Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#169640 Jun 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
It requires faith in the judgment of the skeptic by the skeptic..
There's no such thing as god. If you disagree, you need to provide proof.

You've had since the biggining of recorded time itself to prove that you are not liars.

You've failed. How long do you think you can go on lying to people about god, before people wise up and demand proof?

Since: Jun 13

Milwaukee, WI

#169641 Jun 22, 2013
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you are right, mooze. Not much at all was really said. But I do have some thoughts on the subject.
Those who value science are people who have faith in verifiable data and observed results of experiments. Religion is something they judge on their own, regardless of what they were taught.
Those who value faith above science are people who have faith in parents, teachers and other authority figures who taught them their religion.
There are high and low IQs in both groups, though there is a greater tendency towards high IQs in the science related group.
The core value for each is faith: faith in data & observation; or faith in some trusted members of society.
there is no faith involved in science only factual evidence when chemist makes a medication to send to the pharmacy they dont have "faith" that it will work when sound is created scientist dont have "faith" that the sound waves will travel they know adsacly what will happen

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#169642 Jun 22, 2013
Siro wrote:
<quoted text>
If manna is the visible physical effect then what was the cause?
<quoted text>
Same from above applies here.
Is nature self created? And how do all the different components work together and how was this arranged?
<quoted text>
He can touch our hearts and on the same level it is your choice whether or not to have faith.
If you choose not to have faith, he can choose not to touch your heart.
Its not all about you....you know.
<quoted text>
Sounds like you have a problem with the religion you were in - not God.
Full of sh*t defeated creationist with no proof of god, shamelessly lying to people thousands of times more intelligent than himself.
Bongo

Coram, NY

#169643 Jun 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you. You are observant, but a bit off on the cause.
I had some serious success this week.
getting your consolation ol snatcher?
Siro

Sydney, Australia

#169644 Jun 22, 2013
-Skatip- wrote:
<quoted text>
Full of sh*t defeated creationist with no proof of god, shamelessly lying to people thousands of times more intelligent than himself.
As if anyone gives a sh1t for anything you say.

Since: Jun 13

Milwaukee, WI

#169645 Jun 22, 2013
Siro wrote:
<quoted text>
If manna is the visible physical effect then what was the cause?
<quoted text>
Same from above applies here.
Is nature self created? And how do all the different components work together and how was this arranged?
<quoted text>
He can touch our hearts and on the same level it is your choice whether or not to have faith.
If you choose not to have faith, he can choose not to touch your heart.
Its not all about you....you know.
<quoted text>
Sounds like you have a problem with the religion you were in - not God.

this should go down in the encylepedia as a text book example of ignorance and idiocy

on another note creationist need to learn that just because every detail of the universe hasnt been ironed out or unraveled with science yet doesnt automaticly means that your mythological being known as god exsist by defalt
Siro

Sydney, Australia

#169646 Jun 22, 2013
ignorance is bliss86 wrote:
<quoted text>
this should go down in the encylepedia as a text book example of ignorance and idiocy
on another note creationist need to learn that just because every detail of the universe hasnt been ironed out or unraveled with science yet doesnt automaticly means that your mythological being known as god exsist by defalt
This ^^^ definitely should.
Looks like daddy-o wasted his hedge fund trying to educate a spoiled rich kid deadsh!t like you

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#169648 Jun 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>Versus the idiot boys and girls getting on here claiming moral superiority in the name of mankind to approve dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.

I find it very difficult to worship mankind, and impossible to worship any man.

But perhaps you can.
But you have no trouble worshipping god.

How ironic.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#169649 Jun 22, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>People get sensitized and reactive when they are called idiots and names for their beliefs. That is why I react to these Topix atheist idiots. I started out and made a mistake of not calling theists idiots and they jumped on me. They made me do it.

But, back to worshiping men, which Topix atheists do, I haveone question I would like them to answer.

