomena which **tends** to lead to better thinking skillsets.

-- of which **tends** to lead to better testing under the old IQ memes.

And there you have it in a nutshell. <grin>

(admittedly, a rather **largish** nutshell... heh)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#175330 Aug 24, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
True Mr Quantum man, but that is just you in your universe. Your universe is true to you, and you only. Amen to that. It is clear it sucks to be you why wish it upon others.
The above is in no way a valid counter-argument to Polymath's statements.

Fail.

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