Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#172843 Jul 23, 2013
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
You're lying to yourself.
No he is not, he is stating FACT, or perhaps you can show ANY occurrence of the name Moses being mentioned in Egyptian history.

Or perhaps you have some secret stash of documents that over rule the Roman archives and several Roman historians. Remember that at the time in question the Roman administration was the most prolific producers of documentation ever seen prior to the 20th century.

You also cannot provide evidence that you god exists yet alone is the only true god

You also cannot provide evidence that the babble is the only true religious book, far from it, much of the evidence shows the babble, both OT and NT to be incorrect.

You also cannot, with all honesty contradict Imhotep’s statement that science is enquiry based and religion is presupposition

So no, he is not lying to himself, he is stating FACT

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172845 Jul 23, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, bullshit. There is no other way to describe your lame excuse here.
I expected better from you, than this tired old excuse.
Skeptics may take longer to come around-- but if there really **is** evidence in support of something?
They **will** come around.
Clearly, your god is incapable of ... being convincing.
I disagree. I think that argument cuts both ways. Perhaps it is we who don't want to be convinced. As an example, I asked you if you would consider listening to an interesting perspective from a pastor. You declined, and I respect you and your decision enough to not push it upon you. Yet, at the same time, I see an internal inconsistency in your philosophical position. Please do not think this is an attack on your integrity. It's just an observation that puzzles me.

Your statement was that you wouldn't listen to the podcast on the A PRIORI assumption that the pastor's presentation was based upon emotion. Yet in one of your recent replies to me, you stated that the evil and suffering in this world is offensive to you, and is a key reason in why you lost your faith.

Evil and suffering are subjects that affect our sensibilities. Or at least they should. Those who aren't offended by evil and suffering are usually considered to be pathological. This is where I notice an inconsistent philosophy. You're justifiably emotionally offended by evil and suffering, but yet you prefer not to listen to a pastor's podcast on the A PRIORI ASSUMPTION that his presentation is purely emotional.

Do you see why I am puzzled? Am I missing something here?
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#172846 Jul 23, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:

<quoted text>That's another point of contention. This is an assumption based on perception. Our assumption and perception in modern society is that every document must be read literally. We even read novels that way. Metaphor isn't easily recognized. That doesn't mean that the OT isn't still the word of God. The problem isn't with the writing. The problem is with our own understanding of the writing.

In the OT, God comes across as angry and violent because of the style of writing and ancient understandings. Hyperbole is a prime example of this. I've written about this before. Hyperbole is a method of exaggeration to make a specific point or highlight a concept.

So God had an important message for all of mankind, and how does he convey this message? In Metaphor? Really? Is this the very best way to deliver such an important message?

So this ancient method of writing means that men wrote the bible? Uneducated, ignorant men from a backward desert region during the bronze age? Why would an all powerful God need to use hyperbole in delivering his message?

That this extremely important message from God was resigned to ancient text, to me is the nail in the coffin Christianity. Hyperbole, Metaphor, why not just concise, plain, easy to understand language, and delivered in a way that all people of all nationality and race could easily understand? Is this to much to expect of a supreme being, one who created the cosmos and is all powerful?

Can you begin to see the twisting and turning you're are doing in trying to justify the immoralities and cruelties contained in the bible. Always a disclaimer with you, always hidden meanings, special pleading, twisting and turning every which way to make things you believe in come out right.

A message worthy of a supreme being would have been delivered in clear easy to understand language for all peoples of the planet, and delivered not to ignorant shepherds in a backwards desert region, but to a thriving enlightened civilization like China.

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#172847 Jul 23, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Hate speech duly reported.
You continue to show you **not** a religion of love-- but one of hate and abuse.
hate speech is not a violation of topix TOS.

good luck with that report.

But my main point was to pass this along to you and others.
Two days ago I signed up for membership on the New Republic website and was accepted. I then posted a response pointing out the errors in their anti gay stance and unchristian like behavior based on 103 Bible verses on Obeying Authority
http://www.openbible.info/topics/obeying_auth ...

today I just found my privileges on their site have been revoked.

Color me not surprised!

I am an editor here on Topix. I edit 3 forums. Ever since the SCOTUS decision and this sudden 'upgrade' to the website, I no longer can access the editors tools on two forums (FL and Religion). Yet Topix insists I am still an editor there. I have had no problems on the 3rd forum (the G&L) however.

