Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Let the Children”

Since: Aug 08

Come To Me

#175045 Aug 19, 2013
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be off topic. No kidding I must have ran into a few hundred topics requesting theist to explain. There is just one reason you won't explain why you continue to state your beliefs as fact. It is as simple as what you've done for since the internet started. You can't prove it physically. I am telling you here and now on a tread giving you the burden of prove in accordance to it's title you can't. I do admit I have beliefs and faith, it can't be scientifically proven. I have no problem with that I never said my faith is 100% certain, that is why I call it faith. Because you can't prove what you believe as fact, you have faith. Please don't waste your time I can tell you, you can not prove The Universe is without a creator.
IMO

IT does not just require the faith of a religion ..it is one ..Not that RELIGION is a great thing ..Faith ..is what's,important ..in God .

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

Now you can be ordained in the atheist religion

Atheist churches,are springing up all over

The atheists are just as much fundamnntalist as the most extreme cult .

who travels thousands,of miles ..to a tiny town in order to say THAT TOWN's Christmas traditions offend them ..they don't live there nor pay taxes,there..I wouldn't go to a parade a half mile away to say I'm offended..my town is ful of rainbos signs and flags in front of houses.
There are also Christmas displays ...

Who cares,.long as they don't put anything on my front yard .I don't care

But some of the atheists make it a cause ..I'm sure they get donatiins to sponsor this stuff ..

It's HATRED. Worse than much I have seen by Christians or Jews,

If you don't like a nativity scene or a menorah..
Don't go out if your way to see one..it's,just plain foolish..But mire it's,evil ..when taken to extremes

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#175046 Aug 19, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Since that is NOT Hawking's argument, you are merely showing your ignorance.
I know next to nothing about Physics, Quantum Theory, higher math, etc.

I often argue from the viewpoint of my experience and/or knowledge. Why these theological arguments usually wind up with bickering over a scientific point that leans neither towards or away from supernatural powers, I've never quite understood. Science can only deal with what can be proven.***shrugs***

I DO know better than to argue from lack of comprehension (be it ignorance or stupidity), lol.
xianity is EVIL

Tecumseh, Canada

#175047 Aug 19, 2013
xianity is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
is there anything good positive in your religion?
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be off topic. No kidding I must have ran into a few hundred topics requesting theist to explain. There is just one reason you won't explain why you continue to state your beliefs as fact. It is as simple as what you've done for since the internet started. You can't prove it physically. I am telling you here and now on a tread giving you the burden of prove in accordance to it's title you can't. I do admit I have beliefs and faith, it can't be scientifically proven. I have no problem with that I never said my faith is 100% certain, that is why I call it faith. Because you can't prove what you believe as fact, you have faith. Please don't waste your time I can tell you, you can not prove The Universe is without a creator.
reading comprehension suffer you yes?

Im not asking about scientific proof for anything,

cant you come up with a single good positive thing you derive from religion??

why do you believe in god then?

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175048 Aug 19, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
Lagoon is 66? Well, maybe I'm a bit of a kid after all....but not by much;0) Ahhh, the Beatles making their big debut on the Ed Sullivan Show, now that was quite an experience.
Who was it that said, "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely?" Don't remember, but it was said by a man about his fellow man. No deities required.
My observance of my experiences and history show that the Bible was accepted as literal until cold hard facts proved otherwise. Now many (not all) accept a more relaxed metaphorical interpretation of the book. Jesus spoke in parables so other things were allowed to slide too.
I don't mind being humbled by a higher power, I am humbled by many things like a view of the stars at night, that puts my place in the universe into perspective just fine. I just refuse to be humbled by a nonexistent entity for if this particular entity did exist, s/he/it is not worth the trouble. I don't need a deity to try to be honest or to tell the truth, perhaps this is where we differ.
Hitchens is quite dead, he was a witty and very acerbic public speaker and author....but he's dead. As for Dawkins, I don't think I would fear putting him at the helm, he is a rational, logical man. He might just approach some of our problems from that viewpoint and I don't see it as a bad thing. If he has compassion also, he would be great for the job but I fear he's even older than we are, so.....;0)
You seem to think that compassion and morality is generated by church teachings, no, I don't agree with that at all. Just look at Bill Gates....perhaps he should be in power, his credentials are quite good. Again, no deity required.
I have clarified this before, but the passions of the atheist crowd tend to get in their way. You gave me a good sentence there to modify so they may understand better where I am coming from.

