Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172268 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't your celebration a bit premature? What Baptist church did you attend? First Baptist? Cavalry Baptist?
I attended Catholic church until my parents divorced. Then attended First Baptist as a teen. I lost my faith in my twenties and just came back to it within the last 7 years. Now I consider myself Protestant non-denominational. I believe in the traditional orthodox Protestant view as established at the Council of Nicea and the Council of Laodicea. I believe Martin Luther was correct in his action to nail his 95 Theses to the door of the church in Wittenburg, Germany. This paved the way for the common man to learn the truth of the gospels and break the man-made authority imposed by the Catholic church. I agree that Constantine used the church more for political expediency than for his own spiritual growth.
Now you know my Christian history. What is your history?
Interesting. Then maybe you **would** be interested in what this guy has to say.

I apologize for the introduction-- the sound is pretty poor quality. But the speech gets better.

Sound quality aside, this person is an actual historian, and approaches the question strictly from a historian's point of view, neither a believer nor a non-believer's view.
"
"

The description: Published on Mar 28, 2013

Dr. Richard Carrier flew in from California to lecture the UNCG Atheists, Agnostics, and Skeptics on the historicity of Christ. The historicity of Christ has appeared in the public consciousness over the last few years because of such individuals such as Robert Price and Dr. Carrier. This topic deals with the analysis of historical data to determine if Jesus existed as an actual person.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172269 Jul 16, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Bart cracks me up because he talks all the time about how inaccurate the NT especially the gospels are and how they cannot be looked at as reliable. Then in his book about Jesus existing his proof for Jesus existing? The NT gospels! Lmfao!
Yes he even destroys the Josephus and Tacitus forgeries stating that neither of these men could write as they did about Jesus and not suffer tremendously.
<quoted text>
My mistake-- it wasn't Bart, it was Dr. Richard Carrier. I've not heard your man, but I'll look for him.

The video I saw was here: " http://youtu.be/mwUZOZN-9dc" ; poor audio, but worth your hour to listen.

He's a real historian, using real historian's methodology.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172270 Jul 16, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Bart cracks me up because he talks all the time about how inaccurate the NT especially the gospels are and how they cannot be looked at as reliable. Then in his book about Jesus existing his proof for Jesus existing? The NT gospels! Lmfao!
Yes he even destroys the Josephus and Tacitus forgeries stating that neither of these men could write as they did about Jesus and not suffer tremendously.
<quoted text>
Here it one example of Dr Ehrman, I'll give it a listen.
" http://youtu.be/eV9JVEtDS8E" ;

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172271 Jul 16, 2013
saidI wrote:
<quoted text>
Two men recently had bone marrow and stem cell transplants, and they no longer have Hiv/Aids. Science, winning.
**SCIENCE** for the WIN.

Again.

Science has also allowed the creation of replacement limbs that are pretty damn good replacements--considering.

In direct contrast to any god-- who apparently cannot manage that.

Soon?

Science will replace vision for the blind.

Yet **another** task gods are unable to perform.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172272 Jul 16, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be fantastic! Got a link?
Here's an excellent summary, and why it's both exciting but also we need to keep a sober attitude.

ERV is an amazing researcher in HIV/AIDS, and her blog is an excellent resource for keeping up.

" http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2013/07/07/two-pa... ;

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172273 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
Would you consider the following as a plausible explanation?
Paul was the first to write, because Paul was a member of the Sanhedrin. Members of the Jewish Sanhedrin were very well educated.

The men that Jesus chose as His disciples were (with the exception of Matthew) working class men. In that culture,(a predominantly oral culture) it's not unreasonable to infer or conclude that a better educated man would be the first to write everything down.

Isn't that a reasonable alternative to consider?
One better: since none of the gospels were rendered into words, until 60 or 90 years too late, it's more likely these were written from "friend of a friend" stories, at least one or two generations later.

And that the people they were allegedly "written" by, were long dead by the time the stories were written down.

Moreover, whoever wrote the gospels, clearly copied from sources we no longer have, apart from John of course.

This lends credence to the idea that they were written by anonymous sources writing in the **name** of the traditional titles.

And, as you point out, the majority of the disciples were most likely illiterate and could not have written anything even if they had an urge to.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172274 Jul 16, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Please don't be so hasty in your thought process. I asked YOU to tell me where exactly in the NT Paul claimed that his account of seeing Jesus is only a dream or vision. I know the story of the Damascus Road incident. I'm asking you to provide evidence that Paul claimed that it was ONLY a VISION or DREAM.

Insulting remarks don't move the dialogue forward very well do they?
Paul freely admits that he was the only person "there". He also admits that the "person" he saw was more like a spirit, than a man.

This reinforces the fact that Paul only writes about jesus as if he were pure spirit-- pure "angelic" or "heavenly" and never about jesus-the-man.

That fact, and the fact that Paul's stuff is the oldest verifiable NT writings, reinforces the notion that the Jesus-myth began as a celestial, non-corpreal being.

And only later, did the stories change to make him into a man.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172275 Jul 16, 2013
Ricky F wrote:
<quoted text>I agree, but there were several times I could have been banned as well but somehow made it through, now I wonder if mods give us any more respect due to our making it this far? I'm not sure I have the answer either? lol
I've never even had a warning message from the mods...

... go figure.

It's not hard to communicate within the rules, to avoid the ban-hammer.

A task that 90% of the fundie-god-botherers seem unable to grasp...

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#172276 Jul 16, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>you don't believe in GOD!you say he don't exist. so who's the blame for all the bad stuff in the world? science, atheist,evolution,who
Oh sorry, I misunderstood, I thought you were saying god was to blame, one moment, let me look. Yes thatís exactly what you were saying in your post http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TUGI0DV...

