Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172195 Jul 15, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
By all the accounts-- and there are few-- the vote was nearly (if not totally) unanimously against Revelations.
But Constantine insisted for some reason.
Why?
One reason could be the single place where christianity is exclusive, is in Revelations-- and no where else.
Constantine required an exclusive clause, to justify forcing people to convert.
So....
You said "By all accounts..."

What accounts are you proposing that I consider? I'll gladly research them.
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#172196 Jul 15, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he just shows up at this "church" to save face for his/her little buddies that attend. Extreme rudeness, I agree!
I wonder if he/she even has a church to go to. He/she just acts like a bully on here because no one knows who he/she is. They find they get more attention bullying than responding civilly. The people who respond in kind really makes their day.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172197 Jul 15, 2013
PantyPooper II wrote:
<quoted text>
We know you are!!!
you have just been pooped by the Great PantyPooper II!! Praise Jesus and His Short and Curlies!!!!
Hey Pooper!

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172198 Jul 15, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
I am lovely, but owned I am not *smiles
OK I believe you maybe a looker! but have been owned by Bro. Clownie daily on topix! FACT

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172199 Jul 15, 2013
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if he/she even has a church to go to. He/she just acts like a bully on here because no one knows who he/she is. They find they get more attention bullying than responding civilly. The people who respond in kind really makes their day.
Matthew 5:11-12

11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Thanks for helping me down here Joe! you're the best buddy

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172200 Jul 15, 2013
Growing up I was a baptist and back then if someone asked me what church I went to I just answered them. I didn't have to cower and hide and run in circles trying to avoid this simple question.

What is heart warming as an atheist is when I see the decline in religion has grown to the point where believers are ashamed of their church.

It is exactly what I want to see happen :)
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>I know right!!! They can't stand to say which denomination they are. If they could just get their myths straight they could all be one big happy family lol.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172201 Jul 15, 2013
Never watched it, still ashamed to say what church you attend I see.

How nice to see we atheists are winning in that regard.
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>I bet you are a huge fan of Glee !!!:) snicker

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172202 Jul 15, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
You said "By all accounts..."
What accounts are you proposing that I consider? I'll gladly research them.
It's been years, sorry. I'll see if I can find the book titles. It was back in the 90's for me, pre-internets.

I remember reading about it when I was taking a college-level course on the whole bible. Back when I still believed in it.

I was rather surprised to learn that Revelations would not have been included, except that Constantine insisted over the objections of the council.

Further research showed me one interesting fact: the sole place in the NT which claims the **exclusive** path to heaven is the jesus way, is in Revelations...

... and it became clear to me, at least.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172203 Jul 15, 2013
You yourself brought up the fact they voted. Why must I teach you that which you already know. You avoid questions like wildfire may I add yet demand others answer your's.

Perhaps you can actually start answering my questions and we can have a back am forth instead of you asking me a question, I answer it, you run like hell and change the subject.

Let's start here. Paul did not meet Jesus in person he says he had visions and dreams about him. Why did this hallucinating dream noting man end up being the first person to document Jesus rather than people who supposedly met him? Also how can you prove his dreams weren't merely dreams and his visions not hallucinations?

Answer please.
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>Do you have scholarly evidence to support this assertion?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172204 Jul 15, 2013
Not to mention that is not the only version of Revelations. I think it was Luke that had his own version and scholars agree looking at the scrolls that Revelations likely had 3 up to 5 different writers based on wording changes and such.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>By all the accounts-- and there are few-- the vote was nearly (if not totally) unanimously against Revelations.

But Constantine insisted for some reason.

Why?

One reason could be the single place where christianity is exclusive, is in Revelations-- and no where else.

Constantine required an exclusive clause, to justify forcing people to convert.

So....
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#172205 Jul 15, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 5:11-12
11 “Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Thanks for helping me down here Joe! you're the best buddy
Help you down, sorry but I don't run that way.:O):O)

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172207 Jul 15, 2013
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>
Help you down, sorry but I don't run that way.:O):O)
come on out!

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172208 Jul 15, 2013
For fast reference Bart Erhman the apologetic friendly agnostic speaks on this very subject in many of his YouTube videos.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>It's been years, sorry. I'll see if I can find the book titles. It was back in the 90's for me, pre-internets.

