Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 239064 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#171520 Jul 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
A book review? Heavily on the opinion side?
Spooky peeps Dave?
Thanks for the laughs anyways.
<quoted text>
You can only have opinions about mythical figures, Butch. There is nothing to have facts about.

Thinking is not your forte, as is your wit. Try something you know. Get the Johnson out of the drawer and show wifey what a man you are again.

“saved From jesus”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#171521 Jul 9, 2013
atheism is evil wrote:
<quoted text>
If the accounts of the Bible did not occur, then why didn't a group of atheists ever "free think" to write an anti-Bible? I think we all know they are liars.
No, they just didn't want to be murdered.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#171522 Jul 9, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
You have pegged the Dave method of failing almost perfectly.
Just add in his long rambling off topic posts ala Grandpa Simpson and you will have it 100%
He just comes here for our amusement anyways. Good for a laugh, like he is a so called deist in his own words, yet see Christian apologetic arguments and strongly defends Jesus and Paul.... Just like a deist right? Lol :))
<quoted text>
How true, how true! Thanks for adding that final and essential touch.

“saved From jesus”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#171523 Jul 9, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
Lol...this has got to be one of your best ones yet! Why would anyone have a need to write an anti-bible? lol
Death wish?

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#171524 Jul 9, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
How true, how true! Thanks for adding that final and essential touch.
:-)

You two are amusing. So innocent.

Existence is so simple for you.

Be careful about moving into the deeper portions of the pool of knowledge and thought of mankind. You will drown if you aren't careful.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#171525 Jul 9, 2013
Jerusalem was just a nothing happening little town eh? Wow you are going for broke on the senile meter tonight eh?

Psssst you do realize that Socrates and the Jesus myth happened at two different time periods don't you Dave? It's like comparing media coverage of President Washington and Obama.

First century Jerusalem had a wealth of scholars and historians documenting events an people no matter how much you want to stamp your feet.

Now do you have secular, historical proof that Jesus existed or not? Since he was on everyone's doorstep it seems someone would have wrote about him right?
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>I'm waiting for your Socrates proof of existence.

Socrates was at the center of his civilization, and an alleged pain in the ass to the powers that were. Should be some official documentation.

Judea was a jerkwater nowhere in the Roman Empire with a bunch of unsophisticated, superstitious, and pain in the ass yokels. Not even a footnote. You will find similar lack of records from many such places in the empire.

Socrates was advanced through the Roman Empire by writings they read about him. JC was advanced by those writing about him showing up on their doorstep, then the Romans advanced him through the Roman Empire.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#171526 Jul 9, 2013
You can only have opinions about mythical figures? So people can't have opinions on actual people? Nobody has an opinion on Obama or GWB?

Wow Dave you are just getting dumber by the post. I suggest you lay down before you hurt yourself old timer.
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>You can only have opinions about mythical figures, Butch. There is nothing to have facts about.

Thinking is not your forte, as is your wit. Try something you know. Get the Johnson out of the drawer and show wifey what a man you are again.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#171527 Jul 9, 2013
Look up grandpa Simpson onion belt on YouTube and behold it's a cartoon version of Dave!
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>How true, how true! Thanks for adding that final and essential touch.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#171528 Jul 10, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>
in spiritual darkness,
under the power of Satan,
separated from Christ,
without hope,
without God in this world,
foolish,
disobedient,
deceived,
you're all these things IMO
Why are you talking about yourself?

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#171529 Jul 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
In other words you made it up.
<quoted text>
No need to make it up. But the majority of sources on the internet are pro-Christian sources, BECAUSE of the evidence. The atheist always wants to claim that such websites are biased and dismiss the argument on that level which is nothing more than lazy. If you want to find out, google it. I'm not going to waste my time listing we bsites that you're going to dismissed because of "bias" anyway. When I write, it's to be read, to let the narrative sink in a little if the reader is open minded enough. If not, it's your choice. If I quote somebody else, I'll list it. If it's not a direct quote, I'll tell you to google it for yourself. So stop whining and google it.
You'll find arguments for or against just about anything.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171530 Jul 10, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> LOL this stuff is a conspiracy made out of a conspiracy.
Kind of like 911 research or someshit. Jebus research team no. 6 .
Tell me, what would you call it when a group of people of a particular religious sect organise intimidation, threats, violence, anarchy and terrorism against the lawful government of a county?

This stuff exists hence the book citations. It certainly has more substance than the babble in that it can be verified in the documents of the contemporary archives I mentioned. Unlike the NT that canít.

I was involved in checking some of the data used in those books, particularly the life of Pantrera and the plot by Titus and Josephus against the Forth Philosophy.

The involvement of Pantera is mentioned (more than once) in the Tanakh, the cannon of the Hebrew bible, from which the OT was selectively copied and edited to suit the christian religion. So are you saying that the Tanakh is a conspiracy?

