Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172092
Jul 15, 2013
 
Stop cowering there are thousands of variations of Christian churches from catholic to Mormon.

Which Christian denomination do you belong to.

Isn't it funny how so many Christholes are to scared to say what religion they belong to on here? Seriously I laugh at their humiliation.
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>not at all its a christian church... have you ever attended a church???

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#172093
Jul 15, 2013
 
Your church teaches you it's okay to use the middle finger? No wonder you are ashamed to say what church you go to. It must not be much of a church from the way you turned out.
T-Town Clown wrote:
Its off to work I go! Hey all my atheist peeps see my middle finger? I shall return!

Since: Jul 13

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#172094
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Shall I copy n paste some of his quotes for you to defend? I will if you actually respond and not cower away as you are so prone to do.
Cower away? How do you come to the conclusion that I cower away?
Is it because I don't spend 24/7 on here? Is it because I don't devote all of my attention to your concerns? Is it because I don't answer your concerns or challenges in the manner you would expect me to?

Would you please clarify your statement?
Givemeliberty wrote:
The NT is a myth that follows in the footsteps of dozens of other savior son of god stories from the region.
Okay, how did you come to that conclusion?

Before you answer, consider the following.

The 1898 novel "Wreck of the Titan" was a fictitious story penned by
American novelist Morgan Robertson. The story was about the largest ocean-liner ever built. In the novel, the Titan hit an iceberg on it's maiden voyage, and sank with a horrible loss of life. It was a fictitious story published 17 years before the Titanic.

In 1915, the ocean liner Titanic (notice the first six letters?) was commissioned and was the largest passenger ship in existence at that time. On it's maiden voyage, it struck an iceberg and sank with a horrible loss of life. This is a real historical event that was written about. The details became known because there were survivors who described what they saw.

So my next question is this:

Fictitious stories of ships hitting icebergs were common in the late 19th century and early 20th century. There are other stories very similar to this one.*Did this novel "Wreck of the Titan" influence the historical events of the sinking of the Titanic?*

Since: Sep 08

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#172095
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
Probably having his diaper changed.
<quoted text>
No, I am waiting for your diaper to be changed.

You are a little stinky butt.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172096
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
Fraudulent? Hardly. Jesus toyed with the Pharisees during His ministry because they thought they knew everything, and because of their self-righteous bigotry. The Pharisees were the "Fundies" of their day. To people struggling with doubts (atheists, skeptics, cynics) he was much more patient and understanding. Jesus only toyed with those who thought they were better than others. He toyed with Pontius Pilate even while being tried in a capital case.
I would expect better from a ... god. Even one in the guise of a man.

After all-- a god has all of human history to draw on, for examples of rebuttals.

Moreover? An actual **god** would have **godly** replies to even the most low-brow commentary.

Did Jesus?

No.

Not at all, really. Very human he was-- he even got mad at a fig, for failing to produce fruit out of season-- and he, in his human weakness, cursed it.

Jesus was just a man, after all-- not a god.

And it showed.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172097
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
God uses ambiguity not to deceive or toy with true seekers, but to separate those who truly want to understand, from those who don't want to understand or those who think they don't need to.
So, basically, you are saying your god is just a d!ck?

For that **is** what you just said above:

"Neener-neener-neener! If you are not fooled by the obscure and deliberately obfuscated non-message? OFF TO HELL WITH YOU!"

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172098
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
There's nothing fraudulent about compelling people to really dig down deep for the truth.
Actually?

That is **exactly** the definition of fraud!

Since, as you believe, the RESULTS are so DIRE.

If the end result did not end in infinite torture?

You **might** have a slight case....

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172099
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
Okay, what makes you think T-Town is "hate filled?"
Use advanced google. Google my name and his.

You will be rewarded with such **hate** from him as you've never experienced.

Seriously-- he has spewed some of the most nasty filth on Topix-- a lot of it got deleted by mods, so heinous it was.

But that does seem to be the most common reaction I get from you True Believers™-- hate-spew.

You appear to be an exception, which is why I bothered to make a thoughtful reply.

Time will tell, though, whether you fall into the character I've come to expect, or if you remain civil.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172100
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
. I don't agree with everything Pat Robertson says or does, but I can't assume that he hates people. If you want to discuss the subject of intolerance, that's a good thing. But let me ask a question. What exactly is your idea of intolerance?
What else can you call it, when he uses his Bully Pulpit to literally bring down hate and persecution on entire segments of the population?

I call what he does hate-speech.

He literally calls out for his followers to go out and commit violence against gays, atheists and non-christians.

If you load a gun, and attach a sign commanding your followers to go out and use it?

