Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

There are 238923 comments on the Webbunny tumblelog story from Jul 18, 2009, titled Atheism requires as much faith as religion?. In it, Webbunny tumblelog reports that:

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: Sep 08

Olney Springs, CO

#169591 Jun 21, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
Let's remember, however, that the men who wrote the Bible were looking to control and use people-and what better way to do that than by claiming moral superiority in the name of this God figure?
Humans have been using the name of God and other religious figures to approve of dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.
Versus the idiot boys and girls getting on here claiming moral superiority in the name of mankind to approve dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.

I find it very difficult to worship mankind, and impossible to worship any man.

But perhaps you can.
Favorite Adversary

New York, NY

#169592 Jun 21, 2013
wilderide wrote:
Getting back to the topic of this thread, I don't see how skepticism requires any faith.
Since God can neither be proven nor disproven by humanity, it requires some kind of faith to believe either way. If you don't believe in God, there are reasons to support that conclusion, but you're not 100% certain at all times. The only way to know or believe there is a God is to have an experience that defies all competing arguments. Short of that, it's all a matter of faith for both sides.

“ Knight Of Hyrule”

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#169593 Jun 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Versus the idiot boys and girls getting on here claiming moral superiority in the name of mankind to approve dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.
I find it very difficult to worship mankind, and impossible to worship any man.
But perhaps you can.
A Wo man is lifted up to there.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons...

“My name is Trunks...”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

#169594 Jun 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Versus the idiot boys and girls getting on here claiming moral superiority in the name of mankind to approve dozens of vile and dastardly deeds.
I find it very difficult to worship mankind, and impossible to worship any man.
But perhaps you can.
Indeed, humans have been responsible for many atrocious deeds throughout history and humans also have a bad habit of not respecting their fellow species-aka, animals. Look at how badly we've treated them. But that is a story for another day.

I do not worship mankind, I only watch everything that humans do. I'm more or less a spectator who remarks on the world around me. I do not sit back when people are being hurt, however. I'd rather help than sit back and do nothing. My words have a greater life to me so I use them. I am a writer, you see, so to me words are the most powerful tools we can use to further our knowledge.

I have just been frustrated with certain people on other forums who have been nasty to me when I did nothing to provoke them at all. But I am prepared to let that matter go.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#169595 Jun 21, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
Since God can neither be proven nor disproven by humanity, it requires some kind of faith to believe either way. If you don't believe in God, there are reasons to support that conclusion, but you're not 100% certain at all times. The only way to know or believe there is a God is to have an experience that defies all competing arguments. Short of that, it's all a matter of faith for both sides.
*jumps back in shock*

A substantive post on Topix with a thoughtful reply! OMG! Prayers DO work! Lol.

Anyway, to your response: There is a difference between declaring that there are no gods of any kind. I agree that would be just as presumptive as those who believe in one or more without objective evidence. But to say that there seems to be no evidence for any deity, and certainly none for those proposed by other people/cultures, doesn't require any faith. It's theoretically possible that invisible unicorns exist, but simply not believing in any because there is no positive evidence for them doesn't require faith.
xianity is EVIL

Halifax, Canada

#169596 Jun 21, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>
Since God can neither be proven nor disproven by humanity, it requires some kind of faith to believe either way. If you don't believe in God, there are reasons to support that conclusion, but you're not 100% certain at all times. The only way to know or believe there is a God is to have an experience that defies all competing arguments. Short of that, it's all a matter of faith for both sides.
no faith needed once you define what god is

www.evilbible.com/Impossible.htm
Favorite Adversary

New York, NY

#169597 Jun 21, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
*jumps back in shock*
A substantive post on Topix with a thoughtful reply! OMG! Prayers DO work! Lol.
Anyway, to your response: There is a difference between declaring that there are no gods of any kind. I agree that would be just as presumptive as those who believe in one or more without objective evidence. But to say that there seems to be no evidence for any deity, and certainly none for those proposed by other people/cultures, doesn't require any faith. It's theoretically possible that invisible unicorns exist, but simply not believing in any because there is no positive evidence for them doesn't require faith.
Oh I understand what you're saying, but I do believe it's a matter of faith either way. Perhaps "faith" isn't the correct word to be debating. Think on this if you will:

Confidence in Probability

I don't know if this is an existing term or not,(if not, you heard it from me first- lol)but allow me to explain my position.

If you're an atheist, and you don't believe there's a God (any God) then there must be a reason. It can be an experiential reason (such as the case with Christine M - my condolences on the way you were treated Christine) or, because the atheist places more priority on other subjects such as science or philosophy, or a combination of both. The atheist consciously makes a choice to not believe based upon his or her respective confidence in competing thoughts, and/or negative experiences within a specific context in their lives.