I remember reading about it when I was taking a college-level course on the whole bible. Back when I still believed in it.

I was rather surprised to learn that Revelations would not have been included, except that Constantine insisted over the objections of the council.

Further research showed me one interesting fact: the sole place in the NT which claims the **exclusive** path to heaven is the jesus way, is in Revelations...

... and it became clear to me, at least.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

#172209 Jul 15, 2013


Bro Clownie's preacher enjoy

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#172210 Jul 15, 2013
If in T town you will find the clown on his knees in the men's room doing his ahem examinations that he so often tells us about.

Being a gay Christian must be tremendously difficult for him but he certainly is a gay man and should be accepting of that.
Joe Fortuna wrote:
<quoted text>Help you down, sorry but I don't run that way.:O):O)

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172211 Jul 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Not to mention that is not the only version of Revelations. I think it was Luke that had his own version and scholars agree looking at the scrolls that Revelations likely had 3 up to 5 different writers based on wording changes and such.
<quoted text>
Indeed. There were many sources for many of the different "books".

Moreover, later scholarship including word analysis shows that the majority of NT books had various, multiple authors.

And that none of the books are named after the actual people who wrote them.

With a few possible exceptions of the Pauline ones which are not fakes.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#172212 Jul 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
For fast reference Bart Erhman the apologetic friendly agnostic speaks on this very subject in many of his YouTube videos.
<quoted text>
I think I saw one of his hour long speeches-- the one where he at first thought a historical Jesus was likely.

But when he began to dig deep into the facts of the case? He became convinced that there was no historical jesus-- all myths.

His point was that the very oldest NT books were all written by Paul (or someone posing as "paul").

And that **all** of Paul's jesus was entirely a creature of spirit--never one of flesh.

Only the later additions speak of a human jesus.

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172213 Jul 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
Growing up I was a baptist and back then if someone asked me what church I went to I just answered them. I didn't have to cower and hide and run in circles trying to avoid this simple question.
What is heart warming as an atheist is when I see the decline in religion has grown to the point where believers are ashamed of their church.
It is exactly what I want to see happen :)
<quoted text>
Isn't your celebration a bit premature? What Baptist church did you attend? First Baptist? Cavalry Baptist?

I attended Catholic church until my parents divorced. Then attended First Baptist as a teen. I lost my faith in my twenties and just came back to it within the last 7 years. Now I consider myself Protestant non-denominational. I believe in the traditional orthodox Protestant view as established at the Council of Nicea and the Council of Laodicea. I believe Martin Luther was correct in his action to nail his 95 Theses to the door of the church in Wittenburg, Germany. This paved the way for the common man to learn the truth of the gospels and break the man-made authority imposed by the Catholic church. I agree that Constantine used the church more for political expediency than for his own spiritual growth.

Now you know my Christian history. What is your history?
Joe Fortuna

Eureka, CA

#172214 Jul 15, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>come on out!
I'm not coming out of my clothes so you can check out my junk. I told you I don't run that way.:O):O)

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#172215 Jul 15, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
You yourself brought up the fact they voted. Why must I teach you that which you already know. You avoid questions like wildfire may I add yet demand others answer your's.
Yes they voted on issues such as bringing back bishops that had been excommunicated for heresy. I haven't avoided your questions. I simply don't read all of your posts. And those few that I do read, are at my leisure. I just don't have all day to read and post. Since you wish to engage in meaningful dialogue, I'll be happy to oblige.
Givemeliberty wrote:
Perhaps you can actually start answering my questions and we can have a back am forth instead of you asking me a question, I answer it, you run like hell and change the subject.


I don't know where you get the idea that I run and change the subject, but if that's your perception, then I'll try to be more aware of your concerns. Fair enough?
Givemeliberty wrote:
Let's start here. Paul did not meet Jesus in person he says he had visions and dreams about him. Why did this hallucinating dream noting man end up being the first person to document Jesus rather than people who supposedly met him? Also how can you prove his dreams weren't merely dreams and his visions not hallucinations?
Answer please.
I'll be glad to answer your question but I ask questions to clarify. I don't want to misrepresent your concerns as that wouldn't be fair.

Where in the bible does Paul claim that he had a dream or vision? Can we start there and continue on?

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