Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Atheist

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#172739
Jul 21, 2013
 
Infinite Force wrote:
If you have no evidence to prove life origins then that mean you are a person of FAITH. At least the Christians and other documented religions admit they are people of FAITH.
Hah, we dont have faith in evidence and logic, we have trust.
Faith is blindly believing, trust is believing because the material, person, etc. has shown progress,so we take this and we use logic to think: "since this person has been faithful, or since this theory has much scientific proof, I can trust it". On the other hand, faith is thinking: "Although there is no proof or evidence in this supernatural being, I shall choose to believe in it because of whatever illogical reason, such as eternal life, or a freebe for doing nothing in my lifetime".

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

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#172740
Jul 21, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I agree with you-- the most optimistic dates appear to be no earlier than 60CE. And possibly as late as 120CE.
But even 60CE is too little, too late-- with an average lifespan of barely 30 years? Likely nobody alive, by 60CE, who was at the alleged events.
What are the sources for determining lifespans? How do we know that 30 was the average? I would agree with this for the region of Judea before the Roman conquest. But after the Roman conquest? I'm quite sure that we could expect better medical treatment, a better water delivery and sanitation system for which Rome was famous and unrivaled in engineering, and given all of these factors, shouldn't we expect that the mortality rates would drop and life expectancies to increase in proportion?

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13...

http://www.odyeda.com/English/JewishTimeline....

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

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#172741
Jul 21, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
I think your biggest problem is you rely far too much on personal bias and belief. This is fine if you want to discuss your faith with fellow Christians, but if you want to step into our world based in observable reality you will need facts.
I can tell you rely on presupposition thinking that others deep down agree with you. This is childish and makes a fool of out of you.
When wanting to debate or sway an atheist you will need to use testable, verifiable data not personal opinions and your habit of dodging questions and deliberately changing the subject when you are stumped, one of your favorites we see, only makes you look foolish.
I grew up in a friendly little baptist church. So your tactics are nothing new for me as the youth ministers and even boss man preacher would do the same thing. Avoid questions, give excises why they didn't want to answer them and change the subject.
Of anyone would try to do that in any other circumstance they would be laughed out of the room.
Let me show you an example of how you look.
Teacher: Little Johnny? Stand up and tell us what is 8 x 8.
Little Johnny: 8 times 8 teacher is a construct of your mind and really has no certifiable answer.
Teacher: Little Johnny we are not discussing philosophy we are having a multiplication test on Friday. Do you know the answer?
Little Johnny: We have several experts across the world who would look at that from a variety of standpoints. Here is just one, Mr. Smith of Sacramento California is studying the stray cats in his neighborhood. He noticed that when he gave them milk and cat food compared to milk and tuna fish they would...
Teacher: That has no relevance to your multiplication test. Do you know the answer or not?
Little Johnny: I have answered your question, sorry if it didn't meet your expectations. If you would look at the stray cats when they had cat food and milk compared to..
Class: Sigh....
<quoted text>
Wow I'm glad you like me so much!:)

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

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#172742
Jul 21, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
When wanting to debate or sway an atheist you will need to use testable, verifiable data not personal opinions and your habit of dodging questions and deliberately changing the subject when you are stumped, one of your favorites we see, only makes you look foolish.
I grew up in a friendly little baptist church. So your tactics are nothing new for me as the youth ministers and even boss man preacher would do the same thing. Avoid questions, give excises why they didn't want to answer them and change the subject.
You give yourself way too much credit and importance. What makes you think I would waste my time trying to convince you of anything? I keep telling you I'm not here to convince you or convert you. I've answered many of your questions. Just not in the way you want me to.

And here's a little special announcement just for YOU. Since you seem to be my biggest fan here,(cough)(yes that was sarcasm) I've decided that since you're so cocky and sure of yourself, you must already know everything. Uh-oh. That can mean only one thing. If you know everything, you must be GOD! You really do exist! Problem solved!! Then that means I don't have to answer your questions! You already know everything!:D

Mental checklist:

He just "knew" I was lying about the ten tests...

He just knew I wasn't answering him on his own terms so therefore my answers didn't count...

Yep!! You sure are omniscient!

LOL

Sarcasm was a free bonus, but until midnight only. Please have parents permission before ordering another package of ignorance.

Since: Jun 13

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#172747
Jul 21, 2013
 
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
All that crap and all you will hear is "I never knew you". I'm so glad I don't share your burdens.
Just admit it, you want to validate your wickedness, your disobedience, your disgraceful life, and it's just not working out at all for you.
Knowledge is gained after having faith. Since you have no faith, you are left with no knowledge and you are very angry.
We all see that with your daily outbursts and lies.
You are in no way a person that needs to make any comments about knowledge.. you only share your hateful opinions. You are also in no way a person who should comment on anything about anger, and anyone who may hold it. You have accused so many of being angry, but yet you post things such as hoping someone would die in a fiery car crash...

Life on topix would be much more peaceful without your rantings and accusations and hatefulness.

Since: Jun 13

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#172748
Jul 21, 2013
 
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
He gives me so much credit that he even changed his moniker because of me. I'm so proud that my faith has irritated him so much.
Yeah...oh how sweet to admit your love of being abhorrent. It's very disgusting... and you get off on it. Thanks for finally admitting it.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

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#172749
Jul 21, 2013
 
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
All that crap and all you will hear is "I never knew you". I'm so glad I don't share your burdens.
Just admit it, you want to validate your wickedness, your disobedience, your disgraceful life, and it's just not working out at all for you.
Knowledge is gained after having faith. Since you have no faith, you are left with no knowledge and you are very angry.
We all see that with your daily outbursts and lies.
I am civil to those who are civil to me. Bob has been nothing but civil to me. Does he challenge me? Yes he does. Do I challenge him? He says I do and I have no reason to call him a liar. I'd like to ask you to lighten up on him. Most of the atheists here are reasonable even if we disagree.

Since: Jun 13

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#172750
Jul 21, 2013
 
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
He gives me so much credit that he even changed his moniker because of me. I'm so proud that my faith has irritated him so much.
I'm sure your "god" has a special spot for you in heaven for spreading his "good" word lol

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172751
Jul 21, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a link from two websites that show that the word faith is synonymous with trust.
http://thesaurus.com/browse/faith...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/trus...
I am aware of the use of the word.

But make no mistake-- we are speaking of **religious** faith here.

In that meaning of the word, no atheist has any of that-- by definition.

So your attempt to deflect my points is not going to work.

I suppose I could have been more specific:

All **religious** faith is based on nothing.

If they had **facts** they would not need to depend on faith.

Would they?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172752
Jul 21, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
As for your question, I trust that God has announced Himself in a major way. I believe the evidence is more probable than not, that He did this through the person of Jesus Christ. Now here is where I'm sure we'll disagree.
The problem here? Once you go down the faith-road?

You are forever incapable of being objective about what comes next.

Thus,**all** of your subsequent perceptions are subjective to that faith.

And barring something that shakes your fundamental faith? You'll remain non-objective with respect to what you experience.

But.

Reality does not care if you believe or not.

And reality is what it is-- there seems to be zero facts backing the idea of a god.

In reality-- if you remove all the trappings of faith.

And there you have it.

Without your faith first? You have no evidence in support of any god.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172753
Jul 21, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
And I still don't understand what you mean by the "dodge of faith." Call me slow on that one. You'll have to explain what you mean a little more in detail.
Faith [religious] is not evidence--- it is always going to cloud the perceptions of anyone who has it.

But most religions attempt to get around the 100% lack of **objective** facts in support of their claims of god(s), by saying "faith-- you must have faith".

They are correct, of course--without faith, they have zip.

But **with** faith? The human mind is clouded by said faith, and will **create** whatever it needs to "justify" the faith.

In a lovely bit of boot-strapping.

The classic dodge is: "the bible is true because the bible says it is true".

Circular [non]reasoning is a logical fallacy.

Faith is the ultimate in circular reasoning.

That is what I mean by "dodge of faith".

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172754
Jul 21, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
Let me ask you a question. If God was to suddenly appear, leaving no question in the minds of humankind about his identity, what do you think the fear factor would be like?
That would depend on the god in question, wouldn't it?

Certainly if the monstrous god of the bible suddenly appeared?

Their fear would be quite **justified** the bible depicts a horrid god who delights in the suffering of people.

I conclude this, based on the activities the bible chronicles of this god:

1) it deliberately creates beings who it knows will fail-- they were created **to** fail -- but it punishes them for that inevitable failure anyhow-- with infinite torture.

2) it cannot manage to muster up enough mojo to forgive, unless something is killed first... wtf?

3) it seems to require constant adoration in it's subjects-- to the point they are near-mindless slaves to this requirement.

4) it takes pride in being jealous-- a very petty and evil emotion, really

5) it deliberately created an anti-god-- and deliberately and with malice, turns this anti-god loose on earth-- and deliberately grants this anti-god all the **real** power over people-- as if creating them with built-in fail was not enough

So yeah-- if the god of the bible suddenly appears?

People **should** be scared-- the bible's god is a monster.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172755
Jul 21, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
As for your question, I trust that God has announced Himself in a major way. I believe the evidence is more probable than not, that He did this through the person of Jesus Christ.
Of course.

That is your **faith** speaking-- not any facts you may or may not have.

Objectively? You have no facts at all-- until you engage your **faith**.

Then suddenly? You seem to have all the "facts" you want.

Amazing how that works....

... no?

But objectively, you are still left with no ...**actual** facts.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172756
Jul 21, 2013
 
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>True.
And yet the children are crippled.
And yet the children are crippled... yes. An unfortunate and unforeseen consequence.

... meh.

Why is it always the innocent children who bear the brunt of these things?

... and **that** is one of the major flaws with the god theory.

That **children** bear the brunt of adult human thoughtlessness.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172757
Jul 21, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Exactly. This doesn't even get into how much even on those first 4 centuries were changed around and edited once they did finally get penned.
If someone really thinks that the copy of the gospels people have in their bible today matches up with those ancient scrolls they are woefully mistaken. Even the scrolls vary from minor changes to entire paragraphs added or removed!
<quoted text>
Yep. And language analysis shows major inclusions and edits from one generational copy to the next..

... so much for his claim of "meticulous copy practice".

People don't change their stripes.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172758
Jul 21, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
What are the sources for determining lifespans? How do we know that 30 was the average? I would agree with this for the region of Judea before the Roman conquest. But after the Roman conquest? I'm quite sure that we could expect better medical treatment, a better water delivery and sanitation system for which Rome was famous and unrivaled in engineering, and given all of these factors, shouldn't we expect that the mortality rates would drop and life expectancies to increase in proportion?
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/13...
http://www.odyeda.com/English/JewishTimeline....
*sigh*

30 is conservative, with pretty modern (as those things went) accouterments with regards to sanitation and so on.

In reality? The real world numbers were likely much lower-- what with the streets being synonymous with sewers, etc.

We moderns **know** the sorts of diseases people get under those conditions even today--**with** modern antibiotics.

Back then?.. meh. Anytime someone caught a cold/influenza? They **died**...

.. or if they got an infection-- like a simple bladder/kidney infection? Death was their outcome to a pretty high degree of certainty.

Even something as seemingly minor as a tooth infection? Dead by the middle 20's from the creeping infection spreading to the bones....

So yeah-- 30 is likely too generous here...

... is it any wonder they married at 11, 12 or 13? They **had** to... they'd most likely be dead by the 5th kid even then.

Of course, most of their kids died before 12... so 5 or more was kinda needed too.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172759
Jul 21, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I am civil to those who are civil to me. Bob has been nothing but civil to me. Does he challenge me? Yes he does. Do I challenge him? He says I do and I have no reason to call him a liar. I'd like to ask you to lighten up on him. Most of the atheists here are reasonable even if we disagree.
:)

The very first post "atheism is evil" posted to me?

Was one so full of his seething hate, that I literally laughed out loud-- I thought he was joking... a bit of over-the-top sarcasm.

Alas, he wasn't joking...

... meh.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172760
Jul 21, 2013
 
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure your "god" has a special spot for you in heaven for spreading his "good" word lol
He's proof enough for anyone, that there can not possibly be a **good** god who gives a crap.

What sort of god would suffer the likes of "atheism is evil" to continue to sully it's good name?

“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

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#172761
Jul 21, 2013
 
Astra wrote:
<quoted text>
Thats just your opinion! Atheism and free speech is not compatible. Tough luck you live in a democracy.
It's a fact that blog is full of lies from religios liars

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#172762
Jul 21, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
And yet the children are crippled... yes. An unfortunate and unforeseen consequence.
... meh.
Why is it always the innocent children who bear the brunt of these things?
... and **that** is one of the major flaws with the god theory.
That **children** bear the brunt of adult human thoughtlessness.
Yes.

There's something fatally wrong with the underlying notions.

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