Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

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#172657
Jul 20, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope-- I've got other hategodbots banned before.
Same here. I just do not understand why they have to come here to spew their hate. I mean really how worthless does their life have to be?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172658
Jul 20, 2013
 
I slashed the throat of your pitiful made up argument line by line and you have cowered away ever since. Unable to even show a source that these 10 are the standard by which historians use and worse not a shred of proof that the gospels meet these sources.

You are being destroyed by the atheists you know.... In person I doubt you'll dare much better as you cower from questions asked and facts presented. It seems you are more interested in belching your antiquated opinion than actual intellectual debate as I have solidly proven.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>I don't see how I am. Yes languages do change, but the authors and scribes of the New Testament were dogmatic about not changing the meaning. Look up the Greek language. Try to understand the difference between High Context cultures and Low Context cultures. I can't say that changes didn't happen at all, as you and I both know they did; but nowhere near as much as you're trying to assert. I respectfully say that your assertion is a mistaken exaggeration. Of course I'm sure you may feel the same about my assertion, and if that's the case, we'll just have to agree to disagree.:) How do you come to the conclusion that any changes in spelling changed the definition when there were measures in place to prevent that very outcome?

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

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#172659
Jul 20, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see how I am. Yes languages do change, but the authors and scribes of the New Testament were dogmatic about not changing the meaning. Look up the Greek language. Try to understand the difference between High Context cultures and Low Context cultures. I can't say that changes didn't happen at all, as you and I both know they did; but nowhere near as much as you're trying to assert. I respectfully say that your assertion is a mistaken exaggeration. Of course I'm sure you may feel the same about my assertion, and if that's the case, we'll just have to agree to disagree.:) How do you come to the conclusion that any changes in spelling changed the definition when there were measures in place to prevent that very outcome?
Why did you carefully avoid my post?

Since: Jul 13

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#172661
Jul 20, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Doctor Robert Price, Doctor Richard Carrier... Shall I go on?
<quoted text>
They're smart, but incorrect. But that's just my opinion.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

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#172663
Jul 20, 2013
 

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atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists are wimps when it comes to being defeated. They always have to scurry to the mods to bail them out when their widdle feelings are hurt.
They are nothing because they have nothing.
Talking to yourself again I see.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

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#172668
Jul 20, 2013
 

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atheism is evil wrote:
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Hi Bob.
If you are trying say I am sock puppet of BOQF that would be impossible, we are not even in the hemisphere.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

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#172669
Jul 20, 2013
 

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atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably because you are the one to express hatred first, afterall, you are an atheist on a mission of ugly hateful activity.
Perhaps you should read the first posts (thats is of cause the which have not been deleted) of most of threads here as most are started by godbots.

You come to atheist forum on topix make vile hate filled posts and when we respond in kind you say:-

"Help, help I am been oppressed"

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#172670
Jul 20, 2013
 

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Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are trying say I am sock puppet of BOQF that would be impossible, we are not even in the hemisphere.
And, I might add, have very different writing styles. Enough that even a minimally educated person would be able to tell the difference simply by reading your posts.

Oh wait, I see why AIE has difficulty.

Since: Jul 13

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#172673
Jul 20, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
I slashed the throat of your pitiful made up argument line by line and you have cowered away ever since. Unable to even show a source that these 10 are the standard by which historians use and worse not a shred of proof that the gospels meet these sources.
Cowered away? Mr. Liberty, do you know why I don't answer you on your terms? It's your tone. I asked if you know what I mean by that, and you haven't answered yet. Did you "cower away?" LOL I did offer you some websites to examine, and I also have a written publication which lists the 10 methods. In addition, both of my parents were professional historians before they retired. So I do have some first-hand knowledge. If you choose not to believe me, feel free to continue on in your ignorance. I really can't stop you. The written source by the way, is 'Lord or Legend? Wrestling with the Jesus Dilemna' by Gregory A. Boyd, and Paul Rhodes Eddy. They list the ten methods almost verbatim to the notes I have from my classes. Here's the Amazon link for the book, and a link to my reply which either you didn't see, or completely glossed over and dismissed without looking.

http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TUGI0DV...

http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Legend-Wrestling-J...

http://staff.kings.edu/bapavlac/evalsources.h...

https://www.ischool.utexas.edu/~palmquis/cour...

http://www.nps.gov/history/Nr/twhp/Prof_Dev_P...
Givemeliberty wrote:
You are being destroyed by the atheists you know.... In person I doubt you'll dare much better as you cower from questions asked and facts presented. It seems you are more interested in belching your antiquated opinion than actual intellectual debate as I have solidly proven.
The only thing you're proving is how NOT to debate. But, if it makes you feel better to grant yourself a victory, by all means go for it. To you, it's all about winning and losing and making yourself feel better right? I could honestly care less if you think of this as a win/lose contest. I don't. I do this in the real world where people have a sense of decency and good manners, and I see results. I never count any debate as a win or as a loss. I choose to learn from each situation I find myself in. I'm not out to prove anything conclusively. That would be unrealistic and arrogant if I thought I was going to have that impact.