They will.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172101
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you misunderstood my point. The out-of-towner was the smug arrogant one, and was attempting to belittle the store owner insidiously.
So?
Roman Apologist wrote:
He was being sneaky and disrespectful, and not appreciating that the store owner was allowing him to be in his store in the first place.
Again... so? Does that in turn, call out for a reply of the same?

Why stoop to the lower level?
Roman Apologist wrote:
The smug out-of-towner didn't even connect the name of the store with his own behavior. "Humble Inn" A play on the word "humbling."
Again-- so what? Who died and appointed the store owner to be the arbiter of who is and who is not humble?

Hmmm?

The store owner gave back worse-- MUCH worse than the minor insult he got.

Is **that** what your god does?

Is this an example of the massive EGO of the store owner?

I think it is-- the owner was "insulted".

poor baby.

So, using his superior knowledge of the area, he **deliberately** wastes the time of the other man.

That is **much** worse than a mere insult.

And it displays a massive ego on the part of the store owner too.

Finally?

Did it teach a lesson? No-- it only showed how much of a local smartazz the owner was.

And how he could use his superior knowledge of the local roads, to get back at the snooty stranger.

THAT IS NOT HUMBLE AT ALL.

That is massive arrogance.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172102
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
That's the lesson. And it's a good one.
No-- it's a lesson of arrogance and ego.

What happened to a kind word turns away wrath?

What happened to a kind word in return to a hateful one, heaps hot coals on their heads?

Had the store owner remained polite-- he could have had a sale or three.

But no-- his massively bloated EGO simply DEMANDED that he play a nasty trick on the obnoxious out-of-towner.

Did he teach a lesson?

You betcha: NEVER TRUST A LOCAL. THEY WILL GET YOU WORSE THAN MERE INSULT

Come to think of it?

That's a pretty good lesson-- but NOT the one YOU think.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172103
Jul 15, 2013
 

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albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
One would think that people who are convinced that they are going to a place where the streets are paved with gold (what good's it going to do them?) and lie around on clouds playing the harp for a million gazillion years wouldn't be so afraid to die....wouldn't they?
Yes-- you would think that at each funeral they would celebrate.

Is this the case?

Nope.

More? You'd think they'd all refuse any and all medication.

Is **that** the case?

No again.

Hypocrites, the whole lot.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172104
Jul 15, 2013
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I found the shop-owner to be the sneaky and disrespectful one. He was the one that sent a customer on a long journey only to bring him back to the very same store. The shop owner was the one that seems to think he knows better than the customer what is good for the customer. And that is arrogance. The shop clearly didn't have what the customer wanted, yet the shop owner, promising a better shop, wastes the time of the customer and then gives exactly what was already determined to be insufficient.
Perhaps the shop owner saw the customer as being smug and cocky when he simply knew what he wanted and found the shop didn't have it. It seems to me that it was the shop owner that sought to belittle the customer, not the other way around.
Your lesson is mixed up.
I agree exactly-- you expressed it more eloquently than I, but I too found the shop owner arrogant and possessing of a missive ego.

In his massive pride, he could not let a minor insult go unanswered.

Rather like the bible's god, come to think of it...

... no **wonder** he got the lesson wrong!

:D

Since: Jul 13

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#172105
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
I would expect better from a ... god. Even one in the guise of a man.
After all-- a god has all of human history to draw on, for examples of rebuttals.
Moreover? An actual **god** would have **godly** replies to even the most low-brow commentary.
What is your definition of a "godly reply?"
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Did Jesus?
No.
Not at all, really. Very human he was-- he even got mad at a fig, for failing to produce fruit out of season-- and he, in his human weakness, cursed it.
Jesus was just a man, after all-- not a god.
And it showed.
I don't see how the cursing of the fig tree fits into your argument. I would like to understand how it fits into our dialogue. May I ask how you perceive the word "curse?"

Was it a rhetorical curse or a supernatural curse?

Do you understand it as Jesus swore at the tree in anger, or did he supernaturally inhibit the tree from producing fruit? Or both?

Since: Jul 13

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#172106
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
What else can you call it, when he uses his Bully Pulpit to literally bring down hate and persecution on entire segments of the population?
I call what he does hate-speech.
He literally calls out for his followers to go out and commit violence against gays, atheists and non-christians.
If you load a gun, and attach a sign commanding your followers to go out and use it?
They will.
I don't pay much attention to televangelists, so I'm not sure what Pat Robertson even does. I'm not defending his views, but I do wonder how a televangelist can claim any success by such actions. I'm sorry that I can't really comment here because I lack the personal knowledge of his views.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172107
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your definition of a "godly reply?"
A godly reply would be one that was so incredibly amazing, that anyone-- any human anywhere-- would immediately recognize it as too amazing for a mere human to have uttered.

