Atheism requires as much faith as rel...

Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 256538 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Webbunny tumblelog.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170738 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the math whiz. I asked you to do that.
Gravity has to have something to do with it. Don't you base your entire physics and cosmology on it? I thought gravity helped keep the electron bound. Perhaps you can enlighten us on how things "really" work.
Gravity is additive.
No, gravity has very little to do with keeping the electron bound. The strength of the gravitational force here is so small it is undetectable by any of our measurements. It is much, much, much smaller than the electric force in this case (which is the primary force for keeping electrons bound).

Yes, gravity helps keep *galaxies* bound, but that is because galaxies are very close to being electrically neutral and the E&M effects on their motion is small.

Once again, you ignore the details. For atoms, gravity is so small as to be irrelevant while for galaxies, E&M is mostly irrelevant (although more so than gravity is for atoms).

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170739 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you have one without the other?
Yes, of course. An unchanging electric field does not make a magnetic field. A slowly changing electric field will make a magnetic field so small that it doesn't significantly affect the results.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#170740 Jul 3, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> Goofy Dave, you can just put a clothespin on your nose and wear a tinfoil hat, then show me the electric current in a permanent magnet.
Auralie, how many atoms does it take to create an electric current? Realize an electric current is just passing a charge, and the passing of that charge induces a magnetic field. A simple displacement thingy.

This is basic physics without the sophistry.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170741 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
A material that has its atomic structure locked into place AFTER being magnetized by an electric current producing a magnetic field. The field passing through the material creates the electrical charge to set this up.
Again, you miss the details. It isn't an *electric* charge that is getting set up. The magnetic field aligns the spins of the atoms (if the material is paramagnetic or ferromagnetic) and the alignment of the spins produces the permanent magnetic fields. There is no new charge.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#170742 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
The message was the Creator manifested a part of itself as a human informing you that there was life after death if you believed in what he said. The Creator created you, he can create another life for you in another form perhaps. This manifestation felt the physical life and pain that the Creator of this physical life couldn't feel. The Creator learned something from the experience, too. The Holy Spirit was the link that allowed this.
You didn't have to buy the stairway to heaven, you just had to believe. JC cut out the middleman. The middlemen cut him out.
JC gave you individuality. You have your own link to the Creator. You didn't have to be a part of the herd again.
It's called looking beyond the immediate.
Amphigory.

Look it up.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170743 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
No it isn't. The field produced around the permanent magnet is being produced by the stress on the atoms within it.
No stress. Just aligned spins.
You get a loopback or feedback effect once you got it started. There is an EM induction happening on the molecular scale. This is why you get flux lines, and not a monolithic magnetic field.
No, that is NOT what happens. An alignment of magnets (and the spin makes a small magnet out of the atom) is not an inductive effect. Get your details right.
Magnetic fields and electrical currents exist only relative to the clumps of matter they emanate from.
Simply wrong. Light, for example, is an oscillating electromagnetic field and exists independently of the matter it emanates from.
They can include others in other clumps of matter and combine creating an even more complex flow because of that EM induction and feedback.
You use the words, but clearly don't understand what they mean. Induction is a very specific effect and is NOT what is going on here.
Hang a paperclip on a string and move your finger close to it and see what happens. Then take some disc magnets or a speaker magnet and put in in your other hand behind your back and try it again.
Then try the hanging rock thing.:-)
I just did your experiment. Nothing different. The disc magnets were too far from the paperclip. So?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170744 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Auralie, how many atoms does it take to create an electric current? Realize an electric current is just passing a charge, and the passing of that charge induces a magnetic field. A simple displacement thingy.
This is basic physics without the sophistry.
OK, if the atom is electrically neutral (uncharged), what is the current? What is the induced magnetic field?

Suppose we have a single atom passing by at 100km/sec. What is the induced magnetic field 1 meter away? What effect would this have on a refrigerator magnet?

You are thinking about effects that happen in the 20th decimal place and ignoring things that happen in the 2nd.

