Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

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Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent.

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Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

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#166199
May 28, 2013
 
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> thank you for the interesting reply. I think that many people who suffer have more reason to believe in God because they believe in an afterlife where everything will be made right and for a much longer time. They also need to think that everything that happens in this life is for a reason, and a part of a good plan of a good God, which is one that will save them in an afterlife (and often they like to think that people who disagree with them on religion, but are not suffering now, will go to hell later and suffer more). Many of them rush to churches after disasters, and listen to sermons who preach that message. And many in Oklahoma probably have voted for Senator Inhofe, who has done more to oppose restrictions on carbon pollution than anyone else in politics. If this world turns into a hot "hell" for their living grandchildren, never mind, God will fix it somehow, or get them all into heaven. Meanwhile the rest of life on earth will live horrid lives with disasters. These wild religious types will think that is God's punishment for legalization of gay marriage or something, and OK.
again, i find myself agreeing with you on pretty much everythingyousaid. many people do go to church for comfort, and a number of people try to view bad things that happen as Gods punishment for things. personally, even though i do have the belief that God judges sin, i think its stupid and hateful to just up and blame gays for hurricanes or abortions for earthquakes or whatever stupid things some christians say. one of my best friends is gay, and even though i want him healthy and care for his wellbeing, i would never in a trillion years blame him for a single incident of global harm. plus, i think that its foolish to believe that God will fix EVERYTHING that we humans mess up. we have to take responsability for our actions and do our part. now, i think the reasons people believe vary, and oi respect most of the reasons, although some resons are more valid than others. i think that discussions on God and faith are important, and are a big part of peoples everyday lives and life long world views. thats why im here. i like talking about these things and getting a feel for the world as we view it

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

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#166200
May 28, 2013
 
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> thank you for the interesting reply. I think that many people who suffer have more reason to believe in God because they believe in an afterlife where everything will be made right and for a much longer time. They also need to think that everything that happens in this life is for a reason, and a part of a good plan of a good God, which is one that will save them in an afterlife (and often they like to think that people who disagree with them on religion, but are not suffering now, will go to hell later and suffer more). Many of them rush to churches after disasters, and listen to sermons who preach that message. And many in Oklahoma probably have voted for Senator Inhofe, who has done more to oppose restrictions on carbon pollution than anyone else in politics. If this world turns into a hot "hell" for their living grandchildren, never mind, God will fix it somehow, or get them all into heaven. Meanwhile the rest of life on earth will live horrid lives with disasters. These wild religious types will think that is God's punishment for legalization of gay marriage or something, and OK.
you have a way of thining that i can appreciate. these are the kind of discussions i like. they brighten my day. thanks for that.

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

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#166201
May 28, 2013
 

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blacklagoon wrote:
<quoted text>He certainly was right about religion poisoning EVERYTHING!!!!
Glad we have other brilliant people to demonstrate the metal illness that accompanies religion, like Sam Harris.
I see you are still a Jesus Christ! christian hater...

“YO BOO”

Since: Sep 07

land of BOO

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#166202
May 28, 2013
 

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Believe and recieve!!! doubt and do without!!
Imhotep

Mocksville, NC

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#166203
May 28, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitchens was a great speaker and a great man, he is missed. Like Plato he will be remembered for as long as humans continue to exist.
Take a gander at this site.
Robert Green Ingersoll was a fantastic orator.
He was called the great agnostic

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/ro...