Likewise, if one is a theist (Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc.) then one also may have a positive experience or find sufficient evidence to make a conscious choice to believe. Again, the choice is influenced by the experiential and/or evidence.

It all comes down to individual priority and confidence in probability. I find there is sufficient evidence to enjoy confidence in the probability that there is a God (yes, the Christian God), while you do not.

Faith is the word used, but in the final analysis, it's how much confidence we have in the probability and it's based upon choice that is rooted in experiences both good and bad.

“My name is Trunks...”

Since: Jun 10

the alternate future

#169598 Jun 21, 2013
Forgive me for asking, but where is the evidence? I have not seen any evidence so far that can convince me that the God of the Bible exists. Everything I have read feels like a farce. I read Lewis's book Mere Christianity, and to me it felt like something hollow and artificial.

So far, this God figure has not made any attempts at all to show himself to us since the past 2000 years, if indeed he did at all. Why not? If people are in such a need to know he exists, why does he not appear before them? Why need someone else to tell us that God exists?

Since: Sep 08

Olney Springs, CO

#169599 Jun 21, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed, humans have been responsible for many atrocious deeds throughout history and humans also have a bad habit of not respecting their fellow species-aka, animals. Look at how badly we've treated them. But that is a story for another day.
I do not worship mankind, I only watch everything that humans do. I'm more or less a spectator who remarks on the world around me. I do not sit back when people are being hurt, however. I'd rather help than sit back and do nothing. My words have a greater life to me so I use them. I am a writer, you see, so to me words are the most powerful tools we can use to further our knowledge.
I have just been frustrated with certain people on other forums who have been nasty to me when I did nothing to provoke them at all. But I am prepared to let that matter go.
People get sensitized and reactive when they are called idiots and names for their beliefs. That is why I react to these Topix atheist idiots. I started out and made a mistake of not calling theists idiots and they jumped on me. They made me do it.

But, back to worshiping men, which Topix atheists do, I haveone question I would like them to answer.

Given that every government has a chief executive, a top dog that runs it, even democracies, I would like to know what man or woman alive today would they trust their lives and happiness to by giving them absolute authority over such. Such an individual, or small group of individuals, will determine morals, correct thinking, and all other aspects deemed NECESSARY at the time for smooth social advancement. Those leaders will be answerable only to themselves.

Who is their Superhero?

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#169600 Jun 21, 2013
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>

Faith is the word used, but in the final analysis, it's how much confidence we have in the probability and it's based upon choice that is rooted in experiences both good and bad.
More specifically, it depends on what type of information one places their confidence in. An atheist or agnostic will presumably be relying on objective and repeatably testable evidence which is falsifiable (i.e., scientific method, or something like that). A theist will be placing their confidence in their feelings, intuition, and tradition.

“Credulity is not a virtue”

Since: Apr 09

San Francisco

#169601 Jun 21, 2013
Lelouch0 wrote:
Forgive me for asking, but where is the evidence? I have not seen any evidence so far that can convince me that the God of the Bible exists. Everything I have read feels like a farce. I read Lewis's book Mere Christianity, and to me it felt like something hollow and artificial.
So far, this God figure has not made any attempts at all to show himself to us since the past 2000 years, if indeed he did at all. Why not? If people are in such a need to know he exists, why does he not appear before them? Why need someone else to tell us that God exists?
If you seek God, you will find it. Actually, you will find any god you seek.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#169602 Jun 21, 2013
What if you were raised in a society that has no god? Where god is never even mentioned in any way shape or form?

Your argument fails.
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>Oh I understand what you're saying, but I do believe it's a matter of faith either way. Perhaps "faith" isn't the correct word to be debating. Think on this if you will:

Confidence in Probability

I don't know if this is an existing term or not,(if not, you heard it from me first- lol)but allow me to explain my position.

If you're an atheist, and you don't believe there's a God (any God) then there must be a reason. It can be an experiential reason (such as the case with Christine M - my condolences on the way you were treated Christine) or, because the atheist places more priority on other subjects such as science or philosophy, or a combination of both. The atheist consciously makes a choice to not believe based upon his or her respective confidence in competing thoughts, and/or negative experiences within a specific context in their lives.

Likewise, if one is a theist (Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc.) then one also may have a positive experience or find sufficient evidence to make a conscious choice to believe. Again, the choice is influenced by the experiential and/or evidence.

It all comes down to individual priority and confidence in probability. I find there is sufficient evidence to enjoy confidence in the probability that there is a God (yes, the Christian God), while you do not.

