Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172309 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you come to that conclusion? You're making claims without any supporting evidence for me to consider. You're asserting that it was visions and dreams but not supplying me with any reference point to support that.
The bible itself claims it was but a dream. The story of the road to Damascus, is clearly a dream or vision of Paul's.

I'm surprised you are arguing this point at all.
Thinking

York, UK

#172310 Jul 16, 2013
I'm going to keep telling people you are necrophiliac christard.
But I have no interest in your elephantiasis riddled testicles.
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>what are you gonna do about it? and no you can't play with my junk = THE LARGE ONE

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172311 Jul 16, 2013
Ricky F wrote:
<quoted text>T-Town, you're one of the few people I still see who's been posting as long as I have and that's a rare site these days!
You rarely see anyone either still posting or using their original moniker.
And what am I, chopped liver? I don't have the posts under my belt that you guys/gals do, but I have survived;0)
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#172312 Jul 16, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
RA seems to have never hear the parable of 'turn the other cheek' although that's a bit lopsided the *other* way.
That is a little bit to far for me too. I can live with, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will not hurt me.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172313 Jul 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's an excellent summary, and why it's both exciting but also we need to keep a sober attitude.
ERV is an amazing researcher in HIV/AIDS, and her blog is an excellent resource for keeping up.
" http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2013/07/07/two-pa... ;
Thank you Bob! This is more exciting and suspenseful than any news or entertainment I have read/watched in a LONG time;0)

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172314 Jul 16, 2013
saidI wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry heard it on the "mainstream media" about two weeks ago. I believe the news came from USA. I'm not much of a researcher :(
S'OK! Bob gave me a link, nothing wrong with mainstream media...if you're careful;0)

I see it has worked for two men, so far. But what a fascinating note of hope! Thank you for starting the ball rolling.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#172316 Jul 16, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>not at all its a christian church... have you ever attended a church???
Oh GOD yes.

What a total waste of hundreds of Sunday mornings.
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#172317 Jul 16, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
If your god is real, made all and benevolent why did he make childhood cancer?
Some cancer are caused by a virus which has as much right to live as any other creature. You live off of the deaths of what ever you eat. I see no difference.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#172318 Jul 16, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>so you're not afraid to die huh? what faith you have!
ITS CALLED CLOWN OWNAGE!
It's just plain silly to be afraid of the inevitable.

I have some concern as to HOW I die.

As well as my quality of life until then.

But no. I'm not at all afraid to die.

Nor am I afraid to live.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#172319 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you think the store owner showed condescension? I never said he did. You're assuming he did. Why are you assuming that?
Yes the store owner was closing up as the snooty customer returned, not BECAUSE the snooty customer returned. The store owner was closing because it was closing time. Are you speculating on emotional and volitional grounds?
There are two types of humiliation.(Humili being the root- as in "humility")
One type is that of revenge. You're assuming that's what happened in the story I used. The other type is teaching. When we're humiliated, we're humiliated because somebody is cruel and wants to injure us, OR we've been unfair to others and when we realize it, it's humiliating, especially if we're in the company of those we treated badly. We feel awful about it. Sometimes we need to be humiliated in a kind way.
The young snooty man's behavior was the issue here. Not the merchandise, not the customer service issues, but only the cocky smugness of one man, in another man's place of business. The store owner helped the young man. He gave him excellent customer service.
He gave directions designed to redeem the young man, not cast him out without learning from it. If revenge was the goal, why bring the offender back to your own doorstep?
1) Be content with what's in front of you when in another man's home or business.
2) If not satisfied, don't be snooty. Be gracious.
3) When holding another person accountable, give them a way to learn the lesson AND redeem themselves and welcome them back when they do.
Face it.

It was a stupid story.

You should let the author know.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172320 Jul 16, 2013
Thinking wrote:
I'm going to keep telling people you are necrophiliac christard.
But I have no interest in your elephantiasis riddled testicles.
<quoted text>
they look like a pair of hary coconuts

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172321 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
By modern Western standards, you would have a valid argument IF your comparison was between two similar modern Western cultures. But therein is the point of contention. My disagreement is based on the concept of your ethnocentrism. What I'm suggesting is that you are failing to recognize the difference in writing styles in our own modern time, and also in cultural styles. The ancient Hebrew culture was predominantly an oral culture. You're assuming that well educated articulate people would write this material down right on the spot, and that this literary skill would have been common to people in that culture. This is simply not true. So that's why I believe you're making an ethnocentric assumption based upon our own modern Western literary culture, and comparing it to an Middle Eastern orally dominated culture.
Consider the following:
1) Ancient cultures in the Mediterranean region were predominantly oral cultures. They passed on information from generation to generation by word of mouth. They did this through creeds. Creeds were almost poetic. They had a specific flow to them. Words were arranged in a format that was easy to remember. This information was memorized word for word, verbatim. This was the common method of communicating.
2) Yes, Hebrews could read and write. In fact, the percentage of Hebrew males that could read and write was higher than that of pagan nations in the Greco-Roman world. But that was still a very low number in contrast to the rest of the population.
3) There was no print based culture at that time. The printing press was still over a thousand years into the future. Papyrus was hand-made. Writing was a very slow, tedious, laborious process.
So here we have 3 points of consideration as to why there was a lack of writing from that period. I have more points that I can add if you're open to considering them.
I give you points for sincerity and civility. That's the exception rather than the rule on these threads so Kudos to you! I can see you've done a lot of research and given these many points a lot of thought.

