Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Read more

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172709 Jul 21, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Apparently he has a new definition of the word love.
One that George Orwell wrote of in his novel, 1984.

Yes, I got that already.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172710 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
It's true that Peter wasn't a direct author. He had a scribe. His scribe's name was Mark. So if Peter was illiterate (as most Jewish fishermen were) then it makes sense that he would tell his accounts to somebody to write them down. And we do know that Mark wasn't exactly the best in writing grammatically correct Greek. The texts show that he struggled. A textual critic would know that, as would anyone with 3 or more years of Greek under their belt.
John also struggled with Greek, but with John we can see improvement over a period of time. By the time he wrote Revelations, he was fairly competent at both Greek and writing.
Matthew may not have actually touched the quill to the papyrus, but his notes were very likely instrumental in expanding the gospel Mark had written. That doesn't mean embellishment by the way. It means that Mark wrote a very compact gospel, and when Matthew read it, he expanded on it for his Jewish audience.
Luke was a Syrian physician and is the only one who starts both his gospel and the sequel with a prologue that attests to the reliability of the tradition he's passing on. This is important because Luke's gospel isn't a book, but a personal letter to a high ranking Roman official.
That would be amazing-- what you postulate above, seeing as how each of the people you mention was long in the grave, when the books you mention were actually written.

Gives a whole new meaning to the word "ghost writer".

The modern scholarship date the oldest gospels to 60CE or later, perhaps as late as 120CE.

That would put these people into the grave by rather a bit.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172711 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't see how I am. Yes languages do change, but the authors and scribes of the New Testament were dogmatic about not changing the meaning.
You know this... how? You have a magical Time Machine which lets you compare a 1000th generational copy document with the originals?

People do not change that much.

Unless you do have a Time Viewer? You are just blowing smoke.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172712 Jul 21, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Same here. I just do not understand why they have to come here to spew their hate. I mean really how worthless does their life have to be?
Agreed. It's as if they are obsessive-compulsive.

And maybe they are.... a recognized mental disease.

It would explain why they cling to bronze age mythology so tightly.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172713 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
They're smart, but incorrect. But that's just my opinion.
Well, at least you have the decency to admit it's just opinion.

Which makes me ask.... why?

Since, as you claim, it's literally of infinite significance?

Why?

Why did your god not do better than that?

What was his agenda, in allowing such obfuscation to creep in to his "message"?

And why not re-release a **modern** update? One that is clearly and without any doubts, of **divine** origins?

And don't try the dodge of "faith"... that won't wash.

Infinite significance, remember? To rely on the untrustworthy faith?

Is to be evil.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172714 Jul 21, 2013
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Reported me to the mods. LMAO!!!!
Yes.

Your hate speech was reported.

You are a literal credit to your cult of hate.

Your very words prove this beyond a doubt, too.

Who Would Jewsus Hate?

Hmmm?

I bet **you** know!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172715 Jul 21, 2013
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
I laugh as I watch you in your last days of atheism. Your eternal damnation is just around the corner, you putrid gutless coward.
Hate speech duly reported.

You continue to show you **not** a religion of love-- but one of hate and abuse.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172716 Jul 21, 2013
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
Probably because you are the one to express hatred first, afterall, you are an atheist on a mission of ugly hateful activity.
Can you **quote** my alleged "hate"?

No?

Interesting... you cannot actually QUOTE ME posting even ONE hateful thing.

I see your lies are unending, though.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172717 Jul 21, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are trying say I am sock puppet of BOQF that would be impossible, we are not even in the hemisphere.
Yep.

We don't write in an even **slightly** similar style, either.

But these hatecultists are not very bright.

If they were?

They'd be...

... atheists.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172718 Jul 21, 2013
Just Results wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really? That's impressive Bob. Your atheism really is making strides, getting posters banned and all.
Only when they spew constant hate-speech.

As you have done since you showed up.

Your Jewsus? If real?

Would be ... so **not** proud of you.

Jewsus commanded you to **love** your enemies, after all...
Astra

Blacktown, Australia

#172719 Jul 21, 2013
DNF wrote:
To 'astra'
Care to look at the violence you and your kind cause?
Bombing abortion clinics. That wasn't atheists.
They didn't bomb churches, that was you folks.
Atheists also don't expect free trips all over the world that are paid by someone else so they can proselytize in countries where such actions are illegal. Again that's YOUR group.
Shall we look at the 103 verses of the Bible that instruct your missionaries to obey civil laws?
Didn't think so.
Atheists are the worst killers humanity has ever come across.

"State atheism is the official promotion of atheism by a government, sometimes combined with active suppression of religious freedom and practice.

