Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#169577 Jun 21, 2013
saidI wrote:
<quoted text>
So horrible what people can do; God loving adults at that. I never read past the first two pages of the bible. What I've learnt on here of what the book says I'm glad I never read it. Certainly amazes me. The idea of re-reading until it's memorised, OSG (oh someones God)!
I was married to a Belfast man, a Prod. He had the fear of God beaten into him, his Father didn't hit him but the lovely religious people did! he doesn't believe these days. One day he was standing outside a shop when he heard a dull thud, then a persons head went rolling down the gutter. The thud was a bomb blast. Very sad seeing what such religious people can do to each other.
I’ve read it 3 times, plus chapters, verses etc several times, I did some work on the authenticity of the babble during my first years at uni. All you need to realise is that it is a story book, full of holes, contradictions lies and atrocities that a good christian Jew or Moslim is skilled at filtering out.

Consider that the abrahamic god was the first recorded mass murderer by exterminating the entire human race (bar for 8 people), the first recorded child murderer by killing the Egyptian first born. He advocated slavery, rape and prostitution, gods word –

“as for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves”.

Such a role model, but it makes it easy to see why there are so many religious people suffering from funny mental ism.

“I started out with nothing”

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#169578 Jun 21, 2013
bONGO wrote:
<quoted text> all the Frenchman had you?
Can we assume you are christian?

Your lying BS seem to suggest it.
bONGO

Coram, NY

#169579 Jun 21, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Can we assume you are christian?
Your lying BS seem to suggest it.
Can we assume you are large and promiscuous
Thinking

London, UK

#169581 Jun 21, 2013
How would that even be possible?
bONGO wrote:
<quoted text> all the Frenchman had you?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#169582 Jun 21, 2013
Getting back to the topic of this thread, I don't see how skepticism requires any faith.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#169583 Jun 21, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>
Home schooled.
There are actually two types of home schoolers. One type home schools because they don't like what is being taught in the schools. The other type doesn't like the fact that the schools aren't teaching enough.

Religious home schoolers tend to do so because they don't want their children exposed to opposing ideas. They want to re-enforce their particular viewpoint and keep their children from really learning about the variety of ways of looking at the world.

In contrast, the non-religious home schoolers tend to do so because they don't like how watered down the curriculum has become over the years. In contrast to the religious type, the non-religious type wants the children to learn *more*, not less.

My ex-wife and I home schooled our daughter until she was ready for high school (when our daughter said she would prefer to go to the public school for the social aspects). By the time she was 12, my daughter was reading and understanding Plato and Shakespeare. She could write a well-reasoned research paper and asked for a book on reptile surgery for her 13th birthday. She has one more year of high school and hopes to become a veterinarian.

Not all home schoolers are poorly schooled. Most are, but not all. Much depends on the motivations and education of the parents.

Since: Sep 10

San Francisco, CA

#169584 Jun 21, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
My early life was somewhat different, I went to church because my parents were (they are not now) CofE christian and expected me to be indoctrinated in the same way. However I am dyslexic, i.e. not perfect as god made us (according to the congregation) and so was treated as a second class child, mocked and ridiculed because I was unable to read from the babble. Such treatment is quite traumatic to a child and when I was diagnosed (age 14) the huge weight of christian oppression was lifted. The church lost me (and my parents) for their callus, bordering on brutal behaviour.
I have since been subject to and seen first hand what true christian love does to a person. My aunt lost an arm and I was (not seriously but quite painfully) injured in the IRA bombing of Manchester. Christians attempted to kill my children by tipping their pushchair in front of a moving bus (and escaped into a church where the priest denied all knowledge of them). I have several other stories both personal and general of such christian love.
Funnily enough my old vicar tracked me down recently (25 years after events) to apologise and asked me to rejoin his flock. Can you guess the reply he got?
The point of all this is that I don’t really have any objection to religion, nor to the majority of christians who for the most part are decent human beings,(my best friend sits about as high in the BAC church as a woman can get). Religion can be a comfort to those who practice it. What I object to is the lies and twisted morality that some few twisted head cases spew in the name of their god. Just like in all religions christianity spawns a small group of fanatics, haters, liars, terrorist, murderers (including child murder) and even genocide that they justify by hiding behind there god. Topix has more than is share.
Excellent post, Christine.