"You seem to think that compassion and morality is generated by church teachings"

Make that read "You seem to think that compassion and morality WAS generated by church teachings".

What you consider those things are built upon generations of them being taught in those religions, in spite of men being hypocrites. You wouldn't have this modern human secular humanism without that preceding.

I'm really rather detached from religion. I look at it and mankind a lot more objectively than most. That is why I don't "react" to it like Topix atheists do. I do react to their getting carried away with their reactions, but that is really a recreational activity rather than an emotional reaction.

Do I believe in a higher force or intelligence behind this existence thing. Yes I do. That is from my technological training and understanding and applying basic physics on the larger scale. There is no poofing into existence and becoming a observed closed system the way the reactors to religion have adopted as a substitute religion.

Existence is way beyond me. I'm here, I'm a machine, I have something running me on the subconscious level. It's kicked my ass royal and it has been good to me. Not a thing I can do about it, so I am just along for the ride. It's an experience. Yet I am a Christian fundie in the eyes of most Topix atheists and think with a religious passion. While they rant on and on about all the evils of it. Amusing. None of them seem to realize if every single thing, even footsteps, did not occur the way they did, and this includes all of those evils, they would not be here to rant and whine about them. It's how they got here. Plus they are disrespecting the hell out of their ancestors, which if you think about it, just makes them lower their own worth. If junk made you, you are junk.

Like I told you, I was an atheist for 50 years. You don't return to fundamentalism after that. Coupled with what I mentioned about technology, you also don't take people and life so seriously.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#175049 Aug 19, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>I have clarified this before, but the passions of the atheist crowd tend to get in their way. You gave me a good sentence there to modify so they may understand better where I am coming from.

"You seem to think that compassion and morality is generated by church teachings"

Make that read "You seem to think that compassion and morality WAS generated by church teachings".

What you consider those things are built upon generations of them being taught in those religions, in spite of men being hypocrites. You wouldn't have this modern human secular humanism without that preceding.

I'm really rather detached from religion. I look at it and mankind a lot more objectively than most. That is why I don't "react" to it like Topix atheists do. I do react to their getting carried away with their reactions, but that is really a recreational activity rather than an emotional reaction.

Do I believe in a higher force or intelligence behind this existence thing. Yes I do. That is from my technological training and understanding and applying basic physics on the larger scale. There is no poofing into existence and becoming a observed closed system the way the reactors to religion have adopted as a substitute religion.

Existence is way beyond me. I'm here, I'm a machine, I have something running me on the subconscious level. It's kicked my ass royal and it has been good to me. Not a thing I can do about it, so I am just along for the ride. It's an experience. Yet I am a Christian fundie in the eyes of most Topix atheists and think with a religious passion. While they rant on and on about all the evils of it. Amusing. None of them seem to realize if every single thing, even footsteps, did not occur the way they did, and this includes all of those evils, they would not be here to rant and whine about them. It's how they got here. Plus they are disrespecting the hell out of their ancestors, which if you think about it, just makes them lower their own worth. If junk made you, you are junk.