Given that every government has a chief executive, a top dog that runs it, even democracies, I would like to know what man or woman alive today would they trust their lives and happiness to by giving them absolute authority over such. Such an individual, or small group of individuals, will determine morals, correct thinking, and all other aspects deemed NECESSARY at the time for smooth social advancement. Those leaders will be answerable only to themselves.

Who is their Superhero?
Spider-Man.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#169650 Jun 22, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>Poor baby.

You are so victimized.

Sob.

Did "they" also make you into the buffoon that you are?

Or did your god do that?
It's that "head vs. wall" mentality of Dave's.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#169651 Jun 22, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I'm impressed you were able to break free after so long. I got out early. When I was in sunday school one day, I decided to ask my teacher if jesus had sinned when he got angry and broke up the money changers market - since anger was a sin. Silence. Granted, a more formidable theological mind could have probably set my mind at ease (he could have told me about the "good anger" of righteous indignation), but that reaction was enough to sow the seeds of doubt early.
Your reacted to an old book in your youth. It being the only religion or spiritual education you knew your reaction was focused on that religion and portrayal of the spiritual world. You were unable to view existence and spiritual matters outside that paradigm, so your reaction became not just a denial of that religion, but of existence beyond this physical. You went off into the wilderness blind, so to speak.

Don't feel alone. You, I, and countless millions or billions did the same thing. Reaction to the only thing you were taught which blinded you to other possibilities. Kind of stuck on stupid. So you defaulted to the "scientism" religion.

Here is a fact.

If your religious training was based upon The Book of Einstein and you detected inconsistencies and errors like you did in the Bible, you would be railing against science right now.

There is middle ground.

Be skeptical about everything.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#169652 Jun 22, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
But you have no trouble worshipping god.
How ironic.
I am sure you thought that was a profound observation.

Takes a lifetime for a god to disappoint you, Batty. It takes considerably less for people to.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#169653 Jun 22, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
Forgive me for asking, but where is the evidence? I have not seen any evidence so far that can convince me that the God of the Bible exists. Everything I have read feels like a farce. I read Lewis's book Mere Christianity, and to me it felt like something hollow and artificial.
So far, this God figure has not made any attempts at all to show himself to us since the past 2000 years, if indeed he did at all. Why not? If people are in such a need to know he exists, why does he not appear before them? Why need someone else to tell us that God exists?
God is alive on earth today and is just waiting for the right moment to burst upon the stage. Jesus is not God, he is dead. The God of Israel is the living God and earth is the "land of the living". God made her first appearance almost 30 years ago and ended the cold war. Do you remember the "50 foot shrunken apple head woman"?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#169654 Jun 22, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>God is alive on earth today and is just waiting for the right moment to burst upon the stage. Jesus is not God, he is dead. The God of Israel is the living God and earth is the "land of the living". God made her first appearance almost 30 years ago and ended the cold war. Do you remember the "50 foot shrunken apple head woman"?
Poe.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#169655 Jun 22, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I'm impressed you were able to break free after so long. I got out early. When I was in sunday school one day, I decided to ask my teacher if jesus had sinned when he got angry and broke up the money changers market - since anger was a sin. Silence. Granted, a more formidable theological mind could have probably set my mind at ease (he could have told me about the "good anger" of righteous indignation), but that reaction was enough to sow the seeds of doubt early.
Anger is not a sin, it is a natural reaction and an emotion. We cannot control the way we feel. But the way we respond to that anger we can control. God is "slow to anger" and doesn't let it rule her spirit.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#169656 Jun 22, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Anger is not a sin, it is a natural reaction and an emotion. We cannot control the way we feel. But the way we respond to that anger we can control. God is "slow to anger" and doesn't let it rule her spirit.
Yet, your bibles say that all other such "natural reactions" are sins. Funny that.
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#169657 Jun 22, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet, your bibles say that all other such "natural reactions" are sins. Funny that.
The NT says that, I am not a Christian. The seven deadly sins are: 1) Any sin against Gods' person 2) Any type of abuse or neglect of a child 3) Murder 4) Rape 5) Kidnapping 6) Paying or taking a bribe 7) False witness or swearing falsely by the name of God.
Favorite Adversary