I agree with you in all respects.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#169585 Jun 21, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
There are actually two types of home schoolers. One type home schools because they don't like what is being taught in the schools. The other type doesn't like the fact that the schools aren't teaching enough.
Religious home schoolers tend to do so because they don't want their children exposed to opposing ideas. They want to re-enforce their particular viewpoint and keep their children from really learning about the variety of ways of looking at the world.
In contrast, the non-religious home schoolers tend to do so because they don't like how watered down the curriculum has become over the years. In contrast to the religious type, the non-religious type wants the children to learn *more*, not less.
My ex-wife and I home schooled our daughter until she was ready for high school (when our daughter said she would prefer to go to the public school for the social aspects). By the time she was 12, my daughter was reading and understanding Plato and Shakespeare. She could write a well-reasoned research paper and asked for a book on reptile surgery for her 13th birthday. She has one more year of high school and hopes to become a veterinarian.
Not all home schoolers are poorly schooled. Most are, but not all. Much depends on the motivations and education of the parents.
Interesting and a post well worth reading.

I was beginning to get the impression that home-schooling had a far less positive image in the USA than in the UK. Nice to know it is done successfully there too.

Well-done to you and your bright family and thanks for sharing that.
(No reply necessary)
susanblange

Norfolk, VA

#169586 Jun 21, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
I’ve read it 3 times, plus chapters, verses etc several times, I did some work on the authenticity of the babble during my first years at uni. All you need to realise is that it is a story book, full of holes, contradictions lies and atrocities that a good christian Jew or Moslim is skilled at filtering out.
Consider that the abrahamic god was the first recorded mass murderer by exterminating the entire human race (bar for 8 people), the first recorded child murderer by killing the Egyptian first born. He advocated slavery, rape and prostitution, gods word –
“as for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves”.
Such a role model, but it makes it easy to see why there are so many religious people suffering from funny mental ism.
Humanity was killed in Noahs' flood because they were wicked. Pharoah caused the judgment of the death of the firstborn to fall upon himself by plotting to kill the first born of Israel. If you want to play hardball, God can play hardball.
Anthony Blake

Dural, Australia

#169587 Jun 21, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep invoking Jesus' name in vain, while disregarding His teachings.
Matthew 7:15-20 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them."
It's all about you, isn't it Clownie? Not about Jesus at all. False prophet. Blasphemer.
I like this guy that is disapproving all T towns comments
Dooma

Dural, Australia

#169588 Jun 21, 2013
I once used the Bible to start my fire...

come at me with your religious shit...

Hehehehe

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#169589 Jun 21, 2013
susanblange wrote:
<quoted text>Humanity was killed in Noahs' flood because they were wicked. Pharoah caused the judgment of the death of the firstborn to fall upon himself by plotting to kill the first born of Israel. If you want to play hardball, God can play hardball.
...and he'll slaughter any innocent baby who gets in his way.

The god of the bible is a sociopath.

“And I won't watch this anymore”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

#169590 Jun 21, 2013
Let's remember, however, that the men who wrote the Bible were looking to control and use people-and what better way to do that than by claiming moral superiority in the name of this God figure?

Humans have been using the name of God and other religious figures to approve of dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#169591 Jun 21, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
Let's remember, however, that the men who wrote the Bible were looking to control and use people-and what better way to do that than by claiming moral superiority in the name of this God figure?
Humans have been using the name of God and other religious figures to approve of dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.
Versus the idiot boys and girls getting on here claiming moral superiority in the name of mankind to approve dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.

I find it very difficult to worship mankind, and impossible to worship any man.