Details, details, details.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#170745 Jul 3, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll answer your question, but I also would like to ask you one as well.
I do not think that you will always reject Jesus. I think you reject others' views of who Jesus was and is, and what He taught if it collides with your own views. For those who reject Jesus even up to bodily death, there is exclusion from the presence of God. You don't get to spend eternity in a state of continuous and infinite love and light. You will live, but in darkness and regret.
Now here is my question to you:
What do you think you would have to give up to accept Jesus as Lord in your life? What do you believe (at this point in your life) it would cost you if my answer to your question is correct?
Well I thank you for not condemning me to eternal torture in lakes of liquid fire. But there is still a dire consequence to my rejection of Jesus, or so you think. The point being, I could be a serial child molester having tortured and murdered innocent children, but apparently all I need do to gain access into heaven is repent my sins. I, on the other hand, could be a loving husband and father, give to numerous charities, be a model citizen, but because I reject Jesus, the serial murderer ends up getting a much better deal. Does this seem at all fair to you?

I can't imagine a situation were I would suddenly accept Jesus, I've lived most of my life convinced he existence was mythical. I will accept the fact that a preacher bearing his name roamed the countryside at that period of time, but the rest of the story including the miracles and crucifixion, are fictional.

In order for me to accept Jesus, and all the comes with that belief, I would have to give up what is most precious to me, my reason and logic. Your answer may well be correct, but I have prided myself on never accepting anything without evidence.

And thank you once again for a civil discourse, rather than the bozo the clown/goober hull comments.

“Wrath”

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#170746 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Auralie, how many atoms does it take to create an electric current? Realize an electric current is just passing a charge, and the passing of that charge induces a magnetic field. A simple displacement thingy.
This is basic physics without the sophistry.
Magnets from spin alignment is one thing but.....
NIST got their atoms to do a square dance.

http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/quantum_gate.c...



Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#170747 Jul 3, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
First, the diameter of a proton is not well defined. ALL quantum level distances are probabilistic. So, we can talk about the *average* radius of the probability distribution for the proton. That is approximately 1-2 fm.
The electron cloud for the lowest energy level, the s orbital, is distributed in such a way that there is a non-zero probability of finding the electron at the center (i.e, at the proton). Once again, though, we can use the *average* value for the radius for that distribution, which is 59 pm. This is produced by a balancing of the electric force of attraction between the electron and the proton and the quantum effects that tend to spread out the electron distribution. The ratio of the two distances is about 40,000. The gravitational effect here is minimal, only affecting the 40th decimal point of the ratio (and we clearly do not have the accuracy to determine that). It should be pointed out that the electron in this lowest orbital has zero angular momentum.
This can all be found, if necessary, by solving the Schrodinger equation for the hydrogen atom. The results agree with observations.
<quoted text>
Once again, gravity only affects the 40th decimal place or so, so it can be ignored at this level of accuracy. There will be a sigma bonding orbital filled by the two electrons, along with a vibrational state along the axis of the molecule. So the distance between the protons varies over time because of bond vibration. The average distance between the protons is about 84 pm.
This is a result of balancing between the attraction of the protons and electrons and the repulsion between the two protons and also between the two electrons. There is again a strong quantum effect spreading the orbitals out and, in particular, producing both the bonding and anti-bonding orbitals.
And this is relevant why?
To get the ideal geometry based upon your formulas without the rest of the universe getting in the way. Not that you put it in an understandable way.

Take a piece of paper and and make dots all over it. Each dot represents a mass or something that has gravity. Add all the dots and come up with your total gravitational force. Between each and every dot exists this attraction in varying amounts according to distance, so each dot is comprised of a fraction of the whole force in a straight line between those dots. There is no real quantity to each mass, it is a shifting of the whole shebang. The shifting can be accomplished by clumps in close proximity having a stronger attraction, essentially levering density and causing motion, or it can be moved by the EM force which is considerably stronger, but dependent upon orientation, but this force is a derivative of motion.

That molecule of the booger in your nose is locked into it's place by the entire gravity of the universe. You aren't going to pick it unless the universe allows you to. You may summon up enough energy on a local scale to do so, but it won't happen unless a few galaxies get out of the way.