Backlash or glitch?

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172848 Jul 23, 2013
blacklagoon wrote:
So God had an important message for all of mankind, and how does he convey this message? In Metaphor? Really? Is this the very best way to deliver such an important message?
In what way should God have delivered His message? Should He have waited for radio and satellite television to be invented? Should He just appear suddenly and without warning with a cosmic megaphone?
Should He use subliminal messages, dreams, visions?

What language should it be in? Every language or just the ones important to modern Western civilization?

In what time period should He appear? Should He appear just in our own time because we're the only people that matter? Are all those ancient bronze age goat herders unworthy of such an important message? Why should He just appear in China? Are only the Chinese people worthy?

Should He appear in human form or as a lion or as a penguin?

Should God forcefully (like a tyrant) compel men to write or subtly and peacefully? Should He tamper with their personalities or allow them to write in accordance with their capabilities and personalities?

Should He just stand up and make an announcement every 10 minutes and strike something with lightning? Should He ring a bell like a town crier from the 17th and 18th centuries?

Should He interrupt our favorite TV shows with live updates and assume that we'll all come flocking to His call?

How would you do it?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#172849 Jul 23, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
In what way should God have delivered His message? Should He have waited for radio and satellite television to be invented? Should He just appear suddenly and without warning with a cosmic megaphone?
Should He use subliminal messages, dreams, visions?
What language should it be in? Every language or just the ones important to modern Western civilization?
In what time period should He appear? Should He appear just in our own time because we're the only people that matter? Are all those ancient bronze age goat herders unworthy of such an important message? Why should He just appear in China? Are only the Chinese people worthy?
Should He appear in human form or as a lion or as a penguin?
Should God forcefully (like a tyrant) compel men to write or subtly and peacefully? Should He tamper with their personalities or allow them to write in accordance with their capabilities and personalities?
Should He just stand up and make an announcement every 10 minutes and strike something with lightning? Should He ring a bell like a town crier from the 17th and 18th centuries?
Should He interrupt our favorite TV shows with live updates and assume that we'll all come flocking to His call?
How would you do it?
Funny how the actual way that God chooses to do things is indistinguishable from non-existence.

What is the *test* for the existence of a deity? What observations distinguish a universe with a deity from one without?

Here is another way to ask the question: what test could we perform that, if it goes the way that surprises you, would be sufficient to demonstrate to you that your deity does NOT exist? In what way is your belief falsifiable? How would you know if you are *wrong*?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#172850 Jul 23, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree. I think that argument cuts both ways. Perhaps it is we who don't want to be convinced. As an example, I asked you if you would consider listening to an interesting perspective from a pastor. You declined, and I respect you and your decision enough to not push it upon you. Yet, at the same time, I see an internal inconsistency in your philosophical position. Please do not think this is an attack on your integrity. It's just an observation that puzzles me.
Your statement was that you wouldn't listen to the podcast on the A PRIORI assumption that the pastor's presentation was based upon emotion. Yet in one of your recent replies to me, you stated that the evil and suffering in this world is offensive to you, and is a key reason in why you lost your faith.
Evil and suffering are subjects that affect our sensibilities. Or at least they should. Those who aren't offended by evil and suffering are usually considered to be pathological. This is where I notice an inconsistent philosophy. You're justifiably emotionally offended by evil and suffering, but yet you prefer not to listen to a pastor's podcast on the A PRIORI ASSUMPTION that his presentation is purely emotional.
Do you see why I am puzzled? Am I missing something here?
I think what you are missing is that our desires do not determine truth, but they *do* determine morality. Any deity that allows the suffering in the word, especially the suffering that is NOT man-made, to continue is either not all-powerful, not all-knowing, or not all-good. Even if such a deity exists, it would be unworthy of worship. Fear and contempt are possibilities, but not worship or even 'trust'.

