Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“The King of R&R”

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#174940
Aug 18, 2013
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> License to be obnoxious. 100% correct. That is all atheism is. An imaginary license to behave in any way they choose with no accountability to anyone or anything. It is the ultimate delusion. To be fair there are a few notable exceptions, Poly, Hiding and Aura come to mind.
Be advised Dave Nelson was hospitlized for 5 years to cure its delusional accusations against the True Believers!

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#174941
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
If you're not claiming his physics is wrong, then no worries.
<quoted text>
Oops! My bad - I thought you wrote "cannot" as in, the universe cannot make itself, but you didn't. So we're not in agreement. Sorry, my mistake. I don't necessarily agree with the statement that the universe can make itself, nor disagree with it, but I cannot negate that myself.
<quoted text>
So Hawking is claiming that gravity preceded time? I didn't understand that he was making that statement.
<quoted text>
Hawking, his name is Hawking. You're confusing it with Dawkins, also an atheist.
Hawking would also add:
- not all events have causes (like quantum events. If I'm not mistaken, he's arguing that the universe came into existence b/c of a quantum event).
<quoted text>
Because all of our scientific theories describe phenomena with absolutely no deities. Now, I cannot say to you "therefore God does not exist" but the way that science describes reality is exactly as if no deities existed.
We have no reason to suspect any special cases that exist where deities must be part of the theoretical framework. Further, if we add them, we lose explanatory power.
Please keep in mind that alone does not disprove deities exist. You remain welcome to that inference.
<quoted text>
I don't really follow you here.
Uhm...you didn't explain why the universe requires a creator, or why it's absurd to think the universe could be something from nothing. I've asked around 3 times now (more if you count w/in the same post).
I did go to the theater to see the movie Wolverine yesterday. It was my day off and i was in the area. The movie took place in Japan. Two female actors and the Wolverine against the bad guys. So you should go see that movie. Actually i didn't think it was all that great but it was fun. I found a book for you on line. Won't cost you a thing except your time.

http://www.tro.dk/getFile.aspx...
Anon

Lakewood, OH

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#174942
Aug 18, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"On another note.
Keep your running shoes handy. Godzilla has been twitching and will be waking soon."
"Awesome. Can't want to hang out with him again."
http://www.weather.com/news/volcano-japan-sak...
"The eruption is the latest in a string of recent natural calamities in Japan. A deadly, record-shattering heat wave has gripped Japan most of this month. Northern Japan suffered deadly landslides earlier this month and has seen additional heavy rainfall and floods in more recent days"
You know I am a figurative writer.
I went through a lot of trouble finding that post. I won't do it again.
Pay attention, little girl. Listen to Dave.
I said he was twitching. While your lectures can put us to sleep, I would suggest you shift to lullabies or an appropriate Buddhist chant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
You really want him to go back sheepy bye. Very soon.
Hey, between Godzilla and Mothra, which one's the bigger badass?

“And I won't watch this anymore”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

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#174943
Aug 18, 2013
 

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discocrisco wrote:
Maybe, the Christians got it right on the God thing. What they didn't know that is there is intelligent life right and God manifested himself in another way than us.
And there is millions of our civilizations among this universe and millions of ways God revealed himself to them
But see it was none of business to know how he did it. It is beyond our feeble little minds. Us humans think we are terminally unique. Guess what. We are not. We are little specks in the infinite, large cosmos.
I tend to agree with your words, but I don't really think God exists at all. Yeah, us humans are not very important. But we don't need to believe in a sky daddy in order to be happy in life.

Since: Sep 08

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#174944
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Bongo wrote:
<quoted text> Ah good ol irresistible force
You can't fight it, Catcher. You can only go with its flow.

Scientific fact.

“Pepsi is better than coke”

Since: Mar 11

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#174945
Aug 18, 2013
 
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Every morning I awake. I don't see why I should be persuading you towards my religious beliefs. This is a tread for you to prove yours. In an era of many people giving their beliefs, I don't rank Atheist in the top 10 of likelihood.
It's not a thread to prove my beliefs. It's a thread to discuss the similarities between faith in religion and faith in atheism, if such a thing exists.

I've written on this exhaustively and settled the matter sometime back.