But perhaps you can.
Favorite Adversary

New York, NY

#169592 Jun 21, 2013
wilderide wrote:
Getting back to the topic of this thread, I don't see how skepticism requires any faith.
Since God can neither be proven nor disproven by humanity, it requires some kind of faith to believe either way. If you don't believe in God, there are reasons to support that conclusion, but you're not 100% certain at all times. The only way to know or believe there is a God is to have an experience that defies all competing arguments. Short of that, it's all a matter of faith for both sides.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#169593 Jun 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Versus the idiot boys and girls getting on here claiming moral superiority in the name of mankind to approve dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.
I find it very difficult to worship mankind, and impossible to worship any man.
But perhaps you can.
A Wo man is lifted up to there.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...

“And I won't watch this anymore”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

#169594 Jun 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Versus the idiot boys and girls getting on here claiming moral superiority in the name of mankind to approve dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.
I find it very difficult to worship mankind, and impossible to worship any man.
But perhaps you can.
Indeed, humans have been responsible for many atrocious deeds throughout history and humans also have a bad habit of not respecting their fellow species-aka, animals. Look at how badly we've treated them. But that is a story for another day.

I do not worship mankind, I only watch everything that humans do. I'm more or less a spectator who remarks on the world around me. I do not sit back when people are being hurt, however. I'd rather help than sit back and do nothing. My words have a greater life to me so I use them. I am a writer, you see, so to me words are the most powerful tools we can use to further our knowledge.

I have just been frustrated with certain people on other forums who have been nasty to me when I did nothing to provoke them at all. But I am prepared to let that matter go.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#169595 Jun 21, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
Since God can neither be proven nor disproven by humanity, it requires some kind of faith to believe either way. If you don't believe in God, there are reasons to support that conclusion, but you're not 100% certain at all times. The only way to know or believe there is a God is to have an experience that defies all competing arguments. Short of that, it's all a matter of faith for both sides.
*jumps back in shock*

A substantive post on Topix with a thoughtful reply! OMG! Prayers DO work! Lol.

Anyway, to your response: There is a difference between declaring that there are no gods of any kind. I agree that would be just as presumptive as those who believe in one or more without objective evidence. But to say that there seems to be no evidence for any deity, and certainly none for those proposed by other people/cultures, doesn't require any faith. It's theoretically possible that invisible unicorns exist, but simply not believing in any because there is no positive evidence for them doesn't require faith.
xianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#169596 Jun 21, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
Since God can neither be proven nor disproven by humanity, it requires some kind of faith to believe either way. If you don't believe in God, there are reasons to support that conclusion, but you're not 100% certain at all times. The only way to know or believe there is a God is to have an experience that defies all competing arguments. Short of that, it's all a matter of faith for both sides.
no faith needed once you define what god is

www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm
Favorite Adversary

New York, NY

#169597 Jun 21, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
*jumps back in shock*
A substantive post on Topix with a thoughtful reply! OMG! Prayers DO work! Lol.
Anyway, to your response: There is a difference between declaring that there are no gods of any kind. I agree that would be just as presumptive as those who believe in one or more without objective evidence. But to say that there seems to be no evidence for any deity, and certainly none for those proposed by other people/cultures, doesn't require any faith. It's theoretically possible that invisible unicorns exist, but simply not believing in any because there is no positive evidence for them doesn't require faith.
Oh I understand what you're saying, but I do believe it's a matter of faith either way. Perhaps "faith" isn't the correct word to be debating. Think on this if you will:

Confidence in Probability

I don't know if this is an existing term or not,(if not, you heard it from me first- lol)but allow me to explain my position.

If you're an atheist, and you don't believe there's a God (any God) then there must be a reason. It can be an experiential reason (such as the case with Christine M - my condolences on the way you were treated Christine) or, because the atheist places more priority on other subjects such as science or philosophy, or a combination of both. The atheist consciously makes a choice to not believe based upon his or her respective confidence in competing thoughts, and/or negative experiences within a specific context in their lives.

Likewise, if one is a theist (Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc.) then one also may have a positive experience or find sufficient evidence to make a conscious choice to believe. Again, the choice is influenced by the experiential and/or evidence.

It all comes down to individual priority and confidence in probability. I find there is sufficient evidence to enjoy confidence in the probability that there is a God (yes, the Christian God), while you do not.

Faith is the word used, but in the final analysis, it's how much confidence we have in the probability and it's based upon choice that is rooted in experiences both good and bad.

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