Like I told you, I was an atheist for 50 years. You don't return to fundamentalism after that. Coupled with what I mentioned about technology, you also don't take people and life so seriously.
I'm sorry...I don't think that I'm quite as old as you, but I can't agree that morality was generated by the churches. I am curious though why you feel this way, if you don't mind me asking.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#175050 Aug 19, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
I have clarified this before, but the passions of the atheist crowd tend to get in their way. You gave me a good sentence there to modify so they may understand better where I am coming from.
"You seem to think that compassion and morality is generated by church teachings"
Make that read "You seem to think that compassion and morality WAS generated by church teachings".
What you consider those things are built upon generations of them being taught in those religions, in spite of men being hypocrites. You wouldn't have this modern human secular humanism without that preceding.
I'm really rather detached from religion. I look at it and mankind a lot more objectively than most. That is why I don't "react" to it like Topix atheists do. I do react to their getting carried away with their reactions, but that is really a recreational activity rather than an emotional reaction.
Do I believe in a higher force or intelligence behind this existence thing. Yes I do. That is from my technological training and understanding and applying basic physics on the larger scale. There is no poofing into existence and becoming a observed closed system the way the reactors to religion have adopted as a substitute religion.
Existence is way beyond me. I'm here, I'm a machine, I have something running me on the subconscious level. It's kicked my ass royal and it has been good to me. Not a thing I can do about it, so I am just along for the ride. It's an experience. Yet I am a Christian fundie in the eyes of most Topix atheists and think with a religious passion. While they rant on and on about all the evils of it. Amusing. None of them seem to realize if every single thing, even footsteps, did not occur the way they did, and this includes all of those evils, they would not be here to rant and whine about them. It's how they got here. Plus they are disrespecting the hell out of their ancestors, which if you think about it, just makes them lower their own worth. If junk made you, you are junk.
Like I told you, I was an atheist for 50 years. You don't return to fundamentalism after that. Coupled with what I mentioned about technology, you also don't take people and life so seriously.
You seem to think that the same (or similar) religions were in all places all over the globe at all times. No, religion did not spawn human secularism. Believe it or not, some have simply learned that in order to get along, certain conditions must be met. No deity required for the larger picture.

As for the rest...let's see, blah-de-blah, blah, blah....you seem to confuse technology with the supernatural...ummmm...you think you are a machine...ok, fine, whatevs.

Yep, you are an ego driven loose cannon. Fortunately, a nonsensical string of words is not dangerous to your fellow man. Carry on!....;0)

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175051 Aug 19, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry...I don't think that I'm quite as old as you, but I can't agree that morality was generated by the churches. I am curious though why you feel this way, if you don't mind me asking.
Enforcement by peer pressure. It became part of your genes over time. It raised humanity above pure action/reaction and selfish desires. Man is made to behave.

Plus those book based religions gave the same template for each new generation to interpret and adapt for their own age, while also preserving a bridge to the old. Living books. Less ad lib development of civilization.

It's all part of evolution.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175052 Aug 19, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
You seem to think that the same (or similar) religions were in all places all over the globe at all times. No, religion did not spawn human secularism. Believe it or not, some have simply learned that in order to get along, certain conditions must be met. No deity required for the larger picture.
As for the rest...let's see, blah-de-blah, blah, blah....you seem to confuse technology with the supernatural...ummmm...you think you are a machine...ok, fine, whatevs.
Yep, you are an ego driven loose cannon. Fortunately, a nonsensical string of words is not dangerous to your fellow man. Carry on!....;0)
Nice rant, Glad to give you something to vent with.:-)

My ego is less self centered than your ego.

Those get along lessons were passed to later generations as religions.

Yes, secular humanism existed, but only for the ruling group. Ask the slaves used for anal sex by their Greek masters.

Christianity was the first religion to go global worshiping a universal creator on a personal level. No tribe, no political group exclusivity, nor even ritual worship. It was there, but it wasn't part of the teachings. It also ended blood sacrifices.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#175053 Aug 19, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>Enforcement by peer pressure. It became part of your genes over time. It raised humanity above pure action/reaction and selfish desires. Man is made to behave.

Plus those book based religions gave the same template for each new generation to interpret and adapt for their own age, while also preserving a bridge to the old. Living books. Less ad lib development of civilization.

It's all part of evolution.
I understand what you're saying. Is it in your opinion, since I don't have faith in a god, that I don't carry good morals because of that fact?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#175054 Aug 19, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>

My ego is less self centered than your ego.
Dave.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175055 Aug 19, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand what you're saying. Is it in your opinion, since I don't have faith in a god, that I don't carry good morals because of that fact?
Not at all. I said you have them because of those generations of moral teachings by religion. It is part of your culture. You are an ethnic Christian whether you believe in Jesus or not. He won.:-)

If you believe your morality is something that arises from within you, then you need to re-evaluate just what you do believe,or not believe in. The strictly materialistic view of existence requires such things to be learned.

You can develop an empathy and such for those you grew up with, as they are a part of your very world. But going beyond that to outsiders is something different. You just can't trust them until you know them. some of them will smile at you, then kill you for something you have and they want. To know them you have to live with them. Religion spread that tribal value of empathy, etc to larger political groups. It became the shared values, and thus a mechanism for trust and merging of groups.