“Pepsi is better than coke”

Since: Mar 11

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#174946
Aug 18, 2013
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> About time. When defining the age of the universe time is defined linear. 16 bil yrs ago or whatever. Now time is defined as a point on a globe?
Dave doesn't know what he's talking about. He believes every last aspect of the universe to be all about the glory of electromagnetic fields.

But don't take my word for it. Trust in Dave!

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#174947
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey, between Godzilla and Mothra, which one's the bigger badass?
Well, in close quarters, Godzilla for sure. Evolution provided him with limbs and claws, and he is a fair boxer. Not to mention his breath.

I think Godzilla has the evolutionary advantage. About the worst Mothra could do to him is ruin his tuxedo. In the closet.

“Pepsi is better than coke”

Since: Mar 11

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#174948
Aug 18, 2013
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> BS, Why do you make these idiot comparisons? What are you attempting to accomplish? 1+1=2 is true within its own context which is elemental math. You pull it out of context for what purpose other than obfuscation? You introduce a chess game for what? 1+1=2 exists in the same manner as E=MC2 as abstract concepts not time dependent. Because they are abstract they lack causal power. Truth is not time dependent. These constructs point to a source which is also not time dependent. We call that source God.
I'm going to have to go with Poly on this one. 1+1 does not always equal 2, especially when you are adding vectors or liquids.

Math is just a language created by us to quantify reality.

Your last sentences don't make any sense. "Truth is not time dependent." Yes, yes it is.

What constructs? You believe "truth" to be a reified thing?

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#174949
Aug 18, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You can't fight it, Catcher. You can only go with its flow.
Scientific fact.
?

Catcher?

“Pepsi is better than coke”

Since: Mar 11

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#174950
Aug 18, 2013
 
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"On another note.
Keep your running shoes handy. Godzilla has been twitching and will be waking soon."
"Awesome. Can't want to hang out with him again."
http://www.weather.com/news/volcano-japan-sak...
"The eruption is the latest in a string of recent natural calamities in Japan. A deadly, record-shattering heat wave has gripped Japan most of this month. Northern Japan suffered deadly landslides earlier this month and has seen additional heavy rainfall and floods in more recent days"
You know I am a figurative writer.
I went through a lot of trouble finding that post. I won't do it again.
Pay attention, little girl. Listen to Dave.
I said he was twitching. While your lectures can put us to sleep, I would suggest you shift to lullabies or an appropriate Buddhist chant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
You really want him to go back sheepy bye. Very soon.
I'll give you some cuddling time if I can have whatever drugs you're on, oh venerable one.

“Pepsi is better than coke”

Since: Mar 11

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#174951
Aug 18, 2013
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I did go to the theater to see the movie Wolverine yesterday. It was my day off and i was in the area. The movie took place in Japan. Two female actors and the Wolverine against the bad guys. So you should go see that movie. Actually i didn't think it was all that great but it was fun. I found a book for you on line. Won't cost you a thing except your time.
http://www.tro.dk/getFile.aspx...
Thanks, LB. I'm pretty stupid with my time, that's true.

To be honest, I like the Wolverine and his history through the comic books in Japan, but I really hate it when American pop culture portrays a stupid version of our culture. So I'm a bit worried about seeing that film.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

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#174952
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave doesn't know what he's talking about. He believes every last aspect of the universe to be all about the glory of electromagnetic fields.
But don't take my word for it. Trust in Dave!
For the life of me, I can't figure out why you and Polymath give Lightbeamrider the time of day.

What do you think you will accomplish?

Isn't it clear that she's hopelessly committed to her imaginary construct and is unable to respond to reason?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

Russell's Teapot

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#174953
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
If the universe expanded from a singularity, outward in all directions, yes, gravity could be considered as curved spacetime. Would certainly take on that appearance to an observer in the midst. Might not be, but would certainly look that way. One could even think that space would be curved according to the mass distributions it is in line with. It could be more curvy in some places more than others. Could even create, oops, there's that word, forms and shapes.
Gravity has one pretty well defined characteristic. It works in straight lines. Always has.
Your curved spacetime is illusory. Caused by staring at papers too much.
<The Dave Nelson> "I AM BATMAN!"