Quote
God made all even science
Endquote

Yet now you have had a while to think about it you are actually denying this.

Sorry DK clunt idiocy is no excuse for deliberate ignorance .

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172277 Jul 16, 2013
I think we have all noticed that :)
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>Dave thinks a lot of things, most of them belong in the dreams of davesworld and have no place in reality

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172278 Jul 16, 2013
Lmfao! He goes through knee pads like water I bet :))
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>I bet you are a huge fan of Knees !!!:) snicker

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#172279 Jul 16, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
I notice the poor dumb atheist on here blame GOD for all the evil in the world. But say he don't exist!! And they claim to be intelligent, BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWHAHAHAHAHAHAH AHAHASNORTSHAHAHAHAFARTSHAHAHA YOHAHAHAHAHA
ITS CALLED CLOWNIE OWNAGE!
GET DOWN & GET FUNKY BRO. CLOWNIE IS ONE BAD HONKY
That was YOU blaming god, no one else

Itís called deliberate ignorance and home schooled stupidity
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>God made all even science
So in the face of actual evidence lying, stupidity and deliberate ignorance is not going to let you off the hook.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172280 Jul 16, 2013
There are thousands of different Christian churches I am asking a simple question why are you so terrified to answer?

Why are you so deeply ashamed of the church you attend that you cannot even say which one?

Ancient Christians faced death and torture by saying what church they went to. This is a discussion board and you are terrified to say what Christian religion you belong to! Hahahaha!

It has to be something really screwed up like Mormons, Jehovah Witness, Pentecostal or worse. Otherwise you wouldn't be so deeply ashamed.
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>CHRISTIAN! I've told you hard head! next you want to know how much I give the church each month... none of your BIZZ

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172281 Jul 16, 2013
Are all the old vets terrified to say what church they attend like you? Or is your cowardice your's and your's alone pussyassbitch?
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>We old vets deserve respect from these rookies! but do we get it? Hell No... most of them have been banned 3 or 4 times or more! Yet you and I hang in like rusty nails...

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172282 Jul 16, 2013
Nope that would be unacceptable because Jesus had intelligent and even wealthy followers according to the myth. Any reasonably intelligent person would realize the critical importance of documenting and preserving the words and deeds of such a man immediately knowing full well vital details and words would be lost and forgotten.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>I was under the impression that your comments were directed at me.

Givemeliberty wrote, "Again why was it that "Paul" who never met Jesus outside of dreams and visions/hallucinations was the first to write about him?"

Would you consider the following as a plausible explanation?

Paul was the first to write, because Paul was a member of the Sanhedrin. Members of the Jewish Sanhedrin were very well educated. The men that Jesus chose as His disciples were (with the exception of Matthew) working class men. In that culture,(a predominantly oral culture) it's not unreasonable to infer or conclude that a better educated man would be the first to write everything down.

Isn't that a reasonable alternative to consider?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172283 Jul 16, 2013
Did Paul meet Jesus in the flesh? No.
Was all of Paul's interactions with Jesus in the form of visions and dreams? Yes.

You can belch that they were divine visions and dreams if you want to humiliate yourself as this is an apologetic opinion but my fact stands.

If you are already aware of something stop wasting time asking me to provide information on it. Now can we finally please move along?

Why is the first documented words about Jesus penned by a man who never even met him?
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>Please don't be so hasty in your thought process. I asked YOU to tell me where exactly in the NT Paul claimed that his account of seeing Jesus is only a dream or vision. I know the story of the Damascus Road incident. I'm asking you to provide evidence that Paul claimed that it was ONLY a VISION or DREAM.

Insulting remarks don't move the dialogue forward very well do they?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172284 Jul 16, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Nope that would be unacceptable because Jesus had intelligent and even wealthy followers according to the myth. Any reasonably intelligent person would realize the critical importance of documenting and preserving the words and deeds of such a man immediately knowing full well vital details and words would be lost and forgotten.
<quoted text>
It is **much** worse than even that: if Jewsus was, in fact, a god?

He would have foreseen the present difficulties, and took **godly** steps to preserve his messages for the future generations.

That Jewsus himself **never** wrote even one verse?

Is more than sufficient proof that he was **not** a god of any kind.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172285 Jul 16, 2013
Richard is great as is Dr. Robert Price. They are two scholars who have factually laid out the case fact by fact point by point that there really is no proof for a historical Jesus.

I have yet to see one person scholar or otherwise take on their argument except using logical fallacies.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>My mistake-- it wasn't Bart, it was Dr. Richard Carrier. I've not heard your man, but I'll look for him.

The video I saw was here: " http://youtu.be/mwUZOZN-9dc" ; poor audio, but worth your hour to listen.

He's a real historian, using real historian's methodology.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172286 Jul 16, 2013
Exactly it was the OB1 style ghost of Jesus. Lol!
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Paul freely admits that he was the only person "there". He also admits that the "person" he saw was more like a spirit, than a man.

This reinforces the fact that Paul only writes about jesus as if he were pure spirit-- pure "angelic" or "heavenly" and never about jesus-the-man.

That fact, and the fact that Paul's stuff is the oldest verifiable NT writings, reinforces the notion that the Jesus-myth began as a celestial, non-corpreal being.

And only later, did the stories change to make him into a man.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172287 Jul 16, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Why is the first documented words about Jesus penned by a man who never even met him?
<quoted text>
Because the earliest Jesus-myths were about a being who was believed to be 100% celestial/spirit/angelic/heave nly.

**Never** of a man-god or even worse, of a human.

Only much-much later was the myth of "jesus-as-man" introduced into the stories.

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