Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#173172 Aug 1, 2013
Ah the guy who says the bible never says Jesus was born in a house. Lol!
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>Correction: the number of *reported* violent crimes is down. I'm back.
:)
Thinking

UK

#173173 Aug 1, 2013
Did christianity.
It was full of obstacles to learning.
I'm off exploring.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism isn't the default position of humanity. The default position of humanity is exploration. If you put an average 8 month old baby on the floor you will see that the child's natural instinct is to explore the surroundings. The child won't sit there in doubt of whether anything exists. The child won't doubt whether or not he or she can climb or crawl. The child will explore and move wherever there aren't any obstacles, and will do so with an inquisitive open mind.
Atheism corresponds to the obstacles placed in the mental path of exploration by the individual. Obstacles to faith are self-imposed obstacles.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173174 Aug 1, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Ah the guy who says the bible never says Jesus was born in a house. Lol!
<quoted text>
Show me where in the gospels there is any indicator that Jesus was born in a house. Yes that's a challenge. Let's see how you handle it.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173175 Aug 1, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Did christianity.
It was full of obstacles to learning.
I'm off exploring.
<quoted text>
The obstacles were yours.
Thinking

UK

#173176 Aug 1, 2013
That's why I removed them.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
The obstacles were yours.
Thinking

UK

#173177 Aug 1, 2013
Warehouse, whorehouse, who cares?
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Show me where in the gospels there is any indicator that Jesus was born in a house. Yes that's a challenge. Let's see how you handle it.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#173178 Aug 1, 2013
Matthew chapter 2 Jesus in born at Mary and Joseph's home in Bethlehem and even lived there for two years before fleeing to Egypt. In Luke it says they lived in Nazareth and stayed in a Bethlehem manger because there were no Inns available during their traveling.

For your uneducated apologetic viewpoint to work you have to say that the manger was so great they stayed there for two years abandoning their home in Nazareth.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>Show me where in the gospels there is any indicator that Jesus was born in a house. Yes that's a challenge. Let's see how you handle it.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#173179 Aug 1, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism isn't the default position of humanity. The default position of humanity is exploration. If you put an average 8 month old baby on the floor you will see that the child's natural instinct is to explore the surroundings. The child won't sit there in doubt of whether anything exists. The child won't doubt whether or not he or she can climb or crawl. The child will explore and move wherever there aren't any obstacles, and will do so with an inquisitive open mind.
Atheism corresponds to the obstacles placed in the mental path of exploration by the individual. Obstacles to faith are self-imposed obstacles.
Not at all. Atheism is the recognition that the available evidence is insufficient to prove the existence of deities. That naturally leads to a lack of belief in deities. It does not cut off investigation is some evidence does appear.

In fact, atheism follows naturally from the recognition that all phenomena we have seen can be explained by natural explanations. So, at the very least, it isn't unreasonable to test such explanations before any supernatural ones. And that is without considering whether supernatural explanations are explanations at all (being untestable).

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#173180 Aug 1, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. Atheism is the recognition that the available evidence is insufficient to prove the existence of deities. That naturally leads to a lack of belief in deities. It does not cut off investigation is some evidence does appear.
In fact, atheism follows naturally from the recognition that all phenomena we have seen can be explained by natural explanations. So, at the very least, it isn't unreasonable to test such explanations before any supernatural ones. And that is without considering whether supernatural explanations are explanations at all (being untestable).

That sounds like the definition of free thought not atheism.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173181 Aug 1, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Matthew chapter 2 Jesus in born at Mary and Joseph's home in Bethlehem and even lived there for two years before fleeing to Egypt. In Luke it says they lived in Nazareth and stayed in a Bethlehem manger because there were no Inns available during their traveling.
For your uneducated apologetic viewpoint to work you have to say that the manger was so great they stayed there for two years abandoning their home in Nazareth.
<quoted text>
Matthew Chapter 2 says *NOTHING* of the birth narrative. Matthew Chapter 2 is about the visit from the Magi and the escape into Egypt and subsequent return to Nazareth. The birth narrative in Matthew is very sparse and so doesn't say what you're claiming.

The Luke narrative expands the account so we see why Joseph was traveling to Bethlehem. Mary and Joseph traveled to Bethlehem for the census. This would be like you traveling to Cleveland, Ohio with your wife and her giving birth there, even though your home is in Kentucky.

Your argumentum ad hominem and lack of understanding of ancient writing styles has exposed the weakness of your position.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#173182 Aug 1, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at all. Atheism is the recognition that the available evidence is insufficient to prove the existence of deities. That naturally leads to a lack of belief in deities. It does not cut off investigation is some evidence does appear.
In fact, atheism follows naturally from the recognition that all phenomena we have seen can be explained by natural explanations. So, at the very least, it isn't unreasonable to test such explanations before any supernatural ones. And that is without considering whether supernatural explanations are explanations at all (being untestable).
I'm inclined to agree that natural causes should be considered before supernatural causes. But insisting that supernatural causes have to be testable to verify their existence seems extreme to me. If there are supernatural beings, they must be capable of free movement between our time/space existence and another plane of existence. Paranormal investigators use thermal scanners and sound recording equipment, and have developed fair criteria to determine whether or not an event is natural or supernatural. The methodologies are constantly being evaluated and improved to look for fraudulent practices in the field environment.