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#174954
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Dave doesn't know what he's talking about. He believes every last aspect of the universe to be all about the glory of electromagnetic fields.
But don't take my word for it. Trust in Dave!
Sweet love, would you bring me a thimble full of protons, or neutrons, or both, please?

You might have trouble picking them up, but you will figure a way with your scientific knowledge.

That force is responsible for everything you experience, and you have to get through it to get to anything else. It is the skin of matter. It is the only way you can even observe or deduce atomic particles. It IS existence. Don't sell it short.

“Pepsi is better than coke”

Since: Mar 11

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#174955
Aug 18, 2013
 
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> I did go to the theater to see the movie Wolverine yesterday. It was my day off and i was in the area. The movie took place in Japan. Two female actors and the Wolverine against the bad guys. So you should go see that movie. Actually i didn't think it was all that great but it was fun. I found a book for you on line. Won't cost you a thing except your time.
http://www.tro.dk/getFile.aspx...
Uhm...just a couple quick comments:

1 Japanese Zen Buddhists don't believe God is all, so that book misrepresents them. You have to invoke a lot of theology to reach that point and, as I'm sure you already know, theology isn't a Buddhist way of thinking.

2 You may disagree, but when Christians talk of faith they mean something more than "I have faith in the doctor." Your faith in God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit is deeply meaningful to you and moves you in ways that "I'm sure this pill will work, that doctor wears a white suit!" cannot convey. So I have some issues equating the "faith" atheists have to the "faith" Christians have.

I mean, isn't it derogatory to you? Don't you think your faith conveys more than what that book suggests is mine?

3 The book claims that reality is knowable, that objective truth exists and it is found through religion. I disagree on all points.

4 I do agree with him that some (my word, not his) "truth" (his word, not mine) exists regardless of our desires. His conclusion, that Christianity is the one, true religion and that you have to respect other's religious beliefs anyways, is thoughtless, self serving and without merit. His argument here is poor - and grossly oversimplified.

4a. This, in particular, is a ridiculous error in logic:

"truth exists, and it is absolute and undeniable. To say “truth cannot be known” is self-defeating because that very statement claims to be a known, absolute truth." pp. 62, top

It's circular logic and relying on assumptions and claims he made that he didn't support and are false. If anything, all science has demonstrated that "truth" is relative to the observer - quite a long time ago. So he's using outdated and oversimplified philosophy here to support a theological argument.

5 I apologize, I sort of gave up at this point. I find this book quite hard to read - it's clearly aimed at the religions and written in a sort of sermon way.

6. However, I'll keep it. If you wish to discuss any particular paragraph or chapter, bring it up and you and I can banter about it.

Thank you for linking it.

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#174956
Aug 18, 2013
 
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
For the life of me, I can't figure out why you and Polymath give Lightbeamrider the time of day.
What do you think you will accomplish?
Isn't it clear that she's hopelessly committed to her imaginary construct and is unable to respond to reason?
I must have some kind of psychosis to come here. Is there a cure, Catcher?

“The eye has it...”

Since: May 09

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#174957
Aug 18, 2013
 

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<The Dave Nelson> "Blaaa, Blu Bu blaahhr, Bee Buba Bla Bla!... RAMAMAMLALA..."
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll give you some cuddling time if I can have whatever drugs you're on, oh venerable one.
It's called MYOPIC EGO.

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#174958
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll give you some cuddling time if I can have whatever drugs you're on, oh venerable one.
Godzilla farts more when he stirs in his sleep.

I warned you. But don't let that be the last thing on your mind. Focus on surviving.

I would suggest a long and distant vacation, starting real soon, until the week after the Fall equinox.

You have a SO, so I'm not sharing.

Since: Jun 13

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#174959
Aug 18, 2013
 
Robert Stevens wrote:
<quoted text>
Every morning I awake. I don't see why I should be persuading you towards my religious beliefs. This is a tread for you to prove yours. In an era of many people giving their beliefs, I don't rank Atheist in the top 10 of likelihood.
This is not a thread to have to prove anyone's belief. This is an atheist forum...it's made for discussions of a non-religious nature to be held amongst people of who are not religious. Of course anyone can discuss what they like to, but this is not a thread or a forum for proof to be provided to anyone.

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