Excerpt

For many years I have regarded the Pentateuch simply as a
record of a barbarous people, in which are found a great number of
the ceremonies of savagery, many absurd and unjust laws, and
thousands of ideas inconsistent with known and demonstrated facts.
To me it seemed almost a crime to teach that this record was
written by inspired men; that slavery, polygamy, wars of conquest
and extermination were right, and that there was a time when men
could win the approbation of infinite Intelligence, Justice, and
Mercy, by violating maidens and by butchering babes. To me it
seemed more reasonable that savage men had made these laws; and I
endeavored in a lecture, entitled "Some Mistakes of Moses," to
point out some of the errors, contradictions, and impossibilities
contained in the Pentateuch. The lecture was never written and
consequently never delivered twice the same. On several occasions
it was reported and published without consent, and without
revision. All these publications were grossly and glaringly
incorrect. As published, they have been answered several hundred
times, and many of the clergy are still engaged in the great work.
To keep these reverend gentlemen from wasting their talents on the
mistakes of reporters and printers, I concluded to publish the
principal points in all my lectures on this subject. And here, it
may be proper for one to say, that arguments cannot be answered by
personal abuse; that there is no logic in slander, and that
falsehood, in the long run, defeats itself, People who love their
enemies should, at least, tell the truth about their friends.
Should it turn out that I am the worst man in the whole world, the
story of the flood will remain just as improbable as before, and
the contradictions of the Pentateuch will still demand an
explanation.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

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#166204
May 28, 2013
 
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>so will Jesus Christ
So will Gandalf and Zeus.

Lots of fictional characters are remembered throughout time.

“Love much, trust none”

Since: Jul 11

There

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#166205
May 28, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitchens was a great speaker and a great man, he is missed. Like Plato he will be remembered for as long as humans continue to exist.
Who is Hitchens ? Is he a mythic figure known only from literature like Plato and Jesus ?

<smile>

"I am an unbiased thorn."

“ IT'S A CHOICE !!!”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

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#166206
May 28, 2013
 
Imhotep wrote:
<quoted text>
Waarom vraag je me plagen?
Je weet dat ik hou van marihuana elke kleur!
IK wist dat hij kwam in 'Goud,' IK wist niet dat dat kwam zo veel mooie kleuren ... Het lijkt bijna gespoten! Lol Heb je een leuk weekend?

:)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#166207
May 28, 2013
 

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T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>so will Jesus Christ
We have evidence that Hitchens existed though, the two are not comparable.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

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#166208
May 28, 2013
 
T-Town Clown wrote:
<quoted text>if you ask a question like that! you would understand the answer..
Code for "I don't have an answer. That I'm prepared to give, anyway."

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#166209
May 28, 2013
 
G_O_D wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is Hitchens ? Is he a mythic figure known only from literature like Plato and Jesus ?
<smile>
"I am an unbiased thorn."
For a probable fictional character though, Plato was still a bit more fascinating than Jesus. ;)

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

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#166210
May 28, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not a huge Harris fan, personally, I think he's a bit too fanatical at times. Hitchens thought out what he would say, and often stuck to the facts, while Harris seems more emotionally attached to his assertions. But, we all have our own preferences.
honestly i though hitchens was very real with what he said on a basic level. harris doesnt know how to follow logic very well and often words himself ito a corner philosophically. and even me as a christian found myself respecting the hitchman for his brutal honesty lol.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#166211
May 28, 2013
 
Ray puelerico wrote:
<quoted text>
honestly i though hitchens was very real with what he said on a basic level. harris doesnt know how to follow logic very well and often words himself ito a corner philosophically. and even me as a christian found myself respecting the hitchman for his brutal honesty lol.
Hitchens was brilliant, it's sad what he went through at the end of his life too, yet he kept on with courage and a strength few people demonstrate. You bring up the point that makes me miss his speeches most, I hold honesty above all other qualities in a human, and he was brutally honest.

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

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#166212
May 28, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitchens was brilliant, it's sad what he went through at the end of his life too, yet he kept on with courage and a strength few people demonstrate. You bring up the point that makes me miss his speeches most, I hold honesty above all other qualities in a human, and he was brutally honest.
definately. i couldnt help but respect the man even if i disagreed with him. he was honest, a great writer, very intellegent, and lets not forget his accent was awesome lol. he was a debater in his own class, something harris, loftus, or any other debater ive heard could never compare. he definately is missed. it sucks that he went the way he did. his voice was a strong one. one that again,i had much respect for.
Imhotep

Mocksville, NC

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#166213
May 28, 2013
 
Snevaeh legna wrote:
<quoted text>
IK wist dat hij kwam in 'Goud,' IK wist niet dat dat kwam zo veel mooie kleuren ... Het lijkt bijna gespoten! Lol Heb je een leuk weekend?
:)
Dat was een typo! ;(

Moeten hebben een leuk weekend gehad.