That molecule has all the gravity of the universe collected within it. From all of the molecules in the earth, the sun, the Milky Way, and everyplace else we know of. It's a node of a larger whole.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#170748 Jul 3, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, if the atom is electrically neutral (uncharged), what is the current? What is the induced magnetic field?
Suppose we have a single atom passing by at 100km/sec. What is the induced magnetic field 1 meter away? What effect would this have on a refrigerator magnet?
You are thinking about effects that happen in the 20th decimal place and ignoring things that happen in the 2nd.
Details, details, details.
The sun's magnetic field is the strength of a refrigerator magnet. But it is a much larger one volumewise, so more lines of flux to cross.

It is strong enough to shield the solar system from cosmic rays. Voyager is near the edge of it now. It is recording the changes 17 hours of light speed from here. That is not insignificant. Your life depends upon it.

“Wrath”

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#170749 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
To get the ideal geometry based upon your formulas without the rest of the universe getting in the way. Not that you put it in an understandable way.
Take a piece of paper and and make dots all over it. Each dot represents a mass or something that has gravity. Add all the dots and come up with your total gravitational force. Between each and every dot exists this attraction in varying amounts according to distance, so each dot is comprised of a fraction of the whole force in a straight line between those dots. There is no real quantity to each mass, it is a shifting of the whole shebang. The shifting can be accomplished by clumps in close proximity having a stronger attraction, essentially levering density and causing motion, or it can be moved by the EM force which is considerably stronger, but dependent upon orientation, but this force is a derivative of motion.
That molecule of the booger in your nose is locked into it's place by the entire gravity of the universe. You aren't going to pick it unless the universe allows you to. You may summon up enough energy on a local scale to do so, but it won't happen unless a few galaxies get out of the way.
That molecule has all the gravity of the universe collected within it. From all of the molecules in the earth, the sun, the Milky Way, and everyplace else we know of. It's a node of a larger whole.
You scored a 6.7 on the gobbledygook scale.
Thinking

Lymington, UK

#170750 Jul 3, 2013
If you drink enough pints of water, you can die - but no one could afford that much of the "special stuff".
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Hmm, I don't think so - is it even possible to OD on distilled water?

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#170751 Jul 3, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text> You scored a 6.7 on the gobbledygook scale.
If you weren't so immersed in Scripture you would understand it.

Turn those fancy physics terms into reality.

“Wrath”

Since: Dec 10

Is revenant

#170752 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
If you weren't so immersed in Scripture you would understand it.
Turn those fancy physics terms into reality.

Ugh huh.....Quote

"That molecule of the booger in your nose is locked into it's place by the entire gravity of the universe."

Unquote

fancy physics?

You mean Dave Phizuks or troll science?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#170753 Jul 3, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
That molecule of the booger in your nose is locked into it's place by the entire gravity of the universe. You aren't going to pick it unless the universe allows you to. You may summon up enough energy on a local scale to do so, but it won't happen unless a few galaxies get out of the way.
Showing your complete lack of understanding of gravity, of E&M, and of physics.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#170754 Jul 3, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Showing your complete lack of understanding of gravity, of E&M, and of physics.
Go back and study how the BBT, laws of thermodynamics, and most of physics theory developed from a physical perspective, and not the math models you have been following. They got you lost.

You just think you understand those things.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#170755 Jul 3, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
I like this post of yours and Jesus would agree with much of it. Religion does do a lot of damage. But Christianity as started by Jesus through His sacrifice and resurrection wasn't intended to be a "religion." It was supposed to be "the way" to eternal life in the presence of God.
"Religion" is a man-made construct to make sense and regulate beliefs and behaviors. Jesus came to denounce "religion" and to show that the true way to God was through Him alone; not religion.
Sadly, many who self-identified as Christians have done horrible things to one another and to non-Christians as well. Their actions disqualify them from identity as "Christians."
Think of it this way:
If a doctor sedates a patient and then takes advantage of the patient for his own sexual desires, he has betrayed his trust and obligations, and therefore no longer deserves to be called a doctor, correct?
If a police officer pulls over a drug dealer and confiscates the drugs, and then later sells them to make a profit for himself, he betrays his position as a enforcer of law and protector of public safety, and is no longer worthy of being a police officer, correct?
But do we NOT go to a hospital just because of one doctor?
But do we NOT call police if we see a child hit by a hit and run driver, just because of one police officer?
There is a core truth to Christianity, just as there is core truth to medical treatment, and to law enforcement. Throwing away the essence of any of these is akin to throwing away the baby along with the bath water.
By definition, RELIGION is..."The belief and worship of a superhuman controlling power."