The first gods were pretty much local. Monotheism became the universal ruler establishing morals all must follow.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#175056 Aug 19, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave.
Yes, my child? You have a question for me?

It will have to wait till morning. I'm going to bed. Good night.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#175057 Aug 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>Not at all. I said you have them because of those generations of moral teachings by religion. It is part of your culture. You are an ethnic Christian whether you believe in Jesus or not. He won.:-)

If you believe your morality is something that arises from within you, then you need to re-evaluate just what you do believe,or not believe in. The strictly materialistic view of existence requires such things to be learned.

You can develop an empathy and such for those you grew up with, as they are a part of your very world. But going beyond that to outsiders is something different. You just can't trust them until you know them. some of them will smile at you, then kill you for something you have and they want. To know them you have to live with them. Religion spread that tribal value of empathy, etc to larger political groups. It became the shared values, and thus a mechanism for trust and merging of groups.

The first gods were pretty much local. Monotheism became the universal ruler establishing morals all must follow.
While I don't agree that it was a religious beginning, I do agree that religion has helped to spread a set of moral values that it has established. It is good to know that you do not hold the idea that all non-believers hold a corrupt set of moral value, and thank you for conversing with me peacefully :-). It is not done often enough and greatly appreciated.:-)

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#175059 Aug 20, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, my child? You have a question for me?
It will have to wait till morning. I'm going to bed. Good night.
I have a question, why can't you creationists grow some balls and:

1. Prove the gods your're here to lie about.
2. Stop attacking hard science we use everyday, when you can't even prove your god.
3. Correct your rag bible and remove the parts about atheists being fool - forever.

See if you are brave enough to challenge your cult leaders with the facts they are so frightened of?

You can't do any of this because you are a conscious liar for your cult.

You mental illness means you cannot confront the fact that you have no proof of god or accept that you're lying to complete strangers.

After your brainwashing by the creationist cult, you have lost all of your logical facilities.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

#175060 Aug 20, 2013
Bible Study 101

The Bible means exactly what it says.

If what the Bible literally says contradicts your church's doctrine then it is figurative and must be interpreted to fit the church's doctrine.

If there are two contradictory statements in the Bible only the one that agrees with your church's doctrine is literal, the is figurative and must be interpreted to match the church's doctrine.

If you can't find support for a particular church doctrine then search for a passage that can be interpreted to match church doctrine.

Always invoke the Holy Spirit's guidance to back your interpretation, the Holy Spirit is never wrong and to argue against it is irrevocable damnation to eternal torment in Hell.

How to tell if your interpretation is of the Holy Spirit: The interpretation will match church doctrine.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#175061 Aug 20, 2013
I am so glad you have stopped pretending to be a Deist and not a fundie Christian. We all knew you were one Dave thanks for proving us right. Explain how countries that never embraced Christianity still have morals in fact many peoples who never accepted Christianity have better morals than the majority of you and your fellow Christians. You are really so senile to think that 2000 years of Christianity evolved everyone in world Christian or not?

Wow Senile Dave that is ultra low IQ even for you.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. I said you have them because of those generations of moral teachings by religion. It is part of your culture. You are an ethnic Christian whether you believe in Jesus or not. He won.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#175062 Aug 20, 2013
Holy effing sht you are in lala head injury land big time now.

SMH.

Seriously Gramps you really don't believe this right? You are trying to look ultra stupid on purpose right? You really aren't this ignorant right?

Right Dave?
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
No tribe, no political group exclusivity, nor even ritual worship. It was there, but it wasn't part of the teachings. It also ended blood sacrifices.
LCNlin

United States

#175063 Aug 20, 2013
Albert Einstein called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist.
Score one for agnostics!

Scratch an atheist and they often turn out to be agnostic. Richard Dawkins

waiting for proof of atheism,
take your time?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#175064 Aug 20, 2013
LCNlin wrote:
Albert Einstein called himself an agnostic, while disassociating himself from the label atheist.
Score one for agnostics!
Scratch an atheist and they often turn out to be agnostic. Richard Dawkins
waiting for proof of atheism,
take your time?
I am atheist.

That proof enough?

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#175065 Aug 20, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
I am atheist.
That proof enough?
you're dumb

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