DNF

“Judge more and you love less”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH-Baltimore MD-S.Fla

#172851 Jul 23, 2013
Titus 3
9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

10 A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11 Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172852 Jul 23, 2013
I'll be on vacation for a week starting this evening. I wish everyone a good week filled with peace and prosperity.
Thinking

York, UK

#172853 Jul 23, 2013
If only your god hadn't cursed us with all those languages...
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
In what way should God have delivered His message? Should He have waited for radio and satellite television to be invented? Should He just appear suddenly and without warning with a cosmic megaphone?
Should He use subliminal messages, dreams, visions?
What language should it be in? Every language or just the ones important to modern Western civilization?
In what time period should He appear? Should He appear just in our own time because we're the only people that matter? Are all those ancient bronze age goat herders unworthy of such an important message? Why should He just appear in China? Are only the Chinese people worthy?
Should He appear in human form or as a lion or as a penguin?
Should God forcefully (like a tyrant) compel men to write or subtly and peacefully? Should He tamper with their personalities or allow them to write in accordance with their capabilities and personalities?
Should He just stand up and make an announcement every 10 minutes and strike something with lightning? Should He ring a bell like a town crier from the 17th and 18th centuries?
Should He interrupt our favorite TV shows with live updates and assume that we'll all come flocking to His call?
How would you do it?

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#172854 Jul 23, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
I'll be on vacation for a week starting this evening. I wish everyone a good week filled with peace and prosperity.
Have a wonderful vacation :D

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#172855 Jul 23, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
In what way should God have delivered His message? Should He have waited for radio and satellite television to be invented? Should He just appear suddenly and without warning with a cosmic megaphone?
Should He use subliminal messages, dreams, visions?
What language should it be in? Every language or just the ones important to modern Western civilization?
In what time period should He appear? Should He appear just in our own time because we're the only people that matter? Are all those ancient bronze age goat herders unworthy of such an important message? Why should He just appear in China? Are only the Chinese people worthy?
Should He appear in human form or as a lion or as a penguin?
Should God forcefully (like a tyrant) compel men to write or subtly and peacefully? Should He tamper with their personalities or allow them to write in accordance with their capabilities and personalities?
Should He just stand up and make an announcement every 10 minutes and strike something with lightning? Should He ring a bell like a town crier from the 17th and 18th centuries?
Should He interrupt our favorite TV shows with live updates and assume that we'll all come flocking to His call?
How would you do it?
It's not rocket science - just prove the god yourre lying to everyone about.

You can't give a straight answer to this question because you have no morals and no sense of honesty or decency.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#172856 Jul 23, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
In what way should God have delivered His message? Should He have waited for radio and satellite television to be invented? Should He just appear suddenly and without warning with a cosmic megaphone?
Should He use subliminal messages, dreams, visions?
What language should it be in? Every language or just the ones important to modern Western civilization?
In what time period should He appear? Should He appear just in our own time because we're the only people that matter? Are all those ancient bronze age goat herders unworthy of such an important message? Why should He just appear in China? Are only the Chinese people worthy?
Should He appear in human form or as a lion or as a penguin?
Should God forcefully (like a tyrant) compel men to write or subtly and peacefully? Should He tamper with their personalities or allow them to write in accordance with their capabilities and personalities?
Should He just stand up and make an announcement every 10 minutes and strike something with lightning? Should He ring a bell like a town crier from the 17th and 18th centuries?
Should He interrupt our favorite TV shows with live updates and assume that we'll all come flocking to His call?
How would you do it?
So, you can think of no way in which an all powerful God could deliver to all of mankind this important message. According to you and other Gods powers are endless. You have NO problem claiming this being created the entire cosmos. Universes and galaxies uncountable, distances unmeasurable, a cosmos who's scope we cannot begin to contemplate, yet he has trouble delivering an important message to all of mankind?...really?

You don't understand how foolish this is. Are you telling me this all powerful being can come up with no better way to deliver this message than ancient texts? Ancient texts who by your own admission are veiled in Metaphor, and hidden meanings, who's true meaning must be deciphered from hyperbole?