Now, let me ask you, what if tomorrow there suddenly came to light IRRIFUTABLE EVIDENCE that both Jesus and God never existed. How would your life change? No eternal afterlife. If there came to me IRRUFUTABLE EVIDENCE FOR the existence of both Jesus and God, my life would change very little. I would try and have a conversation with God about why he chose to remain hidden from mankind for so long knowing full well who damaging divisiveness was to his most prized creations? Why would he require faith in his existence rather than something demonstrable? Why attempt to deliver the most important message ever to mankind in a bronze age desolate desert region, to ignorant shepherds rather than a thriving civilization like China, or the Egyptian empire? And mostly, why all the obvious human failings contained in a holy book that is supposed to be his words and laws? Until these questions were answered to my satisfaction, I would continue to be wary of this entity. If he created me, then he endowed me with a brain capable of free thought, and that includes the trait of skepticism. He should have no problem with me exercising the gifts he supposedly gave to me.

In the end I would probably accept him as lord and master, but even lords and maters may have flaws.

Since: Sep 08

Westcliffe, CO

#170756 Jul 3, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>
Ugh huh.....Quote
"That molecule of the booger in your nose is locked into it's place by the entire gravity of the universe."
Unquote
fancy physics?
You mean Dave Phizuks or troll science?
You are displaying your iggorance on an international forum.

For you to move any particle of mass you have to shift the balance of gravitational forces throughout the universe. Period. The forces of gravity and EM are universal in reach, therefore all particles are tied together. Per the model of modern physics.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#170757 Jul 3, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
I like this post of yours and Jesus would agree with much of it. Religion does do a lot of damage. But Christianity as started by Jesus through His sacrifice and resurrection wasn't intended to be a "religion." It was supposed to be "the way" to eternal life in the presence of God.
"Religion" is a man-made construct to make sense and regulate beliefs and behaviors. Jesus came to denounce "religion" and to show that the true way to God was through Him alone; not religion.
Sadly, many who self-identified as Christians have done horrible things to one another and to non-Christians as well. Their actions disqualify them from identity as "Christians."
Think of it this way:
If a doctor sedates a patient and then takes advantage of the patient for his own sexual desires, he has betrayed his trust and obligations, and therefore no longer deserves to be called a doctor, correct?
If a police officer pulls over a drug dealer and confiscates the drugs, and then later sells them to make a profit for himself, he betrays his position as a enforcer of law and protector of public safety, and is no longer worthy of being a police officer, correct?
But do we NOT go to a hospital just because of one doctor?
But do we NOT call police if we see a child hit by a hit and run driver, just because of one police officer?
There is a core truth to Christianity, just as there is core truth to medical treatment, and to law enforcement. Throwing away the essence of any of these is akin to throwing away the baby along with the bath water.
And why was it necessary for Jesus to sacrifice himself and then resurrect? Does this have something to do with Eve eating from the forbidden fruit? If God is real, then he is omnipotent, he is all knowing all seeing, he knows what will happen in the future. If true, then God KNEW ahead of time that Eve would partake of the forbidden fruit. And knowing this would happen, he punished not only Adam and Eve, but ALL of mankind for thousands of years. He now has to create a loophole for this and sets in motion the sacrifice and resurrection of his son. However, if Christian doctrine is true, then Jesus/God?holy spirit are all part of the same entity, therefore God sacrifices himself to himself. Its total insanity.

Your analogies speak to individuals, religion is a mindset, an attitude, a philosophy. All religious thought is based on myths not reality. You are unable to show me ANY supportive evidence for the existence of either God or Jesus.

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