Faith is the word used, but in the final analysis, it's how much confidence we have in the probability and it's based upon choice that is rooted in experiences both good and bad.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#169603 Jun 21, 2013
As society grew more literate and able to better pass along information and data god seems to have vanished.

He can't appear now because he is camera shy and fears TMZ.
Lelouch0 wrote:
Forgive me for asking, but where is the evidence? I have not seen any evidence so far that can convince me that the God of the Bible exists. Everything I have read feels like a farce. I read Lewis's book Mere Christianity, and to me it felt like something hollow and artificial.

So far, this God figure has not made any attempts at all to show himself to us since the past 2000 years, if indeed he did at all. Why not? If people are in such a need to know he exists, why does he not appear before them? Why need someone else to tell us that God exists?
Favorite Adversary

New York, NY

#169604 Jun 21, 2013
wilderide wrote:
<quoted text>
More specifically, it depends on what type of information one places their confidence in. An atheist or agnostic will presumably be relying on objective and repeatably testable evidence which is falsifiable (i.e., scientific method, or something like that). A theist will be placing their confidence in their feelings, intuition, and tradition.
Not always. Some of us (myself specifically) are convinced by the historical evidence. Intuition does play a part of it without a doubt. But I don't trust human emotions as a general rule. They can be very misleading.

Intuition is that small voice that speaks to us inaudibly. It speaks to us on a different level than that of emotion. The same goes for our conscience. I'm sure you'll disagree, saying that it's all a product of chemical reactions within the human brain. I disagree, but I'll leave that debate for another day. It's been an interesting dialogue. Thank you.=)

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#169605 Jun 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
They made me do it.
Poor baby.

You are so victimized.

Sob.

Did "they" also make you into the buffoon that you are?

Or did your god do that?

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

#169606 Jun 21, 2013
What historical evidence would that be?
Favorite Adversary wrote:
<quoted text>Not always. Some of us (myself specifically) are convinced by the historical evidence. Intuition does play a part of it without a doubt. But I don't trust human emotions as a general rule. They can be very misleading.

Intuition is that small voice that speaks to us inaudibly. It speaks to us on a different level than that of emotion. The same goes for our conscience. I'm sure you'll disagree, saying that it's all a product of chemical reactions within the human brain. I disagree, but I'll leave that debate for another day. It's been an interesting dialogue. Thank you.=)

Since: Sep 08

Olney Springs, CO

#169607 Jun 21, 2013
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Poor baby.
You are so victimized.
Sob.
Did "they" also make you into the buffoon that you are?
Or did your god do that?
Are you on the rag today? Noticed you have an sharper edge than usual here and on the other thread. You do this periodically.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#169608 Jun 21, 2013
Dave Nelson wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you on the rag today? Noticed you have an sharper edge than usual here and on the other thread. You do this periodically.
Thank you. You are observant, but a bit off on the cause.

I had some serious success this week.

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#169611 Jun 21, 2013
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>LOL. ;)

One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.

Wilson runs a nail factory and decides his business needs a bit of advertising. He has a chat with a friend who works in marketing and he offers to make a TV ad for Wilson's Nails.

"Give me a week," says the friend, "and I'll be back with a tape."

A week goes by and the marketing executive comes to see Wilson. He puts a cassette in the video and presses play. A Roman soldier is busy nailing Jesus to the cross. He turns to face the camera and says with a grin "Use Wilson's Nails, they'll hold anything."

Wilson goes mad shouting: "What is the matter with you? They'll never show that on TV. Give it another try, but no more Romans crucifying Jesus!"

Another week goes by and the marketing man comes back to see Wilson with another tape. He puts it in the machine and hits play. This time the camera pans out from a Roman standing with his arms folded to show Jesus on the cross. The Roman looks up at him and says 'Wilson's Nails, they'll hold anything'.

Wilson is beside himself. "You don't understand: I don't want anything with Jesus on the cross! Now listen, I'll give you one last chance. Come back in a week with an advertisement that I can broadcast."

A week passes and Wilson waits impatiently. The marketing executive arrives and puts on the new video. A naked man with long hair, gasping for breath, is running across a field. About a dozen Roman soldiers come over the hill, hot on his trail. One of them turns to camera and says 'If only we had used Wilson's Nails!'.
I'd go with the last one.

“Exercise Your Brain”

Since: Jun 07

Planet Earth

#169612 Jun 21, 2013
The Almighty Tzar wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, your weird.
My weird what?

your = possessive case of you used as an attributive adjective

you're = a contraction of you are

An illiterate tzar, who would have thought it?

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