Don't get me wrong, a house of cards is still a house of cards and you have more than your fair share of 'considerations' to propose. It's understandable when discussing a long gone culture with scant clues.

Just following your and Bob's discussion, please carry on!

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172322 Jul 16, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh GOD yes.
What a total waste of hundreds of Sunday mornings.
I can picture you on the back row picking your nose!!!

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#172323 Jul 16, 2013
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a little bit to far for me too. I can live with, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will not hurt me.
Yes, that 7 X 70 is more than I could ever take. I go by the 'fool me once, shame on you....fool me twice shame on ME!' ;0)

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172324 Jul 16, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
It's just plain silly to be afraid of the inevitable.
I have some concern as to HOW I die.
As well as my quality of life until then.
But no. I'm not at all afraid to die.
Nor am I afraid to live.
you have no quality of life without Jesus Christ in your life! you don't get that just by attending church picking your nose.. YOU MUST BE BORN AGAIN!! SAVED FROM YOUR SIN
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#172325 Jul 16, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
In fact you only think you have standards, standards built on wishful thinking and mythology are not standards but delusions.
The existence of 42 as the answer to life the universe and everything has considerably more validity than belief in a Bronze Age book. 42 came from a novel of known provenance, written by one ďnamedĒ and highly respected author.
On the other hand the babble can not make any such claim, particularly the OT which is comprised exclusively of carefully selected extracts of the Tanakh which was in turn written by unknown run away slaves and goat herders during the bronze and iron ages. Or for that matter the NT, which was compiled by committee from carefully selected works of unknown provenance. From the point of itís inception it has been edited and changed to the extent that in the early 1600ís another committee re-created the babble from carefully selected extracts of all the existing copies. Guess what there are now over 50 different versions in the English language alone (who knows how many in other languages) and around 40,000 different sects of believers, each claiming that only there sect is right. High standards? Right!
What you believe does not create standards but illusion and thatís fine if you want your standards to be illusion. So just to enlighten you, the is absolutely no evidence that the universe was built for the sexual gratification of human kind and even less that that for the existence of a supreme creator.
Number 42 was Jackie Robinsons number.:O)

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172326 Jul 16, 2013
I flushed most of your repetitive apologetic blather.

No western standards have nothing to do with argument whatsoever. The period of time Jesus walked the region is very very well documented. I know you hate to admit that but guess what? The Jews, Mithra worshipers, Hellenistic people all regularly at the time documented vital information. People have trouble remembering word for word the Ten Commandments but you think they could accurately remember hundreds of thousands of words perfectly? Insanity and we see this clearly as all the variations of the same gospels that we find in ancient scrolls.

Jesus according to the NT had rich and highly educated men with him including converted Jews who would have known the importance of documentation.

The same people at the time were able to document about pottery and fishing sales. But this man who could raise the dead get's ignored for decades? Joseph of aramathia spends a fortune on Jesus right? Yet he didn't find it necessary to have pen put to paper?

Really?

Let's remember the Jesus magician from Egypt was documented.

This is why apologetics fail miserably. Critical thinking.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>By modern Western standards, you would have a valid argument IF your comparison was between two similar modern.
2) Yes, Hebrews could read and write.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172327 Jul 16, 2013
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
it's you who is talking about you tiny thing all the time
"I WANT TO BE LIKE Clownie! Yep, the good ole U S A. is a great place! Mikko

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172328 Jul 16, 2013
Are you claiming Paul met Jesus in person? Are you claiming Paul did not have visions and dreams about Jesus?

Seriously this is what you are claiming?

Why did hallucination vision chump Paul find the need to document this Jesus but the people who walked with him.... Not so much?
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>How do you come to that conclusion? You're making claims without any supporting evidence for me to consider. You're asserting that it was visions and dreams but not supplying me with any reference point to support that.

Givemeliberty wrote, "You can belch that they were divine visions and dreams if you want to humiliate yourself as this is an apologetic opinion but my fact stands."

Your "fact" stands? On what authority? That's why I'm asking. I don't want to just offer an opinion. I want to offer a logical, plausible, coherent argument. Telling me that your fact stands without a supporting reference is a very bold maneuver.

Givemeliberty wrote, "If you are already aware of something stop wasting time asking me to provide information on it. Now can we finally please move along?"

No we cannot just move along. You made an assertion that what Paul saw was a vision or a dream; yet it's not in the Damascus road account in the book of Acts. Paul doesn't claim it was a vision or dream. You're making a claim that Paul's Damascus Road event was that, and you're asserting that Paul said so himself. I'm simply asking where in the NT you found that, because I'm physically holding an NLT Bible and I've read and re-read the three accounts in the Book of Acts, and none of them claim that Paul claimed they were mere visions or dreams. I need a reference point or source to investigate. Surely that's not such an unreasonable request, especially when you have accused theists of cowering and not answering your questions.

Givemeliberty wrote, "Why is the first documented words about Jesus penned by a man who never even met him?"

I already answered that in my previous posting.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172329 Jul 16, 2013
Certainly the sword forcing Christianity into society was key to it's current state.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>What is really amusing? Is that if you make a study of the evolution of religion during those beginning days?

You'll find that **all** religions in the region had evolved into a "man/god sacrifice/rebirth/dies-for-peo ple/immortality/etc"

They are so similar, they could have been written by the same people-- only the unimportant details are specific to the various people who's culture it sprang up in.

Without Constantine's force-conversion to his newly-minted "christianity", christianity would have died off like all the other cults did.

...*sigh*

And Earth would have skipped the Dark Ages... and?

We'd have colonies on the moons of Jupiter by **now**....!

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