Ik ben werkzaam in de bergen deze week.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

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#166214
May 28, 2013
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitchens was brilliant, it's sad what he went through at the end of his life too, yet he kept on with courage and a strength few people demonstrate. You bring up the point that makes me miss his speeches most, I hold honesty above all other qualities in a human, and he was brutally honest.
I gotta see the ethics and the politics first, before I admire someone, however brilliant.I also want to see the style of the honesty, and make sure the brutality of it was not nasty to people who did not ask for it.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#166215
May 28, 2013
 

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T-Town Clown wrote:
Believe and recieve!!! doubt and do without!!
Scary.
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

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#166216
May 28, 2013
 

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Ray puelerico wrote:
<quoted text>
again the idea that God exists can be defended through various arguments, leaving his existance in dispute. therefor the facts arent so clear cut. so the absence of evidence can not equal evidence of absence. second, personal experience is still a viable peice of evidence unless you can come up with comprehencive defeaters of those experiences. people dont have reason to doubt personal experience of every day matters until the are presented with defeaters of those experiences. and as far as morals go,we can discuss that further if youd like. i firmly believe that morals are a pretty strong indicator of the existnce of God.
All of those various arguments involving the existence of God, are arguments without facts, so become totally worthless. The LACK of facts concerning the existence of God is very clear cut, there are none.

Of course it depends on what kind of personal experience a person has. if someone told me they were at the beach and saw a whale breaching off shore i would lean toward believing them as this is something that has certainly happened in the past on a number of occasions, and all of the elements of the story grounded in reality. Now if you told me God came down last night and spoke to you and then physically touched you on the head, I would be compelled to not believe you as none of the elements are grounded in reality. I would simply chalk it up to you having a serious delusion. The mental institutions are full of people who will swear that there are demons around every corner, would you accept these personal experiences as factual?

Mankind has been on the planet for approximately 200,000 give or take. Jesus carrying the word of God appeared a mere 2,000 years ago. Where did mankind draw his morals for some 198,000 years? Cannibalism is view by our present society as highly immoral, but not that long ago in New Guinea, it was considered appropriate and a means of drawing strength from your enemies. There are very few moral absolutes.

If one were to combine the idea that morals are an indicator for the existence of God and the writings found in the bible which are said to be the word of God, then contradictions emerge. Without going into all of the immorality found in the bible, we only have to look at the FACT that God condones slavery. Most would agree that regardless of the society, one person owning another and imposing their will on them is immoral.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#166217
May 28, 2013
 
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> I gotta see the ethics and the politics first, before I admire someone, however brilliant.I also want to see the style of the honesty, and make sure the brutality of it was not nasty to people who did not ask for it.
I have a problem with lying to anyone for any reason. I cannot do it, and thus hold anyone who is always honest in high regards because of that. I had made a career out of lying, and it weighs heavy on me now, I even lied when I was young to avoid being harmed, but now I realize that those lies also harmed me more than I would have been had I told the truth. Ethical behavior is important, but many people can lie and seem ethical because of the lie, when a person is brutally honest, you know their ethics are what they claim them to be. Politics is a mess anyway, so I disregard that completely.

Since: May 13

Hightstown, NJ

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#166218
May 28, 2013
 

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havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> I gotta see the ethics and the politics first, before I admire someone, however brilliant.I also want to see the style of the honesty, and make sure the brutality of it was not nasty to people who did not ask for it.
as a debater, hitchens was a devestating attacker. but in his liffe, he was described as a great guy. he was honest enough to make one squirm lol. i respect him for his way, although i wouldnt go as fare as to admire all his ways. that being said, ill still miss his debates.

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