I find that the charge of "insufficient evidence" is too much of a convenient argument. It appears to be a philosophical and emotional escape hatch for the atheist who doesn't wish to find himself or herself cornered by evidence that is difficult to refute. It allows for too much "subjective value" which is emotionally based at the core, while grasping for whatever naturalist philosophies will support the atheistic worldview.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#173183 Aug 1, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists have been around longer than you godbots, stupid.
If there were **no** faith in gods?
All would be atheists.
Just as babies are **born** atheist-- having no faith in the lies you hategodbots tell.
some helpful quotes (IMO) that I know annoy religious fanatics:

"A fanatic is one who can't change their mind and won't change the subject."
- Winston Churchill

True wisdom is less presuming than folly. The wise man doubteth often, and changeth his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubteth not; he knoweth all things but his own ignorance."
~ Akhenaton

Ma'am, there's only one God, and I'm pretty sure he doesn't dress like that.
-Steve Rogers “The Avengers

Its bad manners to say “I love you” with a mouth full of lies.
-Seen on Facebook

Man creates his own demons from the part of him what’s closest to his animal fears. He takes them to bed with him, and they lie down together for a fit-filled sleep.
-Waddie Greywolf

"People take different roads seeking happiness and fulfillment. Just because they aren't on your road doesn't mean they've gotten lost"
-The Dalai Lama

"Be transformed by the renewing of your mind."
Romans 12:2

Namaste my friend.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#173184 Aug 1, 2013
Snevaeh legna wrote:
<quoted text>
No they have not... I see your still... dumb, lol.
I'm back...
Thank you for reminding us of one of the smartest saying plumbers have ever invented.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#173185 Aug 1, 2013
EXPERT wrote:
<quoted text>
Settle down cupcake...
To all the Holy Rollers who hate gays, Muslims, Jews, Hispanics, other denominations & immigrants; who defend people who break the law like those officers in Louisiana and the clerk in CA or those ones in WA and CO.:

103 Bible Verses about Obeying Authority
http://www.openbible.info/topics/obeying_auth ...

Did you ever play Monopoly? Did you save your get out of jail free cards.

Now, to paraphrase the words of Hulk Hogan "whatcha gonna do when JudgementDay-mania runs wild on you?”

Matthew 25:31-46
The Sheep and the Goats
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right,‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply,‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 “Then he will say to those on his left,‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 “They also will answer,‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 “He will reply,‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Jesus talked of forgiveness, not making a religion out of finger pointing and keeping lists of others sins.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#173186 Aug 1, 2013
Snevaeh legna wrote:
<quoted text>
No they have not... I see your still... dumb, lol.
I'm back...
103 Bible Verses about Obeying Authority
http://www.openbible.info/topics/obeying_auth ...

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#173187 Aug 1, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
I always love it when I see a loving Christian response. You should look behind your back I think Satan is very close with that post!
True Bible©
1. Do you believe in God?
A.Yes, I believe in the one TRUE God.
B.Yes, I have my own religious beliefs.
C.I'm not really sure but a sword to my throat would convince me.
D.Not, I prefer rationality.
2. Do you believe in MY God?
A. Oh totally.(That's a fine sword you have there).
B. Nah, I already have one of those.
C.There is no God. Gasp!
D. My ass itches
3. Do you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior?
A. You bet! One time, two times, three times my savior!
B.Once in a while.
C. Jesus who?
D. No, I'll opt out.
4. Have you read the King James Bible?
A. Yes! Like OMG, it's my freaking life!
B. Yeah, it was decent.
C. Yes, but The Cat in the Hat was better.
D. I'd rather eat a thumbtack sandwich than read that garbage.
5. The TRUE meaning of the 6th Commandment:
A. Thou shalt not kill anyone for any reason.
B.Thou shalt not kill anyone except for the people who don't believe in the same God you believe in or people who don't believe in God at all.
C. Thou shalt not kill except if they really piss you off.
D. Slay away! More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason in history.
E. God killed all life on earth, that she created, except Eight inexperienced shipbuilders, One of which - get this - 900 years old!
The salvation of your eternal soul depends on how you answer the quiz.
I just hope you don't include me as one of those Christians. I'm gay so that really messes with their "Love they neighbor" slogans.

They often say love the sinner hate the sin. But it's me they pick on. I am a person of Faith. I believe we have a spiritual side and a soul. You may agree or disagree, I don't care. I respect your right to have your beliefs just as I expect others to respect my right to believe what I wish about abstract ideas such as religion and spiritual things.