I can imagine a God delivering this message to the Thriving enlighten culture like China, were his words would NOT be hidden in metaphoric bullshit. I'm not sure why it's not obvious to you that the bible was written by homophobic old men, given the childlike view of the universe and unceasing tyranny of a vengeful deity. Not being able to see the bible as being promoted by a self-serving male dominated bureaucracy deriving its authority from anonymously authored ancient tales and antiquated edits.
blacklagoon

Brookline, MA

#172857 Jul 23, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
In what way should God have delivered His message? Should He have waited for radio and satellite television to be invented? Should He just appear suddenly and without warning with a cosmic megaphone?
Should He use subliminal messages, dreams, visions?
What language should it be in? Every language or just the ones important to modern Western civilization?
In what time period should He appear? Should He appear just in our own time because we're the only people that matter? Are all those ancient bronze age goat herders unworthy of such an important message? Why should He just appear in China? Are only the Chinese people worthy?
Should He appear in human form or as a lion or as a penguin?
Should God forcefully (like a tyrant) compel men to write or subtly and peacefully? Should He tamper with their personalities or allow them to write in accordance with their capabilities and personalities?
Should He just stand up and make an announcement every 10 minutes and strike something with lightning? Should He ring a bell like a town crier from the 17th and 18th centuries?
Should He interrupt our favorite TV shows with live updates and assume that we'll all come flocking to His call?
How would you do it?
So, you can think of no way in which an all powerful God could deliver to all of mankind this important message. According to you and other Gods powers are endless. You have NO problem claiming this being created the entire cosmos. Universes and galaxies uncountable, distances unmeasurable, a cosmos who's scope we cannot begin to contemplate, yet he has trouble delivering an important message to all of mankind?...really?

You don't understand how foolish this is. Are you telling me this all powerful being can come up with no better way to deliver this message than ancient texts? Ancient texts who by your own admission are veiled in Metaphor, and hidden meanings, who's true meaning must be deciphered from hyperbole?

I can imagine a God delivering this message to the Thriving enlighten culture like China, were his words would NOT be hidden in metaphoric bullshit. I'm not sure why it's not obvious to you that the bible was written by homophobic old men, given the childlike view of the universe and unceasing tyranny of a vengeful deity. Not being able to see the bible as being promoted by a self-serving male dominated bureaucracy deriving its authority from anonymously authored ancient tales and antiquated edicts.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#172858 Jul 23, 2013
Thinking wrote:
If only your god hadn't cursed us with all those languages...
<quoted text>
Quite an amazing lack of foresight.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#172859 Jul 23, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I think what you are missing is that our desires do not determine truth, but they *do* determine morality. Any deity that allows the suffering in the word, especially the suffering that is NOT man-made, to continue is either not all-powerful, not all-knowing, or not all-good. Even if such a deity exists, it would be unworthy of worship. Fear and contempt are possibilities, but not worship or even 'trust'.
Amusing.

Tell us what suffering in this world is NOT ultimately man-made.

What you are missing, at least in the Abrahamic tradition, is that man was created to mind the garden, to maintain it and the world. The garden and all the little animals. He got fired and was tossed out to scratch out his own living.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172860 Jul 23, 2013
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
You have faith that you are right about there being no God.
nope. All I ask?

Is for PROOF that your god is REAL.

You have NO PROOF of ANY kind.

So you abuse me with your hateful ugly postings....

... and the above? Is all I read of your ugly today.

Buh-bye.
xianity is EVIL

Windsor, Canada

#172861 Jul 23, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amusing.
Tell us what suffering in this world is NOT ultimately man-made.
What you are missing, at least in the Abrahamic tradition, is that man was created to mind the garden, to maintain it and the world. The garden and all the little animals. He got fired and was tossed out to scratch out his own living.
did man made earthquakes and tsunamis,volcanic eruptions,,,how about mosquitos and diseases?

someones missing something indeed,,and its you Bucko...

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#172862 Jul 23, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amusing.
Tell us what suffering in this world is NOT ultimately man-made.
What you are missing, at least in the Abrahamic tradition, is that man was created to mind the garden, to maintain it and the world. The garden and all the little animals. He got fired and was tossed out to scratch out his own living.
What garden you moron? I guess you're one of the clowns that pulls the easy tab while having a grip on the no slip intelligent designed banana, you know because it fit's your hand, and plugs your pie hole perfectly , and even has the curve toward your face. Doofus!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172863 Jul 23, 2013
Thinking wrote:
If MaccyDs were trying to target our tastes, they're getting it wrong now. 70% of sit down restaurant meals on a Saturday night in Britain are Indian.
<quoted text>
Really?

I can easily understand the appeal-- I rather like Indian food.

But around these parts? It's all Mexico baby! We Oklahomanians love us our Mexican cuisine.

We even eat it as fast food....!

:)

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