However everyone has an opinion.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171531 Jul 10, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I have heard of the Jesus son of Pantera account that has a wealth of historical proof unlike this so called Jesus of the bible which has none whatsoever.
<quoted text>
This is true, documented proof exists in not only the roman archives but the Tanakh.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171532 Jul 10, 2013
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>Do you mean that? cause I can get kinky dinky baby...
Yes we all know that a sparrow farting in a car park turns you on, me I have more refunded taste

BTW, do you realise that a rubber doll with never replace your sister for warmth and comfort in your bed

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171533 Jul 10, 2013
Thinking wrote:
DK Clunt only got sex when his girlfriend died.
<quoted text>
I heard he has been given a second hand rubber doll with a slow puncture

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#171534 Jul 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
"No, I am pointing out the different possibilities that science has uncovered. Without extra data we cannot tell which of the possibilities is reality."
Possibilities. Could be this, could be that, or maybe that there. Keep sending money, we will figure it out some time. Promise, maybe.
Christine DingaLing uses it all the time, as do others. Why haven't you corrected them?
I have never used 10^-34th of a second in regard to matter That Is approximately the moment in time when the laws that govern this universe began to coalesce.

Polymath has corrected me, I used to think that was the moment when the laws came into existence as laws, I bow to his expertise and now understand that it took some several billionths of a second to actually become laws.

Matter is a completely different matter but we can sympathise with your confusion

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#171535 Jul 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
:-)
You two are amusing. So innocent.
Existence is so simple for you.
Be careful about moving into the deeper portions of the pool of knowledge and thought of mankind. You will drown if you aren't careful.
When you've learned morals & you're brave enough to prove your god, you won't need to threaten us with your feeble imagination.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#171536 Jul 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You can only have opinions about mythical figures, Butch. There is nothing to have facts about.
Thinking is not your forte, as is your wit. Try something you know. Get the Johnson out of the drawer and show wifey what a man you are again.
Sh*t the f*ck up Educated Wh*t.
spudgun

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#171537 Jul 10, 2013
Roman Apologist wrote:
<quoted text>
No need to make it up. But the majority of sources on the internet are pro-Christian sources, BECAUSE of the evidence....
What evidence? What extr-ordinary evidence do you have to support the wacky claims of Christianity?

“a.k.a. GhostWriter2U”

Since: Jul 13

Location hidden

#171538 Jul 10, 2013
albtraum wrote:
<quoted text>
The only person in the bible who has secular proof of existence (that I know of) is Pontius Pilate. His name is recorded in Roman records as a government official.
The Romans did not have a religious drum to beat. The records do not say anything else about him, whether he pronounced judgement on a man named Jesus or even whether or not he had a wife who might or might not have a had a dream.
Again, do you have any independent, secular proof? We've all heard fish stories.....and the one that got away keeps growing. That's pretty much an example of oral history.
Tacitus was a Roman official and a historian, and did write that Jesus existed. Now it's true that Tacitus didn't live in the same time as Jesus, but then again many people who write factual accounts aren't witnesses of what they write.

Assuming that somebody from Jesus' own time just had to write about him is a thin assumption for two reasons.

1) Just because other people in a specific time period are written about does not necessarily mean that others are. That's an assumption because of our own modern advances in writing and advances in technology. Today, anything and everything makes the news. Back then in an oral tradition culture, not so much. In our Western culture, most people know how to read and write with varying degrees of skill, whereas it wasn't that way as much in first century Palestine.

2) Just because we don't have anything from Jesus directly, or any writing left that was written while he was alive doesn't mean that there wasn't any at all. Two thousand years is an awfully long time for any document to survive when it's being passed around and examined, read, re-read, re-distributed, hand copied, etc, etc. Just how long is a 2,000 year old document supposed to last?

Now let me add a third item of interest for consideration in this discussion.

Atheists say the bible can't be used to prove the bible which is good reasoning because that's a circular argument. But, the bible can be used as a historical document just like any other. The language structure and cultural inferences are there if we care to look at them critically, yet as objectively as possible. They are based on what people truly believed they saw and heard. As a matter of strongly and widely held scholarly opinion, even among skeptical scholars, if we treat the gospel accounts as nothing more than history, we will understand them much better than if we try to read them as divinely inspired. When we attempt to read them as divinely inspired as a skeptic, we are already carrying an antagonistic bias and reject them on our emotional values rather than on true objectivity.

Oh, and one more item. Just because Dave Nelson claims to be a deist and still argues for the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth does not mean he is a Christian. This is yet another assumption. Scholars Gerd Ludemann (atheist) and Bart Ehrman (agnostic with atheist leanings) have both written that Jesus did exist, and they don't have any theological interest in proving otherwise. In fact, when it comes to the New Testament, Gerd and Bart are probably the most historically accurate skeptics out there. Granted, I'm a Christian, I still respect their historical expertise even if I disagree with their final conclusions.

The entire Jesus as myth argument is just lazy and contemptible in my opinion, and here's why I feel that way.

When there's a mountain of evidence that most scholars agree on (even critical scholars) and that evidence is dismissed anyways, it's not based on logic or historical knowledge. It's dismissed on emotional grounds because the person can't handle the truth of what's being presented. If Jesus is real, then you have a choice to make, and it's a very personal and deeply emotional choice. By removing Jesus as real, you're removing the emotional discomfort you feel that accompanies the obligation to choose. It's intellectual fence sitting, and lazy.
Bongo

Central Islip, NY

#171539 Jul 10, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You can only have opinions about mythical figures, Butch. There is nothing to have facts about.
Thinking is not your forte, as is your wit. Try something you know. Get the Johnson out of the drawer and show wifey what a man you are again.
bwhahahahahahahaha hehehehehehe you have give me liverwish pegged, how he shows his face around here is beyond me.

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