May I suggest that rather than tossing insults at them, learn to do as I did. They use their religion as a weapon for control. Take that control from them by using their own holy texts as a defense against their own failings in practicing their faith.

Biblegateway is an excellent source. It provides multiple translations of every verse. And those translations how just how much these "experts" really DON'T know.

Internal peace is an essential first step to achieving peace in the world. How do you cultivate it? It's very simple. In the first place by realizing clearly that all mankind is one, that human beings in every country are members of one and the same family.
- His Holiness the Dalai Lama

Namaste

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#173188 Aug 1, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm inclined to agree that natural causes should be considered before supernatural causes. But insisting that supernatural causes have to be testable to verify their existence seems extreme to me. If there are supernatural beings, they must be capable of free movement between our time/space existence and another plane of existence. Paranormal investigators use thermal scanners and sound recording equipment, and have developed fair criteria to determine whether or not an event is natural or supernatural. The methodologies are constantly being evaluated and improved to look for fraudulent practices in the field environment.
And if such scanners pick up on something, it has to be *natural* because those scanners picked up on it. Testability is one of the rock solid things required to have knowledge.
I find that the charge of "insufficient evidence" is too much of a convenient argument. It appears to be a philosophical and emotional escape hatch for the atheist who doesn't wish to find himself or herself cornered by evidence that is difficult to refute. It allows for too much "subjective value" which is emotionally based at the core, while grasping for whatever naturalist philosophies will support the atheistic worldview.
I disagree. To put aside the testability is to allow for people to use the emotionally based belief in a supernatural to grasp at whatever supernatural philosophies that support their worldview.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#173189 Aug 1, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism isn't the default position of humanity. The default position of humanity is exploration. If you put an average 8 month old baby on the floor you will see that the child's natural instinct is to explore the surroundings. The child won't sit there in doubt of whether anything exists. The child won't doubt whether or not he or she can climb or crawl. The child will explore and move wherever there aren't any obstacles, and will do so with an inquisitive open mind.
Atheism corresponds to the obstacles placed in the mental path of exploration by the individual. Obstacles to faith are self-imposed obstacles.
Great post. May I have your permission to use this when I see my fellow 'christians' and others attack people who won't walk in goose step with their Fundamental religious fascism?

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#173190 Aug 1, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm inclined to agree that natural causes should be considered before supernatural causes. But insisting that supernatural causes have to be testable to verify their existence seems extreme to me. If there are supernatural beings, they must be capable of free movement between our time/space existence and another plane of existence. Paranormal investigators use thermal scanners and sound recording equipment, and have developed fair criteria to determine whether or not an event is natural or supernatural. The methodologies are constantly being evaluated and improved to look for fraudulent practices in the field environment.
I find that the charge of "insufficient evidence" is too much of a convenient argument. It appears to be a philosophical and emotional escape hatch for the atheist who doesn't wish to find himself or herself cornered by evidence that is difficult to refute. It allows for too much "subjective value" which is emotionally based at the core, while grasping for whatever naturalist philosophies will support the atheistic worldview.
If it is demonstrable or observable it is testable.
If it is not demonstrable or observable there is nothing there , what except a claim of an invisible thing. Russel's teapot or the IPU yeah their real. Not a philosophical issue , but it is a tangible or reality issue. You do live in reality do you not?

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#173191 Aug 1, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Matthew chapter 2 Jesus in born at Mary and Joseph's home in Bethlehem and even lived there for two years before fleeing to Egypt. In Luke it says they lived in Nazareth and stayed in a Bethlehem manger because there were no Inns available during their traveling.
For your uneducated apologetic viewpoint to work you have to say that the manger was so great they stayed there for two years abandoning their home in Nazareth.
<quoted text>
I didn't see that. What version do you get that from?

Matthew 2
New International Version (NIV)
The Magi Visit the Messiah

2 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi[a] from the east came to Jerusalem 2 and asked,“Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.”

3 When King Herod heard this he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him. 4 When he had called together all the people’s chief priests and teachers of the law, he asked them where the Messiah was to be born. 5 “In Bethlehem in Judea,” they replied,“for this is what the prophet has written:

6 “‘But you, Bethlehem, in the land of Judah,
are by no means least among the rulers of Judah;
for out of you will come a ruler
who will shepherd my people Israel.’[b]”
7 Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared. 8 He sent them to Bethlehem and said,“Go and search carefully for the child. As soon as you find him, report to me, so that I too may go and worship him.”

9 After they had heard the king, they went on their way, and the star they had seen when it rose went ahead of them until it stopped over the place where the child was. 10 When they saw the star, they were overjoyed. 11 On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold, frankincense and myrrh. 12 And having been warned in a dream not to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another route.

The Escape to Egypt

13 When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream.“Get up,” he said,“take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”

14 So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15 where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet:“Out of Egypt I called my son.”[c]

16 When Herod realized that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was furious, and he gave orders to kill all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi. 17 Then what was said through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

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