State atheism in Albania was taken to an extreme during the totalitarian regime installed after World War II, when religions, identified as imports foreign to Albanian culture, were banned altogether.[30] The Agrarian Reform Law of August 1945 nationalized most property of religious institutions, including the estates of monasteries, orders, and dioceses. Many clergy and believers were tried, tortured, and executed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_atheism
Astra

Blacktown, Australia

#172720 Jul 21, 2013
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
blog of lies!
Thats just your opinion! Atheism and free speech is not compatible. Tough luck you live in a democracy.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172721 Jul 21, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, at least you have the decency to admit it's just opinion.
Which makes me ask.... why?
Since, as you claim, it's literally of infinite significance?
Why?
Why did your god not do better than that?
What was his agenda, in allowing such obfuscation to creep in to his "message"?
And why not re-release a **modern** update? One that is clearly and without any doubts, of **divine** origins?
And don't try the dodge of "faith"... that won't wash.
Infinite significance, remember? To rely on the untrustworthy faith?
Is to be evil.
I'm not quite sure what you're asking here Bob. I'm confused by your wording. Untrustworthy faith? Trust is faith. That's the way I've always understood the word. If you have faith in something, it's because you trust it.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the dodge of faith." I truly want to answer your question Bob. I appreciate your kindness and your integrity. I see no difference between us, other than our worldview.
Perhaps if you explain what you mean, I can answer you. My answer may not be satisfactory to your sensibilities, but it will be an honest answer. You deserve no less than that.
25or6to4

Fond Du Lac, WI

#172722 Jul 21, 2013
DebJ wrote:
<quoted text>
In my opinion, if there is nothing after life, then it's up to us to make every day count for something. If you've only got one chance, make the most of it.
Why does everything have to have a purpose for you to qualify? If you want everything to be structured and balanced, that's fine. Just be aware that you may not get it, no matter how badly you want it. Wouldn't you be better off woking with what you've got?
It takes some courage to even entertain the possibility that there may be nothing after life, would you agree? We cling to life, understandably; it's the only reality we really know. But why do some religious people want "eternal life?" Why do they see their own lives as so important, that they must continue.. FOREVER? Can there be some satisfaction in knowing that, after one dies, others will carry on with the challenges, the sorrows, the joys of life? Maybe do better than we did? Is seeking eternal life sort of being like the kid on the merry-go-round who never wants to get off and give someone else a turn? Is it an expression of ultimate selfishness? Just wondering.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172723 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not quite sure what you're asking here Bob. I'm confused by your wording. Untrustworthy faith? Trust is faith.
False. Faith is the exact opposite of knowledge.

If you had knowledge? You would not need faith at all.

If you know that someone can be trusted? You don't need any faith at all-- so "faith=trust" is bs.

In fact? When there is zero fact, but you wish to insist on some wishful idea is true anyway? You rely on..

... faith.

In short? Faith is a lie you have told yourself so often, that you forgot that it was a lie in the first place.

No god, who is good, would rely on faith alone.

To do so, is to be evil.

Because-- by definition-- faith is **never** based on fact (else you'd not need faith at all), so faith is based on not-a-fact.

A lie, as I already explained.
Roman Apologist wrote:
That's the way I've always understood the word. If you have faith in something, it's because you trust it.
No--it's because you have knowledge of it, or else you **think** you have knowledge of it (sometimes based in false "information" someone else has fed you).

To trust without knowledge is to be naive-- not unlike an innocent, but inexperienced child.

I expect better from any being worthy of the title "god".

And so, I must ask **why**, if the messages in the bible are literally of ***infinite*** consequence?

Why are there no certainties within it?

What sort of god writes a confusing and muddled-up mess, and then...

... goes **silent** for 2000+ years, with nary a reinforcement-repeat message?

Hint: if you **already** believe? Then the repeat-messages are not for **you**, are they? You've already given up and allowed yourself to be indoctrinated into the ...

... well, no other word to call it: the lies.

Without facts to back it? It's opinion-- lies, to be blunt.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172724 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "the dodge of faith." I truly want to answer your question Bob. I appreciate your kindness and your integrity. I see no difference between us, other than our worldview.
Perhaps if you explain what you mean, I can answer you. My answer may not be satisfactory to your sensibilities, but it will be an honest answer. You deserve no less than that.
Thanks. I **have** enjoyed our exchanges immensely. Makes me think.

I will be interested in how you answer the "dodge of faith" question.

I've asked this of other thoughtful people before.

Nobody, so far, can answer without retreating back into the false idea of faith.

Maybe you will surprise me?

:D

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172725 Jul 21, 2013
25or6to4 wrote:
<quoted text>
It takes some courage to even entertain the possibility that there may be nothing after life, would you agree? We cling to life, understandably; it's the only reality we really know. But why do some religious people want "eternal life?" Why do they see their own lives as so important, that they must continue.. FOREVER? Can there be some satisfaction in knowing that, after one dies, others will carry on with the challenges, the sorrows, the joys of life? Maybe do better than we did? Is seeking eternal life sort of being like the kid on the merry-go-round who never wants to get off and give someone else a turn? Is it an expression of ultimate selfishness? Just wondering.
The allure of supposed immortality is a strong one.

It can also be (albeit dubious) comfort to someone who's come face-to-face with their own or their loved one's mortality.