New York, NY

#169658 Jun 22, 2013
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>I'm impressed you were able to break free after so long. I got out early. When I was in sunday school one day, I decided to ask my teacher if jesus had sinned when he got angry and broke up the money changers market - since anger was a sin. Silence. Granted, a more formidable theological mind could have probably set my mind at ease (he could have told me about the "good anger" of righteous indignation), but that reaction was enough to sow the seeds of doubt early.
Therein is the problem in the church. Power. Not power over individuals minds per se (unless we're talking about Jehovah's Witnesses or other heretic cults). Among fundamentalist congregations, pastors often don't have the required education themselves and receive their ordination or credentials from a diploma mill as opposed to an accredited seminary or theological school. This problem seems to filter right down to Sunday school teachers who quite often are trusted laypersons within the congregation with very little theological education. The congregation is subject to the politics and comfort of the pastor. If the pastor isn't secure in his knowledge then he will stay with what he's comfortable with, and likewise, will try to keep his congregation "safe." This is comparable to the parent that won't let their child learn how to cross the street safely out of fear they'll be struck by a car. It's incredibly short sighted. Your question could have (and should have) been answered immediately with theological soundness.

Jesus overturned the money changers tables for more than one reason. It's a well known fact that rabbis in Jesus' time committed the entire Torah to memory, and they knew the verses and passages backwards and forwards, night or day, in any weather, etc, etc. In other words, they were experts in what the Torah said in black and white. What confused them was the way Jesus applied the scriptures. He often combined phrases and passages through his actions.

Caiaphas was the Roman installed High Priest that year. This is consistent with Roman practices of letting locals maintain positions of power in their communities so long as Rome's interests were served best. Caiaphas and his family were in charge of the Temple and the vendors there who sold sacrificial animals. There was price gouging and unethical rate exchanges going on. Jesus rode into Jerusalem on Palm Sunday. He entered from the Mount of Olives on a donkey. This is important, and the rabbis and other religious leaders knew this. It's importance comes from the prophecy of Zechariah 14: verses 4 and 21.(4)"And on that day, his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem." (21)"And on that day there will no longer be traders in the Temple of the Lord."

Jesus was conveying different messages simultaneously here.

1)He was condemning the corruption of the religious-political leaders and making a statement that this judgement was coming from God. He was claiming divinity and the right to judge Israel, it's religious leadership, and the hearts of individuals.

2)The outer court of the Temple was for Gentiles. Gentiles were treated as a lower class by the religious leaders, much as fundamentalists do to unbelievers today. This was (and still is) wrong, and Jesus was ending it. Pagans and Gentiles were not allowed beyond the outer courtyard. When Jesus turned the tables (the origin of the saying) He was sending a loud message to the arrogance of the religious leaders: "The way is open for all to come to me!" You can imagine how the ruling party of the religious leaders would have reacted.

3)Jesus knew this event would seal His fate. He did this for that reason also. Because from that point on, the Pharisees were committed to killing him before Passover. They had to act immediately because the Romans would brutally suppress any form of insurrection, and the Pharisees were granted authority by Rome to maintain the peace, or Rome would.
Favorite Adversary

New York, NY

#169659 Jun 22, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no such thing as god. If you disagree, you need to provide proof.
You've had since the biggining of recorded time itself to prove that you are not liars.
You've failed. How long do you think you can go on lying to people about god, before people wise up and demand proof?
What constitutes proof? What kind of God would act according to the whims and demands of a mere mortal human?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#169660 Jun 22, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
What constitutes proof? What kind of God would act according to the whims and demands of a mere mortal human?
What kind of god would entrust these mere mortals with the duty of passing on it's words?

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