You seem to be taking this a little too personally. Why?

Do you think I have all the time in the world to spend here on TOPIX answering your every snide remark? I don't.

When you can discuss these subjects in a civilized manner, like Polymath, Quantum Bob, Scaritual, blacklagoon, and Albtraum, I'll be glad to offer thoughts, facts, opinions, reflections with you. Until then, go play pigeon chess by yourself.

Since: Jul 13

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#172674
Jul 20, 2013
 
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Why did you carefully avoid my post?
You brought up a completely different subject. The assassination of JFK is a different historical event. It's a modern event in a Western literary, low-context culture, whereas the accounts of Jesus were transmitted and passed on by oral tradition by an ancient high-context culture. That's why I didn't give a lengthy reply. There's just no comparison. If you disagree, you'll have to explain how they're similar.

“The King of R&R”

Since: Dec 07

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#172675
Jul 20, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Re-telling is the essence of oral tradition. Oral tradition was the standard method of communicating historical events in ancient cultures where literacy was the exception rather than the rule. And, oral tradition was strictly monitored so that embellishment was virtually eliminated. That's not to say that there was no embellishment at all, but if there was, it was used for performance value and not to deceive. The tradent's story had to keep the audience's attention without distorting the facts.
To answer your second question, yes. Let's refer to the Gospel According to Mark for an example of why my answer is yes. In the crucifixion narrative, Mark records one of the things that Jesus says:
"Eloi, Eloi, lema sabachthani" which means, "My God, my God, why have you abandoned me." This is told in Mark 15:34
There are reasons why this is important Polymath. First of all, notice that Mark is actually translating from one language to another. If Mark is writing in Greek, then obviously he's translating a quote from another language. So what language is this?
In first century Palestine, Aramaic was the primary language spoken by devout Jews. These words of Jesus are in Aramaic. To me, an obvious question is why would Mark bother to write the phrase in Aramaic and then translate it? The most plausible reason is that Mark is quoting from someone's memory. But who's memory? And why is it a memory? Well we have supporting attestation that it's the account of Peter. And it's a memory for a very good reason.
Psychologists have long understood that traumatic memories are much more likely to be remembered accurately. What could be more traumatic than seeing your best friend killed in such a gruesome manner as crucifixion? Of course, if you want to get into the Judaic context of why Jesus said what he did, which is theological in nature, I'll be glad to do so.
<quoted text>
Yes, the Christians had their own tradents, but this was common practice for each community or sub-group to have their own tradents, and that these tradents would all basically follow the same protocol when repeating oral histories.
<quoted text>
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. If you could expand on it a little more, it would be helpful to our conversation.
<quoted text>
The earliest growth of Christianity was within Judea, and specifically in Jerusalem. Evangelism was a style of oral tradition that actually has it's roots in Roman traditions. So it wasn't an unusual concept within Rome. And yes we could say that Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were all tradents. They used the evangelistic style that was so common within the Roman empire.
I'd like to take the time to thank you for your civility and scholarship. Although we have differing conclusions concerning reality, you're fun to dialogue with, as is Quantum Bob. Maybe you could help others learn the finer points of civil dialogue?:)
"Re-telling is the essence of oral tradition. Oral tradition was the standard method of communicating historical events in ancient cultures where literacy was the exception rather than the rule. And, oral tradition was strictly monitored so that embellishment was virtually eliminated. That's not to say that there was no embellishment at all, but if there was, it was used for performance value and not to deceive. The tradent's story had to keep the audience's attention without distorting the facts."

I beg to differ. In the first order, how on the planet do you know what thoughts coursed through the primitive brain cells of 2000+ year old goat herders? In the second order, it is the titanic ego of human nature to embellish, in order to mesmorize the audience to engage them "into" ones individual narcissism. So, in the end how factual is anything that is repeated by word of mouth? Check out Psych 101 for proof.

Since: Jun 13

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#172676
Jul 20, 2013
 

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atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheists are wimps when it comes to being defeated. They always have to scurry to the mods to bail them out when their widdle feelings are hurt.
They are nothing because they have nothing.
Oh yes, because you have never threatened to report anybody rrriiiigggghhhhttttt? lol. I personally have happiness, and loving family and friends...I have very little nothing in my life. Since you seem to need to frequent local restaurants, and coffee shops to attempt to make friends by talking badly about other people and pestering them while they eat...One can only assume that you don't have very much....it especially shows in your very over sized ego. One wonders, if your "god" does exist, and you do make it to this so called heaven,....what will your "god" have to say for your life, and actions....I wonder if you would finally take responsibility for your hatefulness while staring into the eyes of your "god". It is one hope that I have for you, that if your "god" does exist and if your "hell" does exist, that your "god" will look at you in shame and throw your ass into that fiery pit that you shamelessly try to condemn other people to...lol...a woman can dream peacefully when the dreams are of perfect and ironic justice :D

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

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#172677
Jul 20, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
You brought up a completely different subject. The assassination of JFK is a different historical event. It's a modern event in a Western literary, low-context culture, whereas the accounts of Jesus were transmitted and passed on by oral tradition by an ancient high-context culture. That's why I didn't give a lengthy reply. There's just no comparison. If you disagree, you'll have to explain how they're similar.