Of course, once a person is deeply indoctrinated, that very mind-meme will seem to "fight" any attempts to dislodge it.

See the idea of antiprocess for an interesting hypothesis about this last observation. " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiprocess" ;

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#172726 Jul 21, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
Paul wrote first and likely within 3-5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus, and not decades later as you claim without proof or any supporting evidence. Here's how we can be highly confident of that:
Clement of Rome wrote a letter to the Corinthian church in 96A.D. in which he talks about the earlier letters of Paul they had received and were holding. This letter of Clement still exists and can be read today. In that letter, in chapter 47, Clement writes:
"Take up the epistle of the blessed Apostle Paul. What did he write to you at the time when the Gospel first began to be preached? Truly, under the inspiration of the Spirit, he wrote to you concerning himself, and Cephas, and Apollos, because even then parties had been formed among you."
Cephas was the disciple Peter who converted Clement. In this letter, Clement plainly says that Paul started writing when the gospel was starting to be preached. Since Christianity started in Jerusalem, this has to be very early. It took months for the gospel to circulate.
I don't find this particularly convincing. Among other things, someone writing from the perspective of 50+ years later may very well see the first few decades as when things 'first began'. It is certainly far from clear that this means within the first 3-5 years. Furthermore, it isn't completely clear how long of a delay there was between the events and when people began to preach about the events. And how do you know this letter relates to events in Jerusalem? At best, it relates to when factions began to be formed in the early community. Since Paul was one of the foci for the development of such factions, your evidence is, at best, ambiguous.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172727 Jul 21, 2013
Source that there are no unbiased historians please. Wow you totally pulled that one out if your christhole. I would be humiliated to assume such a thing. I am not biased against the idea that Jesus existed, I am merely correctly stating that there is no historical proof for his existence. Sorry you don't like the facts when they contradict your biases.

Your apologetic book does not reflect on the majority of scholars. Produce a secular non apologetic scholar making that claim and we can go from there. See? I can answer questions, unlike you.

How could you possibly know what I like or don't like? Again you are assuming way too much and making a fool of yourself. Let's see if you are able to answer in a factual non apologetic opinionated way...

Proof that Paul supposedly wrote this 3-5 years later? We'll assume that this Paul even existed for the time being. That would fly in the face of conventional reasoning because the earliest shred of gospel doesn't appear until over 50 years later. Proof please. The only historically accurate letter of Clement is a letter to a church in Corinth berating church leadership. Anything else is a later writing attributed to him. And even if those weren't an early Christian forgery as is so prevalent in those days, he is doing nothing more than writing early Christian beliefs. Again this on no way answers why this man Paul, who we'll pretend existed for now, would be the first to write about this miracle man son of god instead of people who had actually supposedly met him. Shouldn't it be the other way around?

As expected you did not answer the question but rather desperately tried to change the subject in an effort to proselytize. Epic fail.

Lol expansion and compression! Lmfao! Come on man that is a total cop out and you know it. Apologetic bleating at it's finest! How could you possibly know the writer is doing that since we have no idea the person who actually wrote them? Provide the actual author and them documenting that they cruelly did this. Otherwise you are just making sht up again and you know it.

Tell me compress and expand where Jesus was born. Was it in Mary and Joseph's home or in a manger? Lol! So silly! Epic fail as expected. There are several errors and contradictions in the gospels and we don't need to compress or expand them to see them.

If I were a history student looking into the matter of Jesus' resurrection I would seek out verifiable, unbiased sources showing such a thing was even considered to have happened. Such an event would have been clearly documented by many in that time period especially since he marched into Jerusalem with hundreds of resurrected dead Jewish Prophets walking behind him. Such a thing surely would have been noticed correct? It would have made more waves than pottery sales yes?
Roman Apologist wrote:
That's not possible. No historian investigates the past without bias.

I notice you didn't say anything when I demonstrated that the books and the ten tests actually exist.

I'll be glad to fill in the blanks for you, but on my terms,And you don't like that do you?

Paul wrote first and likely within 3-5 years after the crucifixion of Jesus.

Clement of Rome wrote a letter to the Corinthian church in 96A.D. in which he talks about the earlier letters of Paul.

Now for challenge 2:

The alleged contradictions in the New Testament are only apparent contradictions. Meaning, they can be reconciled by knowing the context, the culture, the style of writing, etc.

For example, there is the subject of expansion and compression. How many women or angels were at the empty tomb is a great example of an apparent contradiction, and it's only because of one writer compressing the account.

Now I have a question for you.

If you were a history student, and were given the assignment of looking for historical evidence for the resurrection of Jesus, how would you proceed?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172728 Jul 21, 2013
Because he is unable to use reason but rather views things through his biased apologetic glasses. That is why he has no idea how idiotic he makes himself look.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>You know this... how? You have a magical Time Machine which lets you compare a 1000th generational copy document with the originals?

People do not change that much.

Unless you do have a Time Viewer? You are just blowing smoke.

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