A godly reply would be infinitely better than the best come-back, ever in the history of the planet.

A godly reply would be such an amazing pick-up line (if it were couched as such) that all women and most men, would immediately swoon upon hearing it.

A godly reply would so sway a jury, that even the Judge would cry, "case dismissed! That was such an amazing a comment, there your Holiness, there is no need to continue the trial."

And **everyone**-- even the prosecution--- would agree.

A godly reply would be ..

... immediately and obviously....

... godly.

Your bible?

Nothing in there comes even close to qualifying.

It's all re-hashed, plagiarized stories lifted here and there from other, older myths.

Not.

One.

Single.

Original.

Idea within the whole.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172108
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
I don't see how the cursing of the fig tree fits into your argument. I would like to understand how it fits into our dialogue. May I ask how you perceive the word "curse?"
Well, the story is 100% myth, so it's really impossible to make complete sense out of it.

But I always saw it as a bit of editing that didn't get stripped-- it was likely one of many such tales woven in, to prove that jesus was **human**.

You do know that there was a massive fight about that, in the early days, weather jesus was **human** or spirit?

And there wasn't any middle ground-- until Constantine's committee forced the two camps together into a mish-mash hodge-poge that it is today.

But back to the tale: Jesus acted out of spite, clearly-- the poor fig was out of season.

Yet, your jesus cursed it to die in a fit of pique.

Not godly.

But very,**very** human.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#172109
Jul 15, 2013
 
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't pay much attention to televangelists, so I'm not sure what Pat Robertson even does. I'm not defending his views, but I do wonder how a televangelist can claim any success by such actions. I'm sorry that I can't really comment here because I lack the personal knowledge of his views.
Well-- you just managed to engender respect from this old cynic, for being ignorant of Robertson.

He is a horrid example of the subtype.

Alas, he is also--to me-- a fine example of why there cannot possibly be any **good** or **caring** deities in the present universe.

What sort of god would suffer the likes of Robertson and his ilk, to balk millions out of their pensions, to make himself into an exclusive spokes-person for said god, and to turn so many away due to Robertson's obvious hypocrisy?

No-- free will doesn't cut the mustard. The bible is chock-full of example after example where bible-god **forces** people to do his bidding, regardless.

Where are metaphorical the giant fishes, to swallow up the Robertson's of the world, to return their preaching to the proper path?

Hmmmm?

If god is real?

He certainly displays a great deal of ...

...**not** giving a crap about the fate of the world's people!

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

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#172110
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't pay much attention to televangelists,...
I must say, Mr Roman Apologist, you have managed to surprise me.

But even better? You made me stretch a bit, in answer to your replies.

That's not happened in quite a bit, from a theist.

:)

I have enjoyed exchanging ideas with you so far.

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#172111
Jul 15, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree exactly-- you expressed it more eloquently than I, but I too found the shop owner arrogant and possessing of a missive ego.
In his massive pride, he could not let a minor insult go unanswered.
Rather like the bible's god, come to think of it...
... no **wonder** he got the lesson wrong!
:D
Why do you view it that way?

I see it as not punishing the snooty customer, but as giving him a chance to re-evaluate his initial behavior. Remember, the guest was the smug one and was being sneaky and under-handed about it. The shop owner merely gave the snooter an opportunity to realize it for himself.

When I reiterated that the out-of-towner had been smug and condescending you replied "So?" as if the out-of-towner had every right to treat the store owner this way without any penalty or sense of accountability. Your reply seems, on the surface, to endorse the actions of the snooty customer as somehow socially acceptable. Am I interpreting that correctly?

I'm curious as to how that view is any less arrogant than that of the store owner. The store owner could have kicked the snooty customer out. And then what would the customer learn? Would he learn humility or would he learn that he just isn't welcome in that store any longer? My thoughts upon first hearing that were that the store owner was still willing to allow the customer to come back, but instead of pointing out the customer's behavior, let him do a little work that shows him he's not as smart as he thought he was. There is no better teacher than self induced humiliation. The snooty man was not obligated to follow the owner's instructions.

The best lessons are the ones that cause us discomfort and embarrassment, because they cause us (if we're honestly observant) to realize that we're no better than the next guy, and they hold us accountable. If we're so smug and snooty that we don't recognize it for ourselves, what's the better choice? Are we to be banished by the owner with no hope of redemption; or do we learn a lasting lesson from a journey in which we come to realize it by experience and humility?

In the end, the store owner did our a snooty customer a favor, not a disservice. The disservice would have been to kick the customer out with no redemption, or to let him continue with his condescending behavior which would only encourage him to continue such behavior in the future.

What would you have done?

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