Quite simple the assassination of JFK was:-
1. Filmed
2. Photographed
3. Witnessed by thousands
4. Well documented
5. In living memory

Yet still subject to controversy and conspiracy theories to this day.

The bibull can claim none of these. Yet people center their whole on it.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172678
Jul 20, 2013
 
He hates facts.
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>Why did you carefully avoid my post?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172679
Jul 20, 2013
 
You asked for those who stated otherwise and I demonstrated those historians. Your opinion is irrelevant if you are unable to back it with facts.

Just as you cowered away from my point for point dissection of your previous post... Again.

You still have been unable to answer a single one of my questions nor refute a single fact I have posted. It seems you think your opinions trump facts yes?
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>They're smart, but incorrect. But that's just my opinion.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172680
Jul 20, 2013
 
You're the one unable to answer questions. Who's desperate again?
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>Their desperation is almost impossible to watch.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

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#172681
Jul 20, 2013
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
He hates facts.
<quoted text>
What godbot doesn't?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172682
Jul 20, 2013
 
You obviously don't even know what pigeon chess means. Your boasting and bragging means nothing again because you have no facts to back them up.

Still waiting for the source if your hehe ten methods and the proof that the gospels meet these. Many apologetic scholars would even tell you the gospels are unable to do those 10. Oh and lol both your parents are retired historians! Perhaps they can educate on how ignorant you sound. I asked for a source not a link to a book I would have to buy that may or may not include as you claim. Your links,which are opinion pieces, do not claim as you say they do and even then it does not answer in the slightest my question as to why the gospels do not match up! You still have cowered and hid from that question! Can't mommy and daddy hold your hand and muster a semi reasonable answer, after all they are retired historians lol yes?

Wow you sure do belch your opinions without a shred of knowledge or proof. Not a fact to be found anywhere in your post. Unable to refute a single one of my facts or answer even one of my questions you like a typical christhole try to turn it around saying I am the one who is angry? Taking it personally?:))

Far from it. I am trying to see if you are able to even remotely debate your side. So far you are unable to answer even the simplest question and are more interested in belching your opinion. You do realize that in real conversation and debate adults are generally required to answer questions and not run in fear right?

How your faith and lol historian parents have failed you.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>Cowered away? Mr. Liberty, do you know why I don't answer you on your terms? It's your tone. I asked if you know what I mean by that, and you haven't answered yet. Did you "cower away?" LOL I did offer you some websites to examine, and I also have a written publication which lists the 10 methods. In addition, both of my parents were professional historians.

http://www.amazon.com/Lord-Legend -

Givemeliberty wrote, "You are being destroyed by the atheists you know....

I choose to learn from each situation I find myself in. I'm not out to prove anything conclusively.

You seem to be taking this a little too personally.
When you can discuss these subjects in a civilized manner, like Polymath, Quantum Bob, Scaritual, blacklagoon, and Albtraum, I'll be glad to offer thoughts, facts, opinions, reflections with you. Until then, go play pigeon chess.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

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#172683
Jul 20, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>

Psychologists have long understood that traumatic memories are much more likely to be remembered accurately. What could be more traumatic than seeing your best friend killed in such a gruesome manner as crucifixion? Of course, if you want to get into the Judaic context of why Jesus said what he did, which is theological in nature, I'll be glad to do so.
<quoted text>
I would like to point out one flaw in your discussion here. First of all, it was at one time believed that traumatic events were, indeed, the most accurate memories of all. It was considered a maxim in Psychology circles.

Not so, anymore. The research done on 'false memories' of adults who were molested as children, not to mention modern studies on 'battle fatigue' aka PTSD find that there is a marked difference in accuracy and in perceived accuracy.

It has also been found that the 'memory' of an NDE changes with the telling over the years, these stories tend to grow....much like the fish that got away.

Personally, this seems to be true. My brother, sister and I all witnessed the same traumatic event.....and we each had our own unique point of view. It seems we all focused on certain details while completely missing others, or did the mind just blank out what was too overwhelming?

Having also gone through an NDE, I don't know whether my memory now is accurate as I told no one when it actually happened. I was alive and that was enough.

Your presuppositions are your own bias....as mine are;0)

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#172684
Jul 20, 2013
 

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Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Another gutless atheist showing how worthless his life is